Black Templar Teaser and Rumors

[Sword Brother Adelard]

Are we not getting a regular upgrade sprue for infantry? The old one is nice, but kinda expensive.

Oddly, I always thought it very good value, especially compared to the sprues other chapters have.

[Medjugorje]

Are we not getting a regular upgrade sprue for infantry? The old one is nice, but kinda expensive.

I think the value is great. So much bitz in this box.

[Medjugorje]

Warhammer Community page and Warhammer T.V. dropped our teaser video again today, could be a sign we are going to hear a bit more about the release soon. 

?? I cant see anything on the WHC page and Warhammer TV had the teaser on YT for days.

[Trignama]

 

Warhammer Community page and Warhammer T.V. dropped our teaser video again today, could be a sign we are going to hear a bit more about the release soon. 

?? I cant see anything on the WHC page and Warhammer TV had the teaser on YT for days.

 

Sorry, nothing new dropped, just a repeat of our teaser trailer. They made new posts featuring that trailer today over F.B. (and I'm assuming their other social media outlets). I'm hoping this means more news soon is all. 

[General Strike]

 

 

Are we not getting a regular upgrade sprue for infantry? The old one is nice, but kinda expensive.

I think the value is great. So much bitz in this box.

I don't see myself using half of it as a Primaris player, the boltguns and special weapons, and torsos. Plus if we are getting a vehicle sprue, I'd probably rather have that then the stuff for vehicles on this sprue?

[Medjugorje]

of course its not as good for pure Primaris players. But for all others who still use Firstbornes its great.

 

Each vehicle ( which is based on Rhinos or LR --> means all ) can be upgraded.

So much decoration for anything. Each weapon type except Thunder Hammer or newer weapons like Gravweapons.

[Sword Brother Adelard]

And you can get the rhino doors on a StormRaven and Repulsor without too much effort. I also blue stuff moulded the land raider doors to make decorations for my other models.

[Medjugorje]

I pimped my Repulsor with the old bitz too.

[Acebaur]

 

 

I highly doubt we shall see scouts in the same unit as Primaris. Just being honest here.

Why exactly? That mixture of units IS what a Crusader squad has always been and Deathwatch has already provided mixed Primaris units, so whats so unbelievable about Scouts and Primaris in one unit?

Not going to happen. Even Death-Watch, the chapter built around mixing units, doesn't allow for "Classic" and "Primaris" in the same squad.

 

Also, Scouts are trash now anyway. If I was you guys I would be expecting a whole new variant of the model with better statline and wargear. Why would I waste valuable transport space on Scouts if I can have far superior Primaris infantry. I know there is a lore and tradition here, but all these new units that are apparently coming are designed to refresh and shake things up.

 

You guys have waited a LONG time for this, and I'm excited to see what GW do because it will indicate the likely direction and quality of future chapter specific units.

 

 

The real question is why are you using transports? They aren't good right now and we are fast enough on foot. Baring an amazing buff to them in our supplement (unlikely) they will continue to be shelf warmers, especially Reluspor chassis

[Medjugorje]

 

 

 

I highly doubt we shall see scouts in the same unit as Primaris. Just being honest here.

Why exactly? That mixture of units IS what a Crusader squad has always been and Deathwatch has already provided mixed Primaris units, so whats so unbelievable about Scouts and Primaris in one unit?

Not going to happen. Even Death-Watch, the chapter built around mixing units, doesn't allow for "Classic" and "Primaris" in the same squad.

 

Also, Scouts are trash now anyway. If I was you guys I would be expecting a whole new variant of the model with better statline and wargear. Why would I waste valuable transport space on Scouts if I can have far superior Primaris infantry. I know there is a lore and tradition here, but all these new units that are apparently coming are designed to refresh and shake things up.

 

You guys have waited a LONG time for this, and I'm excited to see what GW do because it will indicate the likely direction and quality of future chapter specific units.

 

 

The real question is why are you using transports? They aren't good right now and we are fast enough on foot. Baring an amazing buff to them in our supplement (unlikely) they will continue to be shelf warmers, especially Reluspor chassis

 

because of the new secondaries. I like to play them (but like you said not at the moment because they are really bad)

[Punchomatic]

So we are anticipating a foot slog/black tide style play being the hotness?

[Tokugawa]

 

So we are anticipating a foot slog/black tide style play being the hotness?

 

 

In 9th, every melee marine chapter is foot-slogging (or hoofs slogging?). Transports are nearly extincted in competitive lists.

[redmapa]

So we are anticipating a foot slog/black tide style play being the hotness?

 

Regardless of what actually changes I think using fast moving elements and hard to shift units will remain the thing for us to focus on, our CT gives us speed to make tough units a threat and fast units can become a threat faster which is an amazing to get to mid board and limit the enemy's movement options or taking objectives. Who knows how things will change? I do hope Vows allow to personalize your army a bit like before but even if they do our Chapter Tactic pushes us into one direction so the Vows will have to mesh with that or be rubbish, or perhaps be so good they warrant a new play style but thats maybe asking for too much.

Edited July 18, 2021 by redmapa

[Sete]

I hope we have good synergy with mechanized to be fair.

[Sword Brother Adelard]

I hope we have good synergy with mechanized to be fair.

We should really. Considering that was one of our 'things'.

Ironically, the 'Black tide' was never a lore based playstyle. The lore based ones should steel rain and armoured fist, just neither of those have been a successful meta for a while.

[Medjugorje]

Same with LaPlas troops. Never was what we really wanted but we had to.

Had a game yesterday against Belakor and Mortarion + 3 Volkite Contemptors + X.  What we really need is some Stratagems that we are not dependent on our character buffs. And of course some shooting buffs - at the moment we dont have any good shooting options

[Trignama]

Personally, I'd like to see the removal of combat doctrines (and hence the super doctrine) and see it replaced with an upgraded form of shock assault and a vow system. 

As far as mechanized vs foot, I believe foot slogging will almost always be the way to go. The problem with transports, or any vehicles, in this edition or any previous one, is they are big targets, that are too soft to handle the very cheap and numerous anti-tank guns that any army can easily spam. (Exception being dreadnoughts, but even then if you don't have more than one or something else to draw AT fire, it is toast)

Assault transports will never be good unless they have an ability where the unit inside is allowed to disembark and charge after the transport moves.

Edited July 18, 2021 by Trignama

[Medjugorje]

I dont want to have buffs only if I charge or get charged. I prefer ongoing buffs like a vow which gives me reroll all hits or constantly +1 to hit or to wound.

[Blindhamster]

I dont want to have buffs only if I charge or get charged. I prefer ongoing buffs like a vow which gives me reroll all hits or constantly +1 to hit or to wound.

So just flat out better than wolves on blood angels then? :P

 

The vows are replacing "super doctrine", or maybe it'll replace doctrines entirely. I guess if it's the latter, a flat +1 to hit or wound would be okay. (i.e. you lose the better AP of doctrines but get a better version of another chapters chapter tactic), if its just a super doctrine replacement, it still needs to be "roughly" balanced against those

[Medjugorje]

the stratagem "suffer not the unclean to live" from Vigilus is +1 A and reroll wounds. I could imagine that we will get reroll wounds in general and in assault doctrine the +1 A. MAybe something very different like on 6s to wound +1 Dmg and -ap....

 

I think Vows will get us buffs which are increasing in assault doctrine. Maybe in other doctrines too.

 

btw... in 3rd edition it was +1 to wound and in 4th edition it was +1 S

Edited July 18, 2021 by Medjugorje

[Trignama]

I dont want to have buffs only if I charge or get charged. I prefer ongoing buffs like a vow which gives me reroll all hits or constantly +1 to hit or to wound.

Well, the game has to have some sort of balance, you cant just have everything all the time. I mean I want Templars to come out strong as well, but lets not get crazy lol, getting a buff on the turn you charge OR are charged is pretty good.

[Medjugorje]

why not... other marines have good psychic powers. 

Blood angels have nasty special units which hit extrem hard ( 6 attacks with +1 to wound for a normal death company marine / 7 for an intercessor DC )

 

and it was just an example. Played against a Chaos mixed list as a tournament training, it was crazy. All buffs doesnt work against this list because rerolls are not allowed and aura buffs does not. And often I count as havent charged... which means NOTHING from my army work against such lists. And I am sure we will see that kind of lists in tournaments in the future. I dont want to have a supplement for my army which I cannot use because there are armies out there I still cannot win. (btw... I won that game, but now - after he know my army and he dont have to fear my terminators - he will win each game.

Edited July 18, 2021 by Medjugorje

[Trignama]

So I think, if I was behind writing the rules, you would see something along the lines of

Shock assault Changes to Righteous Zeal 

 

+1A and -1AP when charging / are charged / perform H.I.

Chapter Tactics changes to Master Swordsman:

When in melee all attacks directed at a unit with the Black Templars key word suffer -1 to hit

Then we would have access to our 4 vows, each of which would give an army wide buff (Note you would choose one of these at the start of the game)

Suffer not the unclean to live - +1 S to the army

Uphold the honor the emperor - Army wide 6++

Abhor the witch / destroy the witch - all characters gain deny, army wide 4+ vs Mortal wounds

 

Accept any challenge no matter the odds - Army wide re-roll 1's to hit in shooting, full re-rolls in combat (Edit: thinking this one is REALLY strong, so would probably tie it to needing to bring the EC in your army to unlock this specific vow, as it would remove the need to bring a captain anyway)

You could add flavor around stratagems such as

Mechanized assault: 

2CP A unit may disembark (but note not move) and declare a charge against enemy units after it's transport has moved. 

Just one example

Some things obviously would have to be play tested for balance, and we would have to consider what rules our characters would bring to the table and this also assumes cerrtain things like the army wide 5+ vs MW's stays.

But what I'm saying is, we could easily get a unique set of rules, that has nothing to do with how chapter tactics work, and operate perfectly fine.

Edited July 18, 2021 by Trignama

[Medjugorje]

Dont forget. We still are a part of the Space Marines codex. Everything will work as usual. BA, SW, DA and DW have no changes too, just additions. So shock assault will still be the same. 

The question is what will still be there from the Index and what (and how many) additional rules will fallow.

 

that mechanized attack stratagem is something I think this could be very real.

Edited July 18, 2021 by Medjugorje

[Trignama]

Dont forget. We still are a part of the Space Marines codex. Everything will work as usual. BA, SW, DA and DW have no changes too, just additions. So shock assault will still be the same. 

The question is what will still be there from the Index and what (and how many) additional rules will fallow.

Just because something was done in the past, does not mean it will continue through the future. 

 

There is already a solid rumor that we will not have a super doctrine, and that it will be replaced with a vow system. Every one of those other supplements follows the standard super doctrine rule. So, if there is already an example of a change to a major core rule that typically all marines follow, then there may be others we do not know about. 

 

And honestly, there is no better chapter to build an off codex ruleset with, than the BT.