Impulsor for Bladeguard Veterans?

[Karhedron]

I have been running a squad of 5 BGVs for my Space Wolves lately, usually accompanied by an IC at 1000 points. I have been very impressed by these guys and want to carry them over into larger games.

 

At 1000 points, foot slogging has worked well on small boards. In larger games, do people find BGVs on foot still hold up or does an Impulsor for delivery really become a necessity?

 

I have put this in the general Marine forum rather than the SW one as I think that BGVs work pretty similarly in most Chapters. I would be interested to hear how they have been working for other players.

[CCE1981]

I found that the Indomitus Captain can't keep up with the Bladeguard.  I think he needs to have a Jump Pack to catch back up with the Bladeguard after they murder something to death.

 

How are you running them?  I take Whirlwind of Rage and Born Heroes.  Add in a Librarian and Stratagem and they hit more times than they swing.  The Captain having Hunter and Warrior Born.

Edited July 22, 2021 by CCE1981

[FinalCookie]

Currently, I don't think the Impulsor protects them well enough or carts them around fast enough to justify it's points cost. 

I'm running 2x5 Bladeguard in my White Scars list, and while YMMV, they are plenty fast on their own to do the things they are best at; being a center-board push threat or a reactive counter-charge unit. Having them on the board from the beginning means people are pouring fire into them as soon as possible, but they are tanky enough and pair well with Apothecaries and Ancients that this isn't really a bad thing, and often means other threats are de-prioritized during shooting and allowing the rest of the army to perform well.

 

I almost exclusively play at the 2000 point level, which might also change up how they get used and targeted.

[Ishagu]

Put 5 hellblasters in an Impulsor and use that as an attention grabbing unit whilst you walk the Bladeguard up.

 

Edit: Typo fix

Edited July 23, 2021 by Ishagu

[Blindhamster]

Currently, I don't think the Impulsor protects them well enough or carts them around fast enough to justify it's points cost. 

 

I'm running 2x5 Bladeguard in my White Scars list, and while YMMV, they are plenty fast on their own to do the things they are best at; being a center-board push threat or a reactive counter-charge unit. Having them on the board from the beginning means people are pouring fire into them as soon as possible, but they are tanky enough and pair well with Apothecaries and Ancients that this isn't really a bad thing, and often means other threats are de-prioritized during shooting and allowing the rest of the army to perform well.

 

I almost exclusively play at the 2000 point level, which might also change up how they get used and targeted.

with white scars its a bit different though. You can advance and charge. Thats a huge reason to ignore transports compared to other chapters

[Captain Idaho]

Walking the Bladeguard is very inefficient, don't do it outside specific Chapters. Not if you're expecting to get good combat out of them. If you're not taking them in a list that isn't 3×3 units on objectives for cheese then you're wasting points by marching them unless you're up against melee oriented foes.

 

What larger units can do is survive long enough with Transhuman Physiology (the single best unit in the game to receive that benefit thanks a 2+ save, 4+ Invulnerable and 3 wounds at T4) and their 15-18 wounds to munch through. So jumping out of an Impulsor turn one where you need them sets them up for turn 2 charges.

 

An Impulsor can easily survive 1 turn behind obscuring terrain then its purpose is fulfilled, since it is so generous getting up the table with its own movement then the 3" disembark followed by 6" movement.

 

Of course, stand infront of the enemy army and they'll die, but wouldn't that happen anyway if you walked 6" up the field for 3 turns...? ;)

Edited July 23, 2021 by Captain Idaho

[Sword Brother Adelard]

Black Templars have one of the best niche uses, where there is a way to get them into contact after disembarking, but it's not a charge move.

[SvenIronhand]

I would not suggest footslogging Bladeguard Veterans outside of chapters that can advance and charge. 

My Greymanes are Hungry for Battle and Born Heroes, but I splash in vehicles throughout. A 14'' move or 10'' (in the case of the Repulsor) is more than twice/4'' more than what the Bladeguard can move on their own. Even in White Scars or such Chapters, this cuts down on variance. You will not get the same advance roll every time, and this variance is what might kill you. Do you really want to entrust getting your Bladeguard in on a dice roll? Ultimately, it is a question of cutting down on variance.

 

Edited July 23, 2021 by SvenIronhand

[Swordsman]

I think it depends on the plan you have and and the list you setup To execute it.

 

The main task of my bladeguards is to advance hidden, take and hold objectives, while the gunline unleash an hailstorm of fire, and deep striking units penetrate the enemy territory.

 

As Fists player I can’t project my melee force to the enemy like BA,WS or RG. However in a game where holding objectives is crucial bladeguard, even on feet are great.

 

Usually Small board and aggressive enemies produce early engagement for my units.

 

An expensive impulsor for a bladeguard group, for sure can project them deep in the enemy zone but without an army capable of keep up with them, bladeguards (and the accompanying character) will find themselves isolated, surrounded and easily overwhelmed.

 

A full mechanized army, due to the high costs and the heavy nerf to impulsors (lost of fly has been huge) is virtually impassable, nowadays.

 

So, I think the right answer to the original question is “It depends” on the chapter you play and how you play it.

[SvenIronhand]

I think it depends on the plan you have and and the list you setup To execute it.

 

The main task of my bladeguards is to advance hidden, take and hold objectives, while the gunline unleash an hailstorm of fire, and deep striking units penetrate the enemy territory.

 

As Fists player I can’t project my melee force to the enemy like BA,WS or RG. However in a game where holding objectives is crucial bladeguard, even on feet are great.

 

Usually Small board and aggressive enemies produce early engagement for my units.

 

An expensive impulsor for a bladeguard group, for sure can project them deep in the enemy zone but without an army capable of keep up with them, bladeguards (and the accompanying character) will find themselves isolated, surrounded and easily overwhelmed.

 

A full mechanized army, due to the high costs and the heavy nerf to impulsors (lost of fly has been huge) is virtually impassable, nowadays.

 

So, I think the right answer to the original question is “It depends” on the chapter you play and how you play it.

As a famous traitor cavalryman once said, you've got to be the firstest with the mostest. 

 

Mechanizing your army helps with that. It doesn't have to be all mechanized, but your decisive assets need to be where they need to be.

[Karhedron]

Thanks for all the input, certainly gives me some food for thought.

 

In response to the some of the recent posts, at 1000 points, I tend to use my BGVs as a speartip. The boards are small so I can usually get into melee on T2, even foot slogging. Backup usually comes in the form of the Wolf Lord accompanying them, a Redemptor to bring some muscle and squad of ABR Intercessors with TH on the pack leader to mop up any left overs.

 

Swordsman hit the nail on the head really. Foot slogging BGV are fine with foot-slogging support. If I mech up the BGVs, I need to provide support who can keep up. I have some ideas in that area. A squad of WG with LC/SS and Jump Packs would have no trouble keeping up with the Impulsor and TDA WG can teleport in. A Primaris Biker Chaplain and WL on Biker or Thunderwolf might also be a good choice.

 

I think I will buy an Impulsor to experiment with. I need to find out if BGVs make as good a spear tip in larger games as they do in small ones. Then I need to work out suitable support for them. Fun, fun, fun!

[CCE1981]

In a 2,000 pt game my Bladeguard for my Successors, Born Heros and Whirlwind of Rage, killed a knight from their attacks alone turn 2. Chapter Master re-rolls, allowed me to re-roll everything not a 6, I hit more than I swung.

[Ishagu]

In fairness you absolutely can run them on foot. With the way boards and objectives are set up, you'll never be far from combat.

 

And if the opponent wants to focus them down, they take a lot of firepower - will leave your other infantry unharmed.

 

Have other units that can cause distraction and they'll be fine.

Edited July 24, 2021 by Ishagu

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

The Impulsor can do work. Shield dome is the way to go .

[Medjugorje]

Black Templars have one of the best niche uses, where there is a way to get them into contact after disembarking, but it's not a charge move.

 

Black Templars are the best chapter to use Impulsors by far.

But I think other chapters could use it too.