I'm struggling to keep my interest with Necrons

[Captain Idaho]

As per the title, I'm struggling to keep up with the Necrons. I'm just jaded now. Rules that are weaker than other Codex books by a long way, rules that are blander or require more book keeping and more conditions attached (Command Protocols), Reanimation Protocols that work worst with the most advanced Necrons (Warriors are best) or just a bland customisable army particularly characters.

 

Anyone else struggling? Adeptus Mechanicus, Drukhari and now Orks get more and better toys. Look at Doomsday Cannons for example.

 

Lastly, what's with the monopose models? 5 monopose Flayed Ones that need units of 20? 3 Skorpekh Destroyers in units that can be taken in multiples up to 5? What the hell?

[Mandragola]

If you're feeling this way, write to GW. They claim they listen to feedback.

 

I basically agree with everything you've said. The flayed ones seem a particular fail, with only 5 poses that are so distinctive, duplicates will be really obvious. I've managed to swap the arms around on my Skorpekhs without too much bother but that wouldn't be so easy with flayed ones due to the bits of skin linking pieces together.

 

Also, to be honest I don't think I'd ever take 20 flayed ones when I could take 10 sword and board Lychguard instead. A big melee unit like that needs to be really durable and/or have a way to deal with hard targets and I don't see these guys really surviving.

 

Command Protocols seem like almost a complete waste of time, with lots of effort for minimal effect. One of my favourite theoretical lists features two dynasties and it actually feels like a relief not to have to bother with CPs, rather than an important thing to have lost. That's not quite how things should be.

 

Reanimation protocols should just bring models back on a 5+. This system is overly complicated and has pretty odd effects.

 

I would add to your list a lacklustre set of Warlord traits and relics, largely pointless Cryptek arcana (compare that with Chapter command!) and a hopelessly un-balanced set of dynasties/traits (hello Eternal Expansionists!).

 

Overall, personally I think the army still looks interesting, and a fun challenge in the current environment. It's definitely weak though, compared to other stuff out there. It's unhelpful that pretty much none of our shooting units are any good, for example, though that might be fixed by some pretty radical points cuts. It's harder to sort out the cases where the rules themselves don't really work.

[Prot]

I completely understand Idaho.

 

I watched listened to a few very competitive (art of war) podcasts about Necrons. And then one on the meta that ranked competitive codexes in 9th. Essentially the best players in 40K are saying the Necrons codex is the weakest of all 9th edition codexes.

 

I do think as other codexes are coming out, Necrons are being left in the dust (pun intended) and as a result this forces us to rely on a very, very small section of the codex to even stay in the game with most 9th ed armies.

 

Let's assume that it's not just us, and at large the army is truly suffering, and all ready is done in the competitive meta.....

 

I still find it a very interesting codex to play. Overly massive Warrior bricks are a bit on the boring side, but I've found ways to really have some fun with the army. Just being honest here but I was getting so incredibly bored with marines! Marines are just so monochromatic in build for me. It's the same thing over and over, the same core units, the same HQ's, the same ideas, over and over. I kept winning with them but the level of brain power I was using... I could read a book while playing them. It was very formulaic.

 

With Necrons I have always loved the theme, and I really actually love the model line. I have been playing lists of 'extreme' designs lately. When I go full Assault, it's full assault. And I can win! (one warrior block is still mandatory).

 

I am trying Quantum parking lots, with canoptek builds.... stuff like that. It's stuff you just don't see in the common forums/battle reports. It really throws people for a loop. When I pull out my Ultramarines Gladiator list, it just feels so terrible, and far away from what really works. I just seem to enjoy the creativity in the Necrons more. They actually feel more dynamic to me. (I know this is extremely against the grain).

 

All of this said I think 40K is going off the rails big time for 9th ed. It's getting stupidly out of control (just my opinion.) I never liked GW wrestling back the competitive crowd from private entities, as a result the game is one dimensional. And sales are largely driven by creating just crazy codex rules, and new units are clearly untested.

 

So they have created this escalating end game that will write itself into an ugly corner. And why this is relevant to me is I simply dropped, or refuse to play these new codexes personally. They are so boring and overpowered, I wouldn't expect anyone to play me with them, and I think 'winning' like that without much thought, and in the list building portion of the game, is going to rot the game out. 

 

Why I mention this is Necrons are so far from that reality, that it keeps me interested. I like being the under dog. As long as I have a big, fleshed out codex with a lot of angles to try, I'm okay with this. Necrons are one of my very few Xenos armies I like. 

[Galron]

Its an interesting army to play but our two key abilities are ridiculously underpowered and silly. Command protocols should be all units on the board, not those within aura distance of certain characters. Marines dont have an aura requirement for their  much more powerful super doctrines, neither should we. The idea of reanimation protocols isnt bad at first glance but last editions was by far better. Its completely useless on anything but 1 wound models but yet we have to pay the points cost for it. At a minimum we should only have a 4+ roll on multi-wound models. Warriors are trash units in the fluff, reanimation if anything should not be more effective on them than it is for the better built elite units. 

 

They left us with stupidly swingy anti-tank- doomsday arks and walkers +tesseract ark and the Tomb Sentinel. All d6 shots with d6 damage. 

 

Flayed ones arent bad, provided you arent using them for their actual job. They are great for cheap deep strikers for various objectives.

 

I have found fun in playing non-standard theme lists. My current super highly mobile list doesnt have any of the above heavy choices and is made up of Anny Barges and a locust squad. With a Night Bringer I can put out some some mortals and aside from new orks, we still have the only area effect weapons I know of. I find units with damage mitigation mechanics struggle vs necrons. Death Guard for example, oh darn you drop damage to a minimum of 1, good thing the majority of my fire power is 1 damage but you are on your invuls. I have not dealt with the silly sisters and mechanicus armies that ignore ap -1 and -2 yet.

[Captain Idaho]

I've always loved Necrons and I'm beavering away at conversions for the army... but my problem is why bother? Flayed Ones are my next poet of call. I wanted 15-20 converted using Warriors (I shouldn't have to as we've already mentioned) using AoS Dryads things arms and a lot of modelling putty, but that's a graft that will end in me taking a unit that is fodder essentially (though not terrible, but as said, Sword and board Lychguard do a similar job better.

 

I will stick at them for now, but man I'm fed up. Seeing even the Ork weapons and stats is a drag!

 

I'm not one to quit too quietly so I will write a letter (who to I don't know as the studio doesn't have a direct line so to speak) and I would make it constructive, but man will it do anything? I hope so but GW will likely think "job's done with Necrons, here's the next Primaris wave."

Edited July 23, 2021 by Captain Idaho

[dice4thedicegod]

Flayed ones seem so poor for the points compared to choppa armed Ork boyz or beastsnagga boyz that it’s crazy.

 

Short of a new codex, necrons need points drops on a lot of units. (Not that it helps with flavor, compared to other 9th Ed codexes)

[Marshal Loss]

Totally feel you. While some earlier books are aging well (e.g. DG), Necrons are...not. The power level doesn't bother me necessarily, you can still win games with Necrons - and there's at least one build that can still compete at the highest levels - but it certainly doesn't feel equivalent to other books. Little things like DDAs still having D6 damage in a world where entropy cannons and dark lances and cognis lascannons exist makes little sense to me. I don't like command protocols, I don't like RP on units other than warriors, and I think that Destroyer cults could have been better incorporated into the army. Points drops can shunt an army into contention but that's not really what bothers me about the book.

 

I've basically written the book off as a casualty of 9th's power creep. Maybe a supplement later in 9th will shake things up, or maybe folks will just have to wait till 10th. But as somebody who isn't a diehard Necron player and who only bought in to tap in to some 3rd ed nostalgia, it's not a book I'm prepared to put the time into - maybe I'm just not the right audience.

[Captain Idaho]

No I think the fact you're not prepared to put time into it tells a story. You're exactly the audience GW should be listening to!

[dice4thedicegod]

I think it’s not just power, it just feels less attention paid to making “fluffy/lore inspired “ rules compared to others. (I kinda feel the same way about blood angels). Some books have married fluffiness to power without being broken (dark angels?). Others have fluffy rules and broken power (drukhari and admech). Necrons suffer from a deficiency in both.

[Captain Idaho]

I totally agree with that, very well said.

 

One thing I've noticed some folk, particularly some on YouTube, say regarding Reanimation Protocols is the rules as they are now at least grant a chance of RP when previously there was none for Elites units. This is a notion I contend.

 

9th edition isn't 8th edition. Obscuring Terrain means small Elites units can survive with a handful of casualties. Likewise, larger units can still survive to get Reanimation Protocols like previous versions of the rules at the beginning of each turn.

Edited July 23, 2021 by Captain Idaho

[Get Thokt]

The comparison of 20 Lucius Rangers to 20 Necron Warriors proves this is straight up codex creep.

 

8pts vs 13pts,

80 shots at 16.5" (33" for 40) vs 40 shots at 12",

with one character and a strong Doctrina, they can hit on 2s, re-roll 1s for the hit and wound roll,

not only are they a bigger threat, they are more resilient! Ignore AP 1 and 2, and get a 2+ save with transhuman

 

GW lied to the community, end of. All codexes were finalised at the same time to prevent imbalance, bull****. Just like when they said all PA books will be relevant in 9th. They just said that so they could keep selling and cover up their terrible selling strategy.

 

Anyway back to Necrons. We're basically heading back down to where we were in 8th edition, and will be there once all other factions have their codex.

Edited July 24, 2021 by Get Thokt

[dice4thedicegod]

Don’t forget their strat to do up to six mortal wound off rolling 6’s whereas the mephrit-only one is capped at three .

[Get Thokt]

Ha! And if you thought that was enough, nope! With a Manipulus using Artisans, you can add a further 6" range to the Rangers (39" for 40 shots, 19.5 for 80 shots now) with +1 Strength (S5) and +1AP (AP-2). At this point they are carrying Gauss Reapers with 39" range, or double the shots at 19.5"!

[Captain Idaho]

Necron tech should godly powerful. Absurdly so. Pointed correctly, but the most advanced race in all the galaxy, which defeated the Old Ones should represent immense power.

 

Sure I have NO PROBLEMS with our Warriors being just automatons and armed thematically such, but our big weapons and tech should be obscene.

[Lord_Ikka]

I'm really annoyed at the lack of good weaponry for dealing with high Toughness units. Having the DDA and Doomstalker cannons changed to d3+3 would help with the lack of anti-tank weaponry Necrons have. Give the Monolith some sort of invuln so it won't die in a blaze of fire as soon as the game starts might make them actually able to go toe-to-toe with a Knight (or at least damage one). 

 

I'd also personally like to have Immortals' guass blasters upped to damage 2 to give them a little more punch against multi-wound units- increase the price of the blasters to 2 points each and now you have some decent options/decisions to make about army composition. Do you take a warrior block to make use of their Reanimation toughness or Immortals to give you an offensive punch. Do your Immortals take chaff-destroying tesla or more expensive, yet damaging guass blasters? 

 

As is, the Necron melee components are fairly decent- Skorpekh, Wraiths, and Spyders all pull their weight while Ophydians and Flayed Ones are situational but useful. Some points drops on the Ophydians would make them much more attractive, right now they are expensive killers of chaff but Necrons don't lack chaff-killing weaponry.

 

Overall, there are some good things about Necrons, but they are definitely suffering the 1st codex curse, just as Grey Knights did in 8th.

[Captain Idaho]

I'd firstly shift Gauss Blasters to be an extra point of damage in half range but I'm actually okay with how they are as I feel they would just be the automatic pick. S5 and D2 is very potent.

 

Regardless mate I feel ya.

[Mordas]

I am riding out the rollercoaster of our codex now. When it first came out I thought it was well thought out and brought in alot of new stuff that really added flavour and choices for us. Sadly as time goes on this level of choice is shrinking rapidly and I agree with everything said here, we are quickly falling off of the cliff of the power creep. I wonder if we will get a warzone book update to bring us back into line? - it wouldnt surprise me with all the books GWS is trying to sell.

 

Next weekend I have my first tournament, I am taking my Necrons but after this event I can quickly see that they will return to the cupboard for a while allowing one of my other armies to get rotated to the forefront of my attention.

 

Our command protocols should not be restricted by an aura - instead just as long as you have a noble alive on the board would be alot better. I oftenly forget about the arua or find it just affects 1-2 units so ultimately pointless in the grand scheme of the game.

 

Flayed Ones - Can I just say how much I hated putting together the new models, I picked up the Pariah Nexus box which is the only reason I have them. They are fiddly and horrible little models and there is no way I would buy another 3 boxes to get 20 of these things! Though the 5 I have made it into my tournament list purely for dropping in and helping to score Oculus Data.

 

We need help for sure now, I think a warzone book to update a few things could restore us to a more competative position, if this doesn't happen it will be a slippery slope down to a lot of people giving up until the next codex.

[Prot]

I really can't disagree with anything that's being said here overall. 

 

I don't think a single weapon for necrons should be under S5 unless it is a pistol style weapon. This would be a cheap but effective way of saying, "Our tech is just better from the ground up. We don't fight with sticks and stones."

 

Admech was a brutal release to see (I sold my very large AM army after seeing the rules. It really turned me off)

 

Now the Orks being a ridiculous leap on top of AM, I really lost confidence in GW's 'system'. I still think 9th is a major step backwards. So with that being the case, it just feels like the next codex is just a little more crazy than the last, eventually ending with GW writing themselves into a corner.

 

Someone said a few months ago something that feels very true.. paraphrasing, they basically said Necrons feel like a codex that was written well before 9th edition with new 9th edition rules in mind, whereas the new codexes are fully capitalizing on all the nuances of 9th.

 

Biggest losers for me:

- Gauss should all be S5.

- Reanimation needs a tweak. The destructiveness of 9th is through the roof since this was initiated.

- Gauss 'tech' or the tech in general is far too dated. I miss the old days of having Gauss rules that showed the weapon was always potentially immensely powerful (IE: sixes always 'glanced' vehicles in the old days) How about something like all Gauss on a to wound of '6' does 3 damage? Fun, but cool ideas like that are gone.

- As pointed out the command protocols are almost useless, and the finicky nature of them make them very cumbersome.

- I also think Overlords are too weak. Crypteks too. Half of the Crypteks

- Speaking of Crypteks... how terrible are Cryptek Arkana? I used to try all of these... basically they should be free options or just entirely rewritten. 

 

For a 'current' codex there's far too much of this. 

[dice4thedicegod]

Thinking of hq’s… the skorpekh lord is so overcosted and uncustomizable … a shame

[Mandragola]

I've always loved Necrons and I'm beavering away at conversions for the army... but my problem is why bother? Flayed Ones are my next poet of call. I wanted 15-20 converted using Warriors (I shouldn't have to as we've already mentioned) using AoS Dryads things arms and a lot of modelling putty, but that's a graft that will end in me taking a unit that is fodder essentially (though not terrible, but as said, Sword and board Lychguard do a similar job better.

 

I will stick at them for now, but man I'm fed up. Seeing even the Ork weapons and stats is a drag!

 

I'm not one to quit too quietly so I will write a letter (who to I don't know as the studio doesn't have a direct line so to speak) and I would make it constructive, but man will it do anything? I hope so but GW will likely think "job's done with Necrons, here's the next Primaris wave."

The email address you can use is 40kFAQ@gwplc.com. In theory that's for the FAQs, but since FAQs and errata are basically the same thing, I think it works.

Thinking of hq’s… the skorpekh lord is so overcosted and uncustomizable … a shame

It really feels like the codex wasn't designed with the Indomitus characters in mind. It's so frustrating to have a (relatively) badass melee character like the Skorpekh Lord, who can't be upgraded because none of the weapon relics work for him. Same for the overlord, who has a new type of sharp stick and therefore isn't allowed the relic warscythes and the plasmancer (and other crypteks) who can't have the voltaic staff. These issues could all be fixed by just opening up the list of weapons that can be replaced by those relics.

[Trollbeard]

I feel like the Skorpehk lord should be way more kill-y then he is… an intercessor Sargent shouldn’t have the same output with a power fist or thunder hammer.

 

It’s annoying when I look at my buddies DE, and he has a 80 point succubus spitting out 12 attacks, hitting and wounding on 2s. Or space marine characters in general having a boat load of attacks. I rarely tech into my necron characters because they are so lacklustre.

[Captain Idaho]

Thinking of hq’s… the skorpekh lord is so overcosted and uncustomizable … a shame

GW had moved away from customisable kits nowadays. Monopose or go home, sadly.

 

But I totally agree. Plus he's just not very killy. Look at the size of it but I known I'm more scared of a Marine Captain which is half the size.

[dice4thedicegod]

 

Thinking of hq’s… the skorpekh lord is so overcosted and uncustomizable … a shame

GW had moved away from customisable kits nowadays. Monopose or go home, sadly.

 

But I totally agree. Plus he's just not very killy. Look at the size of it but I known I'm more scared of a Marine Captain which is half the size.

Yeah, compared to what a marine captain or chaplain, or an Ork warboss can do (for less points), it’s kinda crazy.

 

Definitely doesn’t give the feeling of hyper advanced beings, who have gone mad and over eons optimized themselves to be perfect killing machines.

[Prot]

I forgot about the Skorpekh Lord. Beautiful model.... extremely lethargic on the table.

 

You guys are really killing my enthusiasm to keep painting this army! lol

 

And I don't say that in a negative way because I know all of these things, but the only Xenos I've ever liked is Eldar/Necrons. I mostly played Eldar years and years ago, but to me Necrons have this amazing background developing (currently as well) and I guess until Eldar get new models, this is it for my Xenos projects.

 

I am definitely bummed out too. I was just looking at the tournament scene as a reference and aside from troops (which let's be honest is not exactly flexible) I'm really not interested in a lot of the units that do compete at a higher level.

[Perry]

I agree Necrons are distinctly average compared to newer codexes, however Necrons are still my go to army for a casual game.

 

The army is easy to play, easy to paint, looks great and has a nice mix of units for various playstyles.

 

I'm currently focusing on close combat lists with plenty of deep strike, although I've just assembled three Heavy Destroyers that I hope to include soon.

 

And on a final bright note you'll have no problems finding opponents to play after everyone gets fed up playing against Admech or Dark Elder.