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So, here is the challenge --

 

 

Build a new Primaris unit that meets the following criteria:

 

 

1 - Unique in design/battlefield role from current Primaris AND First Born Marines (i.e. no Primaris Terminators, Primaris Assault Marines, etc.)

 

2 - Create a unit that is balanced in the current meta and is not an "auto-take" in competitive lists (e.g. double-shoot Aggressors before they were nerfed), but is also not so mediocre/redundant compared to other Astartes units that it is rarely used (i.e. Reivers and how they have struggled since the beginning of 8th)

 

 

That's it. We will assume the points will be balanced appropriately by GW (at least eventually), so don't worry about that, but everything else (stats, wargear, special rules, etc.) is up to you.

 

It can be a squad, a vehicle, a squad of vehicles, you name it :wink:

 

 

To kick it off, here is my entry:

 

---------

 

Space Marine "Venator Squad" -- FAST ATTACK -- (models based on the same kit as the Outriders)

 

2 Venator ------------------ M14" WS3+ BS3+ S4 T5 W4 A2 Ld7 Sv3+

1 Venator Sergeant ------ M14" WS3+ BS3+ S4 T5 W4 A3 Ld8 Sv3+

 

Each model is equipped with a Twin Neo-Volkite Rifle, Heavy Bolt Pistol, Frag/Krak Grenades, and Combat Shield

 

 

WARGEAR:

*Twin Neo-Volkite Blaster - ------ 18" Rapid Fire 2 S6 AP0 Dmg2 (Unmodified Wounds of 6 inflict a MW in addition to any other damage)

*Heavy Bolt Pistol ---------------- 18" Pistol 1 S4 AP-1 Dmg1

**Combat Shield: Improves Armor Save of bearer by +1 and grants bearer a 5++ Invulnerable Save

 

 

OPTIONS:

*Venator Sergeant may replace Heavy Bolt Pistol with a Neo-Volkite Pistol or Plasma Pistol

*Venator Sergeant may replace Heavy Bolt Pistol with a Power Fist or a Power Sword

 

 

SPECIAL Rules

*Angels of Death

*Turbo-boost

*Ravenwing (if Dark Angel or DA Successor)

*Priority Target -- After deployment, but before the first Battle Round, each Venator squad can select a single enemy Data Sheet type as a "Priority Target." Whenever that squad makes a shooting or close combat attack against its chosen "Priority Target" Data Sheet it can ignore the "Look Out, Sir!" rule, ignores any effects of cover, and it re-rolls 1s to Hit and 1s to Wound.

 

---------

 

Unique Role/Contribution to a Space Marine Army:

 

The idea behind the Venator Squad is to provide a mobile, short-medium ranged "Dragoon" type unit that put out focused anti-elite Infantry and light vehicle damage, both of which are significant threats in the current meta game. This unit has good mobility (i.e. thanks to the Outrider-style bike) and durability (i.e. T5, 4W, and the Combat Shield), but has little close combat capability (i.e. only 10 x S4 AP0 attacks on the charge, unlike the 19 x S4 AP-1 attacks on the charge of its Outrider cousins).

 

In terms of its overall design, a Venator Squad is supposed to play a "surgical strike" role that excels at taking out a specific enemy unit type (potentially including a specific enemy character type), hence the Priority Target rule. This should help differentiate its role from other mobile "shooty" units like Inceptors (deep strike and raw shooting ability), MM Attack Bikes (heavy anti-armor), Suppressors (long-ranged skirmishers), etc. It also gives you pre-game flexibility by allowing you to choose which enemy Data Sheet is the Priority Target (i.e. if there are tons of Dark Eldar Raiders, choose that; if there is a lynchpin enemy character, choose that; if you are up against a DG opponent who spams Deathshroud Terminators, choose them)

 

Finally, in terms of balancing the unit so it is not an "auto-take," capping the squad at 3 models (just like Eliminators, Suppressors, and Outriders) keeps it from becoming too powerful, with a max of 12 x Neo-Volkite shots at 9" range, requiring the squad to get quite close to its enemy in order to maximize its firepower (or, at maximum stand-off, it can try to snipe selected characters at 18" with 6 x Neo-Volkite shots, but even then it is quite close to your opponent's army).

Edited by L30n1d4s
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Unit name- storm guardian

Type- flier

 

M-48" S5 T8 BS2+ WS5+ W16 S2+

 

Armament- twin las talons (nose) 2 heavy onslaught cannons(one under each wing) 2 accelerator autocannons (wing tips)

 

The las talons can be swapped for a melta destroyer-15points

May transport 3 gravis units or 6 non gravis units.

 

Maneuvering boosters- when being targeted by a ranged attack the player may force one hit to be rerolled.

285 points

Edited by Inquisitor_Lensoven

So, here is the challenge --

 

 

Build a new Primaris unit that meets the following criteria:

 

 

1 - Unique in design/battlefield role from current Primaris AND First Born Marines (i.e. no Primaris Terminators, Primaris Assault Marines, etc.)

 

2 - Create a unit that is balanced in the current meta and is not an "auto-take" in competitive lists (e.g. double-shoot Aggressors before they were nerfed), but is also not so mediocre/redundant compared to other Astartes units that it is rarely used (i.e. Reivers and how they have struggled since the beginning of 8th)

 

 

That's it. We will assume the points will be balanced appropriately by GW (at least eventually), so don't worry about that, but everything else (stats, wargear, special rules, etc.) is up to you.

 

It can be a squad, a vehicle, a squad of vehicles, you name it :wink:

 

 

To kick it off, here is my entry:

 

---------

 

Space Marine "Venator Squad" -- FAST ATTACK -- (models based on the same kit as the Outriders)

 

2 Venator ------------------ M14" WS3+ BS3+ S4 T5 W4 A2 Ld7 Sv3+

1 Venator Sergeant ------ M14" WS3+ BS3+ S4 T5 W4 A3 Ld8 Sv3+

 

Each model is equipped with a Twin Neo-Volkite Rifle, Heavy Bolt Pistol, Frag/Krak Grenades, and Combat Shied

 

 

WARGEAR:

*Twin Neo-Volkite Blaster - ------ 18" Rapid Fire 2 S6 AP0 Dmg2 (Unmodified Wounds of 6 inflict a MW in addition to any other damage)

*Heavy Bolt Pistol ---------------- 18" Pistol 1 S4 AP-1 Dmg1

**Combat Shield: Improves Armor Save of bearer by +1 and grants bearer a 5++ Invulnerable Save

 

 

OPTIONS:

*Venator Sergeant may replace Heavy Bolt Pistol with a Neo-Volkite Pistol or Plasma Pistol

*Venator Sergeant may replace Heavy Bolt Pistol with a Power Fist or a Power Sword

 

 

SPECIAL Rules

*Angels of Death

*Turbo-boost

*Ravenwing (if Dark Angel or DA Successor)

*Priority Target -- After deployment, but before the first Battle Round, each Venator squad can select a single enemy Data Sheet type as a "Priority Target." Whenever that squad makes a shooting or close combat attack against its chosen "Priority Target" Data Sheet it can ignore the "Look Out, Sir!" rule, ignores any effects of cover, and it re-rolls 1s to Hit and 1s to Wound.

 

---------

 

Unique Role/Contribution to a Space Marine Army:

 

The idea behind the Venator Squad is to provide a mobile, short-medium ranged "Dragoon" type unit that put out focused anti-elite Infantry and light vehicle damage, both of which are significant threats in the current meta game. This unit has good mobility (i.e. thanks to the Outrider-style bike) and durability (i.e. T5, 4W, and the Combat Shield), but has little close combat capability (i.e. only 10 x S4 AP0 attacks on the charge, unlike the 19 x S4 AP-1 attacks on the charge of its Outrider cousins).

 

In terms of its overall design, a Venator Squad is supposed to play a "surgical strike" role that excels at taking out a specific enemy unit type (potentially including a specific enemy character type), hence the Priority Target rule. This should help differentiate its role from other mobile "shooty" units like Inceptors (deep strike and raw shooting ability), MM Attack Bikes (heavy anti-armor), Suppressors (long-ranged skirmishers), etc. It also gives you pre-game flexibility by allowing you to choose which enemy Data Sheet is the Priority Target (i.e. if there are tons of Dark Eldar Raiders, choose that; if there is a lynchpin enemy character, choose that; if you are up against a DG opponent who spams Deathshroud Terminators, choose them)

 

Finally, in terms of balancing the unit so it is not an "auto-take," capping the squad at 3 models (just like Eliminators, Suppressors, and Outriders) keeps it from becoming too powerful, with a max of 12 x Neo-Volkite shots at 9" range, requiring the squad to get quite close to its enemy in order to maximize its firepower (or, at maximum stand-off, it can try to snipe selected characters at 18" with 6 x Neo-Volkite shots, but even then it is quite close to your opponent's army).

honestly just seems like a more elite primaris version of a bike squad tbh

 

Not really a criticism since GW already had every role pretty well covered in the firstborn line, but doesn't seem particularly unique to me.

Well, let's see....

Breacher Squad ( troop choice) ( Core, Primaris, Chapter xxx); 1 sergeant ( Power Sword, Breacher Shield, Heavy Bolt Pistol, frag grenades) plus 4-9 Breacher Marines ( Astartes Chainsword, Heavy Bolt Pistol, Breacher shotgun, frag grenades).

One model can swap his Shotgun for a Flamer or a Plasma Gun.

Breacher Shotgun: assault 3 range 12 AP-1.

Breacher Shield: it's a combat shield ( 5+ save) but if in 6" range of a objective it can deploy, halving the movement characteristic for the model but giving +1 light cover bonus to saves.

(yes the name is stolen from 30k I know I know).

 

I'm not even trying to pretend I'm good at balancing but anyway:

The shotgun is a short range autobolt rifle, the short range kind of balances the extra stickiness compared to Intercessors.

I was toying with the idea of having the shield +1 save in light cover/buildings moving the unit from the objective holder role to indoor skirmisher but I am unsure how much would it come to play.

Quite possibly it would be best to make it max 5 models for balance reasons too.

Edited by Brother Ramael

Inquisitor Lensoven

 

I like your Flyer, nicely put together, unique from other SM flyers, but still not too outrageously out of synch with the Astartes codex to feel like it doesn't belong.

 

WRT the Venators not being unique enough, I partly see your point, but I also partly disagree, as their rules/wargear/unit size gives them something different from both Outriders and "vanilla" SM bike squads.

 

 

Brother Ramael

 

I like your Breachers, both in flavor and role, but perhaps the Troops slot is a bit over crowded already, especially with five Primaris options already... what if they were a Heavy Support slot, in fitting with their "Heavy" role? Then they are only competing with Eliminators, Eradicators, and Hellblasters, in terms of HS Primaris infantry.

Edited by L30n1d4s

Inquisitor Lensoven

 

I like your Flyer, nicely put together, unique from other SM flyers, but still not too outrageously out of synch with the Astartes codex to feel like it doesn't belong.

 

WRT the Venators not being unique enough, I partly see your point, but I also partly disagree, as their rules/wargear/unit size gives them something different from both Outriders and "vanilla" SM bike squads.

 

 

Brother Ramael

 

I like your Breachers, both in flavor and role, but perhaps the Troops slot is a bit over crowded already, especially with five Primaris options already... what if they were a Heavy Support slot, in fitting with their "Heavy" role? Then they are only competing with Eliminators, Eradicators, and Hellblasters, in terms of HS Primaris infantry.

how do you see the venator squad size making it unique?

2 bikers and a sergeant, same as outriders, same as ATVs, same as bikers, same as scout bikers, same as attack bikes.

 

3 bikers with weapons meant to kill MEQ units just seems like a small biker unit.

 

But my point was mostly that GW has already filled every role possible between the two marine lines.

 

My flier is only unique because it's a primaris flier, but otherwise it's basically just a primaris stormhawk

Edited by Inquisitor_Lensoven

Well, good question ;)

 

It is not just the size... more the loadout (i.e. no other units in the Codex have Neo-Volkite Blasters, very few units have Combat Shields, especially for the whole unit, no one else can select a "Priority Target" Data Sheet to have lots of advantages against, especially when operating independently from character buffs/support (closest thing is the Tome of Ectoclades relic from Deathwatch, but that is an aura for just one turn).

 

Yes, Volkite has good strength and Dmg vs MEQs (S6 AP2), but with no AP, it is depending on MWs to really help against 3+ armor saves. Thus, I see Venators as a squad that excels at taking out small squads of enemy elite MSU, vice strong against hordes of MEQ models. Also, against T7, 3+ save vehicles they will struggle, but against lighter vehicles (i.e. T6, 4+ save) they have a niche, I think.

Edited by L30n1d4s

Well, good question ;)

 

It is not just the size... more the loadout (i.e. no other units in the Codex have Neo-Volkite Blasters, very few units have Combat Shields, especially for the whole unit, no one else can select a "Priority Target" Data Sheet to have lots of advantages against, especially when operating independently from character buffs/support (closest thing is the Tome of Ectoclades relic from Deathwatch, but that is an aura for just one turn).

 

Yes, Volkite has good strength and Dmg vs MEQs (S6 AP2), but with no AP, it is depending on MWs to really help against 3+ armor saves. Thus, I see Venators as a squad that excels at taking out small squads of enemy elite MSU, vice strong against hordes of MEQ models. Also, against T7, 3+ save vehicles they will struggle, but against lighter vehicles (i.e. T6, 4+ save) they have a niche, I think.

the rules are about creating a new unique unit to fill a battle field role that's not filled currently.

 

I guess I don't see it being unique just because they can all take storm shields or all take a specific weapon, if that weapon crosses over with another weapon in the same role.

Hmmm.... we will have to agree to disagree here, as all the reasons I gave you are things that make it, IMHO, have a distinct battlefield role.

 

Cheers, and thanks for contributing your opinions here, as well as your own ideas for a unique Primaris unit

Hellfuries

3-6

M 12”

Standard Statline

Death From Above

2x Heavy Bolt / Neo-Volkite / Plasma / Grav / Inferno Pistols or Hand Flamers. Sergeant may exchange one pistol for a Power Sword

 

Squad may shoot on a turn in which it Fell Back

whats a standard stat line?

CCE1981

 

Great unit! Simple, doable, relatively unique equipment and rules (a little overlap with Inceptors, kind of like my Venator idea overlaps with Space Marine bike squads slightly), and filling a role for Space Marines that hasn't been truly taken yet -- i.e. Astartes "Primaris Seraphim" ... maybe drop Plasma Pistol option, as that is too similar to Inceptors, but keep everything else

Edited by L30n1d4s

Linegaurd Vets squad.

 

Bs3/Ws3/S4/T4/W3/A2/Ld9/Sv3+

 

Equipment- mastercrafted bolt rifle, bolt pistol, and storm shield.

 

Squad size 1 linegaurd Sarg and 2-5 linegaurd.

 

The squad may have up to two models swap their mastercrafted bolt rifle for a gravgun, plasma rifle, meltagun, or a neovolkite rifle.

 

The linegaurd Sarg may upgrade his bolt pistol to a Neovolkite pistol, plasma pistol, powersword, Thunderhammer, or powerfist

 

Shieldwall - Linegaurd Vets always coulnt as being in defensible terrain.

 

Neovolkit Rifle. 30" range, rapid fire, S5, 0ap, wound rolls of 6s generate 1 mortal wound in addition to other damage generated.

 

Fills the small gap of defensible shooting SM with stormshields, a nich only Deathwatch was able to fill previously.

Edited by War of the Eagle

Linegaurd Vets squad.

 

Bs3/Ws3/S4/T4/W3/A2/Ld9/Sv3+

 

Equipment- mastercrafted bolt rifle, bolt pistol, and storm shield.

 

Squad size 1 linegaurd Sarg and 2-5 linegaurd.

 

The squad may have up to two models swap their mastercrafted bolt rifle for a gravgun, plasma rifle, meltagun, or a neovolkite rifle.

 

The linegaurd Sarg may upgrade his bolt pistol to a Neovolkite pistol, plasma pistol, powersword, Thunderhammer, or powerfist

 

Shieldwall - Linegaurd Vets always coulnt as being in defensible terrain.

 

Neovolkit Rifle. 30" range, rapid fire, S5, 0ap, wound rolls of 6s generate 1 mortal wound in addition to other damage generated.

 

Fills the small gap of defensible shooting SM with stormshields, a nich only Deathwatch was able to fill previously.

I like this one a lot

Very nice challenge!

 

Here is my contribute:

 

EXTERMINATORS - Heavy support

Unit size : 3-6

MKX GRAVIS ARMOR

35-pts per model (war gear included)

 

M:5

BS:3

WS:3

S:4

T:5

W:3

A:3

Ld:7

Sv:3+

 

Weapon : Volkite Obliterator:

36” Heavy 5 S6:, Ap:0, D2

Each time an attack is made with this weapon, an unmodified wound roll of 6 inflicts 1 mortal wound on the target in addition to any normal damage

 

Optional equipment (every model in the unit must change)

 

Plasma Breacher and Assault Gauntlet

 

Plasma breacher

18” Assault 4 S6: Ap:-4 D2

If this weapon targets a unit at half rage double the number of shots.

 

Assault gauntlet

S+1 Ap-2 D1

When the bearer fights, it makes 1 additional attack with this weapon

 

Special rule:

No place to hide:

Enemy units hits by this unit in the shooting phase, lose any bonus based on Cover until the start of your next command phase, and cannot fire overwatch.

 

Dedicated Stratagem

INFERNO 1CP:

When all the models in this unit shot at the same target unit, and this contains 6 or more model's every hit roll of 5 or more, scores one additional hit.

 

AND as a Son of DORN this is my tribute to the legion

 

TRIARI - TROOPS - IMPERIAL FISTS only unit. (And successor)

20pts per model war gear included (intercessor should be 18 IMO). Unit size 5-10

 

M:8”

BS:3

WS:3

S:4

T:4

W:2

A:2

Ld:7

Sv:3+

 

Weapon:

Bolt Auto Shotgun

18” assault 4 S5 Ap-1 D2

If this weapon targets a unit at half rage improve S, Ap and D by 1.

 

HEAVY BOLT PISTOL

Astartes chainsword

 

wargear:

SCUTUM : The bearer has a 5+ invulnerable save. In addition, add 1 to armour saving throws made for the bearer.

 

Sergeant options:

POWER SWORD,POWER FIST, THUNDER HAMMER. Plasma pistol.

 

Dedicated stratagem

BREACHING CHARGE 1CP:

In the fight phase every model in this unit, instead of fighting normally, performs one single attack with the following profile:

S: 8 Ap:-4, Dmg:D3+3

Primaris Combat Engineer

 

Lieutenant stat line, armed with a Bolter and some specialist equipment (for flavour).

 

Special Rule: Battlefield Fortification. At the end of your movement phase on your second or third turn, if this model is holding an objective you may set up a Hammerfall Bunker within 6” of this model, outside of engagement range of enemy units (but can be within 9” of enemies). The Hammerfall bunker is now considered to be holding the objective, and no enemy can claim the objective until the hammerfall banker is destroyed. Remove the combat engineer from the battlefield (he is assumed to have entered the bunker when it landed). A Hammerfall Bunker deployed via this rule gets +1 to hit (the engineer is manning its guns) and heals d3 wounds at the end of each friendly command phase (the engineer is doing emergency repairs).

Edited by Trokair

This was fun, so while I was swimming I did another one.

While there is that Ultra Special Cahracter Marines in general don’t really have Tank Commanders, so drawing from IG and 30k Legion.

Tank Commander
50p + cost of tank.

When you add this unit to your force you also need to add a non Walker non Titanic <Chapter> Vehicle. This unit is treated as a HQ choice instead of its normal Battlefield Role. It has +1 BS, is a character and has the following abilities.

Armoured Company
If this model is your Warlord it gains the Armoured Command Warlord Trait (detailed below) and for compulsory troop slots in this detachment you may select any of the following as a Troop choice instead of their normal Battlefield Role, they are treated as a Troop choice (and if the army is battleforged gain ObSec (counting as a number of models equal to their remaining wounds)): Rhino, Razorback, Predator (annihilator or destructor), Land Speeder (all variants), Impulsor, Storm Speeder (all variants), Gladiator (all variants).

Armoured Might
If a tank commander wounds falls to the lowest bracket then it is treated as being in the bracket above for determining the variable stats.

Armoured Command (Worlod Trait)
Friendly non Walker non Titanic <Chapter> Vehicles from the same detachment within 12” may reroll the shots (if applicable), hit roll, wound roll, damage roll (if applicable) for that vehicles main weapon. For avoidance of doubt before the battle begins inform your opponent which weapon on every eligible vehicle is the main weapon. For most vehicles the main weapon is obvious (turret on Predators for example), but where it is not obvious (example Replusor with HOG and Twin Lascannon) you may pick one weapon the model has. Note that only one weapon can be the main weapon, even if the vehicle has another identical weapon (example Land Raiders and their Twin Lascannon)

Unique Stratagem – Last Stand – 2CP
In your command phase, if a Tank Commander wound count would put it in the lowest bracket then you may use this stratagem. Until the end of turn the Tank Commander is treated as being on the highest bracket and may be selected twice in the shooting phase. At the end of the turn the tank commander is removed as a casualty (granting slay the warlord to the enemy where relevant). You may choose to have the tank commander explodes automatically instead of rolling, if you do double the range and mortal wounds caused by the explosion.

Edited by Trokair

Praetorian Guard (Primaris Terminators - XV10 Gravis Armor)

 

4W S5 T5 2+/4++ Sv 4A 5" M Ld9

 

Melta Flamer - S8 AP4 d6 Blast 12" Range

 

Titan Hammer - 2xS AP3 (+1 to hit) Melee

 

Can deep strike.

Edited by Black Blow Fly

A little RG specialist unit

 

Suppressed heavy bolt pistol Pistol 1 str 4/-1/2

Shadow Blades Str User/-2/1 +1 Attack

 

Unseen End - Double damage if unit charges out of terrain.

Stealth Mod Jump pack - 8" Move(reduced thrust for stealth) +2 to charge or advance rolls.

Edited by mertbl

Interesting ideas on the Tank Commander (kind of like a "super" Chronus for Primaris vehicles, sounds like) and Praetorian Guard (they seem super powerful... maybe even too powerful, especially compared to the "normal" Terminators ;) ).

 

Raven Guard unique Primaris unit sounds quite cool!

Wanted to do another. I feel SM need a mini knight style Dreadnought as a lord of war.

 

Rectifier Dreadnought

 

10"m/Ws3+/Bs3+/S7/T8/A6/W24/Ld9/3+sv

 

Lord of war

 

Automatic shielding - The Rectifier has a 5+ ivnul save.

 

Reinforced Cerimite - all ranged attacks made against the Rectifier, Ap is reduced by 1 to the minimum of 0.

 

Duty Eternal - The all damage delt to the Rectifier is reduced by -1 to the minimum of 1.

 

Weapons:

Laser volley destroyer.

36" Heavy 3/ S9/ Ap -3/ Damage D3+3

OC 36" Heavy 3/ S10/ Ap -4/ Damage 6 - hit rolls of 1 deal 1 mortal wound to this unit.

 

2x Onslaught gattling cannons

 

2x Tempest bolters

 

Krak Rain missile launcher

Range 48" heavy 3d6/ S5/ Ap -2/ D1

Targets do not receive the benefits of cover

 

Rectifier chain fist

Range melee, Sx2/ Ap -4 / D5

 

The Rectifiers Onslaught gatting cannons can be upgraded to Multimeltas for +5 pts each.

 

The Rectifiers Tempest bolters can be upgraded to a pair of Assualt plasma incinerators for +10pts each.

Edited by War of the Eagle

Primaris Interdictor Assault Gunship - Flyer

M 20-50''/20-40''/20-30''
WS 6+
BS 3+/4+/5+
S 6 
T 7
W 11
LD 8
Sv 3+

Heavy Onslaught Gatling Cannon, can replace with Las-Talon.

2x Onslaught Gatling Cannons 

 

Special Rules: Airborne, Explodes 6''/D3, Assault Vehicle

Covering Fire: When a PRIMARIS INFANTRY unit disembarks from a Interdictor Assault Gunship, you may shoot the Onslaught Gatling Cannons on the Interdictor Assault Gunship they disembarked from at the closest enemy unit. An Interdictor Assault Gunship that shoots in this manner may shoot again in that turn's Shooting phase.  

 

Transport x5 <CHAPTER> PRIMARIS INFANTRY, cannot transport GRAVIS

Something to cart around a squad of Intercessors or Hellblasters to key points on the battlefield. Firepower is mostly anti-infantry in nature, as with its historical inspirations. 

Edited by SvenIronhand

Currently imagining this as a cross between a Land Speeder Storm and a Valkyrie.

 

In ‘Covering Fire’ I assume you mean ‘may’ instead of ‘might’, I’d also be inclined to have these extra shots be at the closest enemy unit to the disembarking unit’s position.

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