Adept vs Master of the Codex

[Scrapknight]

Hi all! Making a build for the Chapter Master of my UM successors (probably the Gravis Captain with heavy bolt rifle, but open to other Primaris suggestions) and wanted to check something. Is our Adept of the Codex actually better than the Chapter Master's Master of the Codex? Obviously Master refunds the CP on a 4+ rather than a 5+, but Adept can proc multiple times if you use more stratagems until you actually get it. I haven't run the math on this for varying amounts of stratagems used, so which do you guys think is better? Thanks!

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

You can take both WLTs on one character.

[Karhedron]

You can take both WLTs on one character.

True but you can only gain 1CP per turn IIRC so the law of diminishing returns starts to kick into effect.

[Scrapknight]

 

You can take both WLTs on one character.

True but you can only gain 1CP per turn IIRC so the law of diminishing returns starts to kick into effect.

 

 

Yeah that's the problem. I looked some stuff up and it seems like any CP refunding stuff can only give you max 1 per round even if you have multiple sources of it. Plus I'm giving this guy Imperium's Sword as his other WLT so he can really mix it up on an objective along with some Aggressors and Bladeguard Vets, so I don't wanna drop that.

 

Anyway my math says that if you spend more than 1 CP / turn Adept is actually more likely to get you that point, but that has the obvious tradeoff of not generating any if you don't have much/enough to spend, which can be a thing in later rounds. Not sure which is really better from that point of view.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

CPs win games… don’t be penny wise. In my Iron Hands army I have Master of Codex and Tempered Helm… basically same combo and it’s great.

[Ishagu]

Adept of the Codex is the one I use.

 

I go through 3 - 4CP or more in the early turns, and it basically guarantees I get one back as you're rolling that same number of dice.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

The other one is backup so you’re pretty much assured 5 extra CP over the course of a game.

[Captain Idaho]

If I'm honest I've found Adept of the Codex pretty rubbish. There's been turns where I've gotten nothing back, with games where I only got back 1 or 2 CP and all this isn't too uncommon. I've found the use of another Warlord Trait much more beneficial.

 

If it could garner back more than 1 a turn it might be worth it, but really I don't value it.

[Karhedron]

My early experiences with CP farming have been an Ordo Xenos Inquisitor with Esoteric Lore WLT. This gives you a CP on a 5+ each time your opponent uses a Stratagem. It only managed to generate 1CP over the course of the game so broke even but gave no advantage. Of course if my dice had rolled hot I would probably be raving about it.

 

A lot depends on how you spend you CPs. A lot of players like to spend quite a few CPs pregame on extra WLTs and Relics. If this is the case then it leaves fewer CPs to spend in game so Master of the Codex may be the way to go. Master of the Codex has the advantage that it will keep working just as reliable, even if you have burned your CPs.

 

On the other hand, if you use a lot of stratagems mid-game then Adept of the Codex may be better. In a 1001-2000 point game, you will normally have 17CPs to play with so generating your full 5 CPs is feasible provided you pace yourself and don't splurge too heavily on stratagems T1 and 2. Also each CP recovered gives you another roll to recover in future games.

 

Master plays it safe and is good if you spend plenty of CPs pre-game. Adept is for those who like to conserve their CPs for the heat of battle.

[Oxydo]

Plus I'm giving this guy Imperium's Sword as his other WLT so he can really mix it up on an objective along with some Aggressors and Bladeguard Vets, so I don't wanna drop that.

Remember that the Exemplar of the Chapter requires you to grab an UM WLT which pigeonholes you into Adept of the Codex if you want to run Imperium's Sword.

Mathwise, this article goes into detail on how different CP gain/refund abilties perform. https://www.goonhammer.com/hammer-of-math-refunding-command-points/

tl dr: If you can manage to spend at least 2 CP/round for 3 rounds and 1 CP/round for 2 rounds (not very hard with the 1 free CP per Command Phase) Adept and Master are about equal.

Sure, there are times you essentially won't regain a single CP because the dice hates you (my Adept always underpeforms hard), but in theory I consider Adept to be the better WLT, especially for Strike Force and above.

Edited July 22, 2021 by Captain Idaho

[Scrapknight]

 

You can take both WLTs on one character.

That was a singularly unhelpful answer.

 

Plus I'm giving this guy Imperium's Sword as his other WLT so he can really mix it up on an objective along with some Aggressors and Bladeguard Vets, so I don't wanna drop that.

Remember that the Exemplar of the Chapter requires you to grab an UM WLT which pigeonholes you into Adept of the Codex if you want to run Imperium's Sword.

Mathwise, this article goes into detail on how different CP gain/refund abilties perform. https://www.goonhammer.com/hammer-of-math-refunding-command-points/

tl dr: If you can manage to spend at least 2 CP/round for 3 rounds and 1 CP/round for 2 rounds (not very hard with the 1 free CP per Command Phase) Adept and Master are about equal.

Sure, there are times you essentially won't regain a single CP because the dice hates you (my Adept always underpeforms hard), but in theory I consider Adept to be the better WLT, especially for Strike Force and above.

 

 

Thanks! Yeah I feel pretty confident about going Adept and your math checks out with mine. My local area plays more 1000 points than 2000 tbh so when I've tried out Adept in that context, but I'm getting my chapter master ready more for 2000 points so Adept looks a lot better when you start with 7 than with 4.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

 

You can take both WLTs on one character.

That was a singularly unhelpful answer.

 

Plus I'm giving this guy Imperium's Sword as his other WLT so he can really mix it up on an objective along with some Aggressors and Bladeguard Vets, so I don't wanna drop that.

Remember that the Exemplar of the Chapter requires you to grab an UM WLT which pigeonholes you into Adept of the Codex if you want to run Imperium's Sword.

Mathwise, this article goes into detail on how different CP gain/refund abilties perform. https://www.goonhammer.com/hammer-of-math-refunding-command-points/

tl dr: If you can manage to spend at least 2 CP/round for 3 rounds and 1 CP/round for 2 rounds (not very hard with the 1 free CP per Command Phase) Adept and Master are about equal.

Sure, there are times you essentially won't regain a single CP because the dice hates you (my Adept always underpeforms hard), but in theory I consider Adept to be the better WLT, especially for Strike Force and above.

.

 

if you read the entire reason I explained my reasons why it’s beneficial to take both.

Edited July 22, 2021 by Captain Idaho