Intellectual property guidelines updated

[Marshal Rohr]

The fact is that the community simple does Warhammer better than GW does XD and they are big mad about it.

Not really. The Warhammer+ animations still look clunky and amateurish but nowhere near as painfully bad or repetitive as most youtube animations. Most ‘commission’ artists are nowhere near as good as Mikhail Savier or the studio artists. Most streamers and fanfic writers are just bad at what they are doing. There are some really, really exceptional people out there doing really, really great work and those people aren’t the target of these rules but then you have absolute trash like Text to Speech sucking up so much oxygen and visibility because it’s popular with Reddit fans that own no armies and pirate all their codexes. The exact type of image and community GW isn’t trying to bring in.

[Redcomet]

The fact is that the community simple does Warhammer better than GW does XD and they are big mad about it.

Come on. Such a blanket statement requires some evidence to back it up :D

[Rik Lightstar]

Is it safe yet or is the sky still falling?

 

Oooooooh an acorn, probably unrelated........

 

Rik

[sarabando]

 

The fact is that the community simple does Warhammer better than GW does XD and they are big mad about it.

Come on. Such a blanket statement requires some evidence to back it up :D

Sure

Animation.

Astartes, death of hope and sodaz all look better than GW in studio blood angels show. Even hellsreach was groundbreaking in its day.

 

TTS comes at 40k from a different angle and has a huge fan base

 

The cadian XXth gaming showing people having huge fps battles in the 40k universe.

 

Apps

Battle scribe makes GWs army list building apps look like a child built it. It's updated daily covers multiple games, includes can built rules

 

40k wiki is a comprehensive database of fluff which is again regularly updated.

 

YouTube

The community here provides in-depth painting and modeling tutorials that are far beyond the 2 thin coats medium layer brush that GW uses. With user/creator engagement

 

Battle reports that are well thought out and we'll filmed with great production value look at the 30k channel.

 

Product reviews that show the whole mini, all it's.components and options compare them to other minis show you where.you might have modelling issues and how to resolve them. Like leaky cheese

 

 

I'm not even going to bother touching on 3rd party models and bits GW already fought that battle and lost.

 

 

Should GW be able to defend their IP. Yes absolutely with out question.

 

Is this a crap way for them to do it. Yes I believe it is. GWs community is what keeps them alive.

[Marshal Rohr]

I sincerely doubt the Blood Angels show will somehow be worse than Helsreach with the same man doing it with more resources. Astartes was stiff and repetitive, and I can’t imagine it will be worse with more money and resources.

[armarnis]

i think comparing (mostly) single person doing stuff in their freetime to learn and/or showcase their animation skills with a team that is getting both money and resources given is not working out fairly in any form. not saying the former is worse than the later, but it can turn out in an very unexpected way i think.

take into account that some people will only see the bad in x and only the good in y it escalates quickly.

[Joe]

Some of the examples listed are off-kilter, to be fair.

 

• Cadian XXth are Warhammer-related in name only, as they are really a bog-standard ArmA unit.
• BattleScribe (the application) is fantastic, however the repository for 40k is an utter disaster that's in desperate need of an overhaul bottom-to-top (and that's ignoring the rather pathetic meme DMCA they let punted out last year).
• The wikis aren't particularly fantastic at the best of times and are filled with fanon, repeated information and / or out-of-date content with little effort to distinguish which is which - a good example of wiki would be Memory Alpha.
• Third-party models are insanely hit or miss for the most part. Whilst something like Artel W is a neat miniature to look at it's completely at odds with Warhammer visually.

 

At the end of the day there isn't anyone in here that disagrees that they couldn't have managed this better. I still think the Xbox solution would be the best course of action to take. That said, until they start throwing their weight around we won't really know to what extent they'll actually be doing so - assume the worst, hope for the best.

 

I do still think it's odd they've told some of the animators they've spoken to that they can keep their stuff up so long as it isn't monetised, whereas others have had to take it down. I'm leaning on inconsistent enforcement due to miscommunication / shift in policy there.

[Khornestar]

Their IP, their call. There will continue to be no negative financial consequences for their decisions, in terms of dissuading people from buying stuff based on their business practices (is my prediction).

 

There’s no down side for GW, really. No meaningful down side. GW is not our buddy rolling dice with us to unwind on a Saturday afternoon. They want us to buy as much as possible as often as possible. Maybe a few people will pick up the hobby based on fan videos, but if they’re creating a newish way to make money, there should be no reason they tolerate people making money off of their IP.

 

As long as we buy everything new they’re releasing and they sell out of almost everything, why would they change a thing? Good will from long time fans is not what keeps them going, setting profit records, etc.

[Antarius]

 

It occurred to me on the way home that GW could ask all YouTube content creators to provide a link to Warhammer+ at no charge to GW.

YouTube seems to attract way more viewers, many of whom have never set foot in a GW store.

I wouldn't be surprised if fan-made series creators such as Astartes / SODAZ, put WH40K on the radar for so many more people compared to all their brick-and-mortar stores combined.

 

I would be quite surprised if those fan-made series brought in many new people. As good as they might have been, they appealed to people who were already well aware of the lore.

 

 

 

...Are they scumbags?

Yes.

 

A corporation doesn't create anything, individuals do. The fact that a private money-driven collective can perform legal slight of hand to act as an individual responsible for the creative process allows them to weaponize what was once individual ownership. It's braincancer.

 

I am extremely worried about where we’re headed when it comes to the power and influence of large corporations, but this view just seems so disconnected from the reality of how things like business and IP work that I don’t really know how to respond, except with what may seem a snarky question: how do you propose that these things (should) work in actual practice, if not like this?

[Noserenda]

Eh, its not unusual but its certainly a bad move i feel.

I always wonder with these things how much thought goes into moves like this, aiming to protect sales but also costing them sales too. Where does the balance lie? 

[chapter master 454]

I still stand by some tenets when you talk about the issue of being a pirate or loyal, and that is neither one can be used to prove loss of sale.

 

The loyal will always buy from the company. They were never an issue.

However among pirates there are several groups, Loyals do too but they are largely "gimmes" for the company.

 

There are the most Vicious: I want everything for free, no matter the time it takes or effort. These are not lost sales, they were never going to buy from the company full stop. Not a target because you can't stop them, GW may have money but these lot tend to have all the time in the world; the two greatest assets of the world (Money and Time).

 

There are the mistreated: These are the ones who feel they have been cheated. They pirate as a petty revenge. This is the first of the pirates we can try and reform with simple things and it starts here; good practices and good faith. GW may be a company but they can't make money if no-one buys and whales can only sustain smaller operations, not GW. Again, not a lost sale because they weren't going to buy anything after being mistreated anyway.

 

There are the poor: Similar to the Vicious however not because of any reason other than a lack of disposable income. Some would say "can't pay, don't play" but that isn't exactly healthy for any game and is proven by Free-to-Play models that PLAYERS drive demand, the bigger your player base (free or paid) the better you are received for outsiders. These individuals also can often be converted by offering good deals and not price-hiking every year. (and GW profits show the hiking ISN'T needed). Not a lost sale, they could AFFORD the product to begin with.

 

There are the untrusting: Similar to the mistreated but instead see shady practices before coming in or continuing before getting hurt and move to other sources. Reading what those practices are that hurt people generally is a good idea as fixing those benefits not the few but nearly always the entire whole. Again, not a lost sale because the company turned from what they liked or did something they don't like and thus was going to stop anyway.

 

3 of those groups which could be considered the bulk of pirates are all audiences you can appeal to by improving your service and pricings. I am not advocating Piracy but I am pointing out that demonising pirates isn't correct as a majority of them would likely go through proper channels if they ether felt it was fair or could go through them. You beat piracy not by bashing the loyal, you reward the loyal and show you care about your customers.

The Carrot is far and away the best method to treat people, NEVER the stick. The carrot rewards being there and doing it, however the stick rewards by being absent on a good job or present if a bad job is done: both bad feeling moments (no reward or punishment). End of the day GW doesn't have the money they actually desire: WE, the customers, do. Piracy is part of a consumers method of voting with their wallet, again it isn't legal and you shouldn't do it but like everything in life, we do things for reasons no matter how grand or petty.

 

GW are currently slipping. At the start of 8th, things were looking good but then 9th rolled around and dark clouds have been forming for a while now. The loss of ePubs (one of the greatest method to fighting digital piracy of books btw), "DLC" books following releases near day 1, the restriction of fan-made content like Nintendo does. The model lines and rules overall are looking good, but their practices are starting to reek of that old dumpster that was 6th and 7th era.

[Marshal Rohr]

It really cannot be stressed enough that the vast majority of ‘fan content’ GW will be policing are the lego and spaghetti third party 3D prints, lewd commission artists, and loretube whiners. If you draw a picture of your friends Marine captain nobody is going to CnD you. If you make a funny cartoon with stick figure marines you’re fine. If you’re one of the ‘tough guys’ selling a Lego looking or skull covered marine knock off because ‘prices are too high’ you’re going to get singled out.

[Marshal Reinhard]

aaw nah you didn't.

Astartes was stiff and repetitive

[cretacianborn]

https://www.pcgamer.com/uk/games-workshop-is-trying-to-shut-down-fan-animations/?region-switch=GB

 

Seems to be picking up some traction outside of the normal communities now. I wonder if GW will respond? Article says they reached out for comment.

[caladancid]

It really cannot be stressed enough that the vast majority of ‘fan content’ GW will be policing are the lego and spaghetti third party 3D prints, lewd commission artists, and loretube whiners. If you draw a picture of your friends Marine captain nobody is going to CnD you. If you make a funny cartoon with stick figure marines you’re fine. If you’re one of the ‘tough guys’ selling a Lego looking or skull covered marine knock off because ‘prices are too high’ you’re going to get singled out.

They’ve been in contact with you and explained their enforcement goals?

[Dagoth Ur]

 

aaw nah you didn't.

 

Astartes was stiff and repetitive

Yeah, that one had me wide eyed as well. Astartes is fantastic animation and visual storytelling even by industry standards. Maybe Rohr was thinking of Death of Hope?

[Marshal Rohr]

 

 

aaw nah you didn't.

 

Astartes was stiff and repetitive

Yeah, that one had me wide eyed as well. Astartes is fantastic animation and visual storytelling even by industry standards. Maybe Rohr was thinking of Death of Hope?

Something can be good but stiff and clunky. Original RoboCop is a classic but stiff and clunky. Darth Vader in the OT. Animatronic xenomorphs from Aliens. Doesn’t make it bad but I can’t imagine he’ll need so many running through a hallway scenes now.

[ThePenitentOne]

I think that animators who would previously have made Youtube vids should now just send their work to GW instead and get hired, then they can get more support and job security and that sort of thing.

 

I understand the fear- these guidelines are worded in such a way that they COULD be enforced in a draconian manner, but there's nothing here to indicate that this absolutely WILL be enforced in a draconian manner.

 

If Warhammer + works, and they want it to grow, they are going to have to hire, hire, hire. The gig economy sucks; real jobs are almost always better.

[Joe]

This post is worth a read; it's a good break-down of the gist of the IP situation.

[Dagoth Ur]

 

 

 

aaw nah you didn't.

 

Astartes was stiff and repetitive

Yeah, that one had me wide eyed as well. Astartes is fantastic animation and visual storytelling even by industry standards. Maybe Rohr was thinking of Death of Hope?

Something can be good but stiff and clunky. Original RoboCop is a classic but stiff and clunky. Darth Vader in the OT. Animatronic xenomorphs from Aliens. Doesn’t make it bad but I can’t imagine he’ll need so many running through a hallway scenes now.

I'm sorry my guy but we'll have to agree to disagree on that one because the other option for me is to assume that we haven't seen the same piece of animation. Astartes is incredibly fluently animated and very well-paced for a series of short videos made by a single dude, as well as very up-to-date in its fidelity of both composition and craftsmanship - its more than a little facetious to compare it to full-length films with massive studios and capital behind them that are not primarily animated but use prop- and animatronic-based tech of the time, particularly when some of them are nearly half a century old. Edited July 22, 2021 by The Observer

[depthcharge12]

 

Seems like sabre rattling more than anything else to me

 

Maybe more copyright strikes where that can be done as its free, but legal action costs money so unless something aggregious is going on they wouldnt want to progress beyond a cease and desist letter

 

Also kinda funny given how much they ripped off Dune for foundation lore

Almost everything is inspired by/rips off something else

It’s just nice that GW is finally protecting the IP of Heinlein, Herbert, Asimov, Tolkien, and others.

 

What nice people lol.

[D3L]

they did this in the early 2000s late 90s too, it was promptly ignored by the community, then they lost the CH case, so... good luck GW /s

we have a phrase in the UK, that this is just urinating into the wind ;-) 

Edited July 24, 2021 by D3L

[Marshal Reinhard]

I'm sorry my guy but we'll have to agree to disagree on that one because the other option for me is to assume that we haven't seen the same piece of animation. Astartes is incredibly fluently animated and very well-paced for a series of short videos made by a single dude, as well as very up-to-date in its fidelity of both composition and craftsmanship - its more than a little facetious to compare it to full-length films with massive studios and capital behind them that are not primarily animated but use prop- and animatronic-based tech of the time, particularly when some of them are nearly half a century old.

Astartes was a showcase in first class worksmanship in almost every area. Animation, shot composition, directing, visual story telling and pacing. It was simply on another level.

 

But I'll not post about it again as it's going off topic

[Joe]

They didn't actually lose the Chapter House case outright - the majority of the claims they filed were upheld, they received confirmation that certain physical properties of their miniatures (i.e. Space Marine pauldrons) were a copyright unto themself, and Chapter Houses counter-suit (which included stupidity such as "Games Workshop doesn't do business in America" and "you should not be able to copyright fantasy fiction because what if someone else wants to make stuff for it") was violently dismissed.

 

I'm not sure where this meme about GW losing the case has come from.

 

 

 

Upon independent examination, the Court finds that GW’s shoulder pads involve enough originality to afford them copyright protection. The unusually large proportional size of the shoulder pads as compared to the Space Marine’s head (depicted in GW’s product at entry 49) is a creative addition to the common shoulder pads sometimes worn by real-life soldiers in battle. The shoulder pads created to fit onto GW’s physical figurines, though more proportionally accurate, are nevertheless still larger and boxier than those typically found outside of the Warhammer 40,000 fantasy world. The Court thus concludes that GW is entitled to copyright protection as to the design of its shoulder pads.

 

 

 

A skull is not protectable on its own, but GW’s particular depiction of a Chaplain in entry 3, which includes a skull with red eyes that wears a helmet, is copyrightable.

[Rik Lightstar]

Quite a shame, but it looks like Administratum.net is shutting up shop over this, it was a fantastic web-based tool for managing Crusade Forces.

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/40k_Crusade/comments/op6k3m/administratum_will_shut_down_in_90_days/

 

Seems like something of a knee-jerk reaction to me, but also completely understandable as it's a solo passion project and he likely can't be bothered with the stress of wondering IF he'll get a C&D and have to close up immediately with no way for users to get their data.

 

Rik