Intellectual property guidelines updated

[Focslain]

Another update. Midwinter mini's has been contacted by GW that it was an erroneous flag and it's been cleared.

 

Youtube's bots strike again. This might be a thing for any reviews of their multi-media stuff as the strike bots tend to be overzealous most of the time.

[Joe]

I suspected it was a rogue bot - it's nice to have that confirmed. Youtube really need to try and get to the bottom of this.

[Black Knight]

It was a manual claim Joe, so it wasn't a bot but a human and the whole claiming process is quite a long process with forms to fill out.

 

So basically it was intentional but seems like it was done by someone that didn't know what they were doing or what's allowed. A worrying prospect but something that can be fixed with training. Hopefully it wasn't done because someone didn't like the review, there's too much of that on Youtube.

Edited September 3, 2021 by Black_Knight

[Noserenda]

I mean it wasnt a bot was it? :D 

I suspect its more bad optics than a rogue staff member though.

[Valkyrion]

I know (or at least I think I know) that sharing scans of a new codex is illegal, for example, but what is the actual crime if there is no money changing hands? I thought copyright was only for monetary gain (genuine question, I'm not a 'scanning is a victimless crime' guy)

 

I imagine a guy sitting at a desk in nottingham searching for 'codex space marines pdf' all day long as part of his job to try and find games-workshop or someone sharing a dozen pages of it. 

 

 

Woah - I type one thing and games-workshop appeared instead.....that's not happened before....

Edited September 3, 2021 by Valkyrion

[RWJP]

I get the feeling this might be a case of GW learning how to handle copyright claims of this nature for the first time and screwing it up on the first attempt.

While GW has plenty of experience dealing with things like recasters and 3rd party bits manufacturers, this is really the first time they have ever had to deal with elements of animated/audio content being re-uploaded to Youtube (albeit as part of a review).

[Joe]

It was a manual claim Joe, so it wasn't a bot but a human and the whole claiming process is quite a long process with forms to fill out.

 

So basically it was intentional but seems like it was done by someone that didn't know what they were doing or what's allowed. A worrying prospect but something that can be fixed with training. Hopefully it wasn't done because someone didn't like the review, there's too much of that on Youtube.

 

Speaking from experience - a "manual claim" can, and often is, still a bot. It's been a known issue on the platform for quite some time now (particularly for video games reviewers), and it's not unusual for the bots (which are designed to scrape videos for audio / visuals) to flag erroneously. In the case of the review (and the point at which it's flagged), it's when the actual video for GWs Battlereport crops up.

 

That said, that doesn't mean it wasn't necessarily a staff member making a genuine mistake / being marginally over-zealous. It's just that there's pre-existing precedent for this issue elsewhere, and nothing in MWMs statement on the matter actually discredits it. It's curious either way.

[Doghouse]

Could have been someone getting ready to train their new infringement Arbites, I agree with the bot theory or as it's GW related a rogue Man of Iron.

[Black Knight]

A manual claim involves you filling out a legal digital document according to the DMCA, is it even legal for a bot to be doing that, there is no agency if its a bot?

 

A manual claim is still a manual claim and I cannot see why it "may" be a bot even reduces the weight of the issue. If you cannot hold enough respect for the law to go through the process manually and make a bot to do it, because you cannot be bothered, that doesn't reduce the levity of the situation if the bot makes a mistake. You can't wash your hands because your creation went on a spree, especially when the system expects the claimant to be making the claim.

Edited September 3, 2021 by Black_Knight

[phandaal]

Guy from Midwinter Minis confirmed that it was manual. Been making the rounds on various platforms all day. Games Workshop done goofed this time.

[Black Knight]

That's apparently not the issue anymore phandaal, people are starting to argue that the manual claim was by a bot... Even if it was and if thats even legal, GW blew the pooch on this one and need to realise that.

[tychobi]

I wonder how much Midwinter lost in the interruption. Even a hour or two out of your prime viewing can mean a big drop

[Black Knight]

Thankfully Youtube implemented a new system, last year I think, where they keep the money in trust until the dispute is complete. As it was only a claim for the money of the video and not a pull down, apart from the stress which is definably not welcome, they should receive the full amount and hopefully a nice uptick in views for the trouble due to the free advertisement(Their video) GW gave them.

Edited September 3, 2021 by Black_Knight

[phandaal]

That's apparently not the issue anymore phandaal, people are starting to argue that the manual claim was by a bot... Even if it was and if thats even legal, GW blew the pooch on this one and need to realise that.

 

Seems like grasping at straws to avoid pointing the finger at Games Workshop.

 

And yes, they screwed up and people should let them know that. The sooner they get off this road they are on, the better it will be for all of us. Pretending Games Workshop isn't on that road doesn't benefit anyone. Not us, and not GW in the long run.

[Marshal Rohr]

They also removed the strike. The evil corporation strikes again!

[Black Knight]

They did but it was still a manual strike to start with, meaning someone at GW spent the half an hour to fill out that form and then submitted it. It is good that they removed it but there is still the question on whether this was an intern not knowing what they were doing or it was GW trying their luck. I truly hope its the first option.

[phandaal]

They also removed the strike. The evil corporation strikes again!

Shouldn't have done it in the first place. Hyperbole doesn't help.

[chapter master 454]

GW keep stumbling around and creating worse and worse images of themselves. They better hope there isn't another "accidental" manual claim against someone else, because then they would look really bad. 

[Arkhanist]

They also removed the strike. The evil corporation strikes again!

That's the bare minimum. 3 copyright strikes and you lose your channel on youtube, it's serious business for people that make their living from it. MWM does a lot of painting videos too, that I've found genuinely helpful, and Guy seems like a genuinely nice bloke.

 

I recall a while back in the thread that the attitude towards creators of animation by some was that it was their own fault for making their living parodying GW works, or that they were just making it up as an excuse to get out of it.

 

Now it's a respected member of the community and reviewer that was in the firing line, and I hope they at least are seen as legitimate, and this strike was unjustified. For all we know, it was absolutely intentional and not an accident (manual claims are a lot of forms), but GW backed down because of the backlash. Going after everything inevitably means you will also hit people who have a cast iron fair use.

 

This is getting to Nintendo levels of aggression over their copyright, and that is *not a good thing*, whether it was a genuine mistake or otherwise.

[Domhnall]

If GW want to go down the road of a more 'proactive' approach to protecting their IP, I would have hoped they could be a bit less heavy handed while doing it!

If they have an issue with a content creator, they could approach them first to say "this is what we have an issue with, can you fix it?" Before going down the strike route.

It gives the creator a chance to fix for issue, and GW don't look quite as mean.

However even this has its problems: on YouTube my understanding is most videos make money quite quickly after posting before it gets lost in the "algorithm". So from GW perspective they would want to act quickly. I would think most creators would be accommodating and change what was needed, but some would just ignore the request leading to a strike, and then they'd complain "they were changing it, GW are bullying us, woe is me" *

 

As many have said before, IP laws as they currently stand are not fit for the current age, and need revising. Good luck with that!

 

*and any scenario in between

[Brother Captain Alberic]

Personally it looks to me like an honest mistake they have only just changed the guidelines and going by the ad posted are hiring new staff. Now if this starts happening a lot that lee way goes away as especially in regards to legal stuff they can’t afford those kind of mistakes. End of the day it feels like people are too quick to judge without knowing all the facts.

[RWJP]

I'm going to work on the basis that GW are telling the truth that this was erroneous.

 

In that case, that brings three main situations to mind:

 

1. Some staff member in the legal team was given a set of rules on what content needed to be claimed, and those rules were generic/poirly written enough that they saw MWM's video and thought it needed claiming.

 

2. GW has it's own bot that flagged MWM's video to the legal team, and rather than reviewing it properly, whoever got the report just decided to go with it and claim instead of doing the necessary due diligence.

 

3. GW is currently farming out it's IP Infringement tracking work to a third party (which is relatively common) and that third party flagged the video, with GW not bothering to check it was correct and one of the legal team just filled in the claim without doing the necessary due diligence.

 

Regardless of which of those options it is, GW was negligent in this situation and someone wasn'twell trained enough. Hopefully this is the wake up call they need. The fact they have also been advertising for staff for this job suggests that they are building up the capacity to handle this themselves rather than having it farmed out or automated.

Edited September 4, 2021 by RWJP

[Marshal Reinhard]

 

Hyperbole doesn't help.

This thread wouldn't exist without it. On either side.

Edited September 4, 2021 by Reinhard

[excelite]

I think the real issue is not being talked about… yes that Channel was struck, no it wasn’t correct, but yes it was corrected… so it doesn‘t matter, mistakes happen.

 

The big issue is (imho) that GW is hiring people without legal expertise to work that stuff (have a look at their hiring page that was posted here).

 

What they are looking for are cheap, dumb, drones that basically do a bots work. This will lead to a lot of incorrect strikes and will do no good to the community and/or the company.

 

This is the thing that needs to change… they need to have employees that have in depth knowledge of what is acceptable and what isn’t. This work can and should not be done by the people they are looking to employ (based on their description)

[Kastor Krieg]

He’s welcome to file a lawsuit and have his rights enforced.

 

 

They also removed the strike. The evil corporation strikes again!

Wow.

 

"Yeah, just sue the hundreds of millions of dollars corporation if you want your rights! You will surely prevail on the merits and not get bankrupted by them instead!".

 

"What do you want, they removed their illegal totally-not-intentional manual copyright strike that requires filling out a ton of paperwork and wasn't done by a bot. They're not evil now that they backed off under customer pressure and risk of bad PR!"

 

I hope it's at least tasty. The boot, I mean.

Edited September 4, 2021 by Reclusiarch Krieg