Grey Knight 9th Edition Codex Rumors?

[Ichar]

Has anyone seen any rumors for how the Grey Knights will be changing in 9th in their new codex? Thanks.

[Skywrath]

Nothing definitive yet, sadly. Other than the introduction of the Brotherhood Keyword, nothing has been confirmed. I even doubt the possibility we will even get the CORE keyword limitations.

[Waking Dreamer]

What we have figured out is that the <SANCTIC ASTARTES> keyword will replace the <ADEPTUS ASTARTES> keyword.

 

And that GK will have a completely new upgrade system based points.

 

Wisdom of the Prognosticars

 

Visions of the Augurium

- Augury of Aggression......+20 pts

- Heroism's Favour............+15 pts

- A Noble Death.................+20 pts

- Omen of Incursion...........+30 pts

- Presaged Paralysis...........+15 pts

- Foretelling of Locus.........+30 pts

 

Gifts of the Prescient

- True Name Shard............+10 pts

- Temporal Bombs.............+15 pts

- Servant of the Throne.....+20 pts

- Deluminator of Majesty...+15 pts

- Gem of Inoktu................+15 pts

- Severance Bolt...............+30 pts

 

Nothing definitive yet, sadly. Other than the introduction of the Brotherhood Keyword, nothing has been confirmed. I even doubt the possibility we will even get the CORE keyword limitations.

 

Doesn't every 9E Codex include the CORE keyword?

[Skywrath]

What we have figured out is that the <SANCTIC ASTARTES> keyword will replace the <ADEPTUS ASTARTES> keyword.

 

And that GK will have a completely new upgrade system based points.

 

Wisdom of the Prognosticars

 

Visions of the Augurium

- Augury of Aggression......+20 pts

- Heroism's Favour............+15 pts

- A Noble Death.................+20 pts

- Omen of Incursion...........+30 pts

- Presaged Paralysis...........+15 pts

- Foretelling of Locus.........+30 pts

 

Gifts of the Prescient

- True Name Shard............+10 pts

- Temporal Bombs.............+15 pts

- Servant of the Throne.....+20 pts

- Deluminator of Majesty...+15 pts

- Gem of Inoktu................+15 pts

- Severance Bolt...............+30 pts

 

Nothing definitive yet, sadly. Other than the introduction of the Brotherhood Keyword, nothing has been confirmed. I even doubt the possibility we will even get the CORE keyword limitations.

 

Doesn't every 9E Codex include the CORE keyword?

 

Correct, but consider this. Thanks btw for updating the other bits I forgot about regarding updates.

 

Currently, the meta is very much horde style armies - AdMech, Drukhari, DG with Poxwalkers, and Orks are shaping up to be the next best thing. CORE limitation at it's core is a nerf to efficiency in elite armies. Custodes/GKs are both super-elite, as you know, and our range is smaller than the typical elite army. Aside from some limitations to rhino's/razorbacks etc, do you really think they would slap that on top of us, when you have all the aforementioned running around. There has to be a trade-off somewhere right, because I don't think even GW is that short-sighted, letting one archetype dominate the scene.   

Edited July 30, 2021 by Skywrath

[Waking Dreamer]

I'm pretty confident we'll still be under the CORE keyword limitations - as it is a prominent distinction between 8E and 9E.

 

CORE units will include:

- Strike Squad

- Purifier Squad

- Purgation Squad

- Interceptor Squad

- Terminator Squad

- Paladin Squad

- Dreadnought

- Venerable Dreadnought

- Nemesis Dreadknight

 

The rest of the codex won't have CORE as it would be inline with the precedent 9E codexes.

 

If GW's aim is to give us unique buffs in our 9E Codex it would be through changes in: Masters of the Warp, Brotherhood of Psykers, <BROTHERHOOD> Sub-factions, and the Wisdom of the Prognosticars upgrades that we know of so far.

[Skywrath]

I'm pretty confident we'll still be under the CORE keyword limitations - as it is a prominent distinction between 8E and 9E.

 

CORE units will include:

- Strike Squad

- Purifier Squad

- Purgation Squad

- Interceptor Squad

- Terminator Squad

- Paladin Squad

- Dreadnought

- Venerable Dreadnought

- Nemesis Dreadknight

 

The rest of the codex won't have CORE as it would be inline with the precedent 9E codexes.

 

If GW's aim is to give us unique buffs in our 9E Codex it would be through changes in: Masters of the Warp, Brotherhood of Psykers, <BROTHERHOOD> Sub-factions, and the Wisdom of the Prognosticars upgrades that we know of so far.

 

Thanks for at least considering my point.

[Skywrath]

Alright boys and gals, feast your eyes on some of our new rules!!!

 

 

 

 

 

Wowee, that wardmakers projection of purity.... holy mackerel. That's insanely strong! 

 

Swordbearers look interesting, especially with GMNDK's/NDK's on top of that.

 

Fatal Precognition, I love it! Ironically I predicted that with my Sanctified ground fluff, but god am I Glad to see that!

Edited August 2, 2021 by Skywrath

[The Woodsman]

Woop woop! 

 

Brotherhood specific powers... nice! All three are cool, the Wardmakers (3rd) one could be really, really strong in certain situations (I'm thinking versus Ad Mech!? or SM FnP bubbles, etc.). The other two seem decent, +1 to wound against a target for Vehicles is ok, could be really good if you're running GMDKs and/or Land Raiders (I love 'em!) and are up against a nasty tarpit unit like Deathwing Knights, or against Chaos Knights or something. The Prescient Brethren one I find is very situationnal... with a 12" range you'd probably use it for is punishing a vehicle or character for falling back if it survives combat? It could deter a charge but to be fair even 3 MW won't stop most units from doing what they need to do... again could be useful if a unit survives on 1-2 models and is looking to go for an objective. 

 

What really spikes my interest is the wording on the Prescient Brethren and Swordbearers powers.... A unit can only be selected for this power once per phase. Does this mean Grey Knights (and maybe TS too?) will gain an ability that allows them to cast powers more than once per phase?

[Skywrath]

Woop woop! 

 

Brotherhood specific powers... nice! All three are cool, the Wardmakers (3rd) one could be really, really strong in certain situations (I'm thinking versus Ad Mech!? or SM FnP bubbles, etc.). The other two seem decent, +1 to wound against a target for Vehicles is ok, could be really good if you're running GMDKs and/or Land Raiders (I love 'em!) and are up against a nasty tarpit unit like Deathwing Knights, or against Chaos Knights or something. The Prescient Brethren one I find is very situationnal... with a 12" range you'd probably use it for is punishing a vehicle or character for falling back if it survives combat? It could deter a charge but to be fair even 3 MW won't stop most units from doing what they need to do... again could be useful if a unit survives on 1-2 models and is looking to go for an objective. 

 

What really spikes my interest is the wording on the Prescient Brethren and Swordbearers powers.... A unit can only be selected for this power once per phase. Does this mean Grey Knights (and maybe TS too?) will gain an ability that allows them to cast powers more than once per phase?

 

Let's face it, we both knew wardmakers is going to be the strongest one haha. Fluff wise that's also accurate to Voldus, Kaldor as they are both from that brotherhood..

 

Yes, that ability is a direct middle finger to the Admech and Drukhari, that alone might actually switch the meta back to elites. I don't expect AdMech to like us very much after that ability. The +1 to wound ability is meh, like you pointed out, is good for GMNDK's only, really. But where I disagree is the Prescient Bretheren is also very strong with one unit: Interceptors. Shunt them in movement phase, and just absolute punish them for even moving (again, thinking of Admech or Drukhari). In fact this ability would work very damn well with aggressive armies such as Harlequins or Emperor's children. The MW on top is just extra really. Also is very fluffy, as interceptors are the focus of the prescient brotherhood, if I remember my fluff.

 

Your last sentence makes a valid point, I think what they were trying to do is that in the case of multiple detachments from the same brotherhood, you still can only cast that ability once. However, based of this line, I can already see us not using our full 12CP, as we would want detachments that have access to more than one brotherhood psychic power.

[The Woodsman]

We'll have to see what restrictions apply to Brotherhoods/army composition. 

 

I get your point about the Prescient Bretheren one. Things like 5-man Troupes will hate stacking d3 Mortals for each time they move/charge/fall back. You could potentially wipe the unit if they advance towards those interceptors and charge, lolz. Still, I agree that for now at least the 3rd seems the stronger choice, and like you said considering Voldus, Stern and Draigo come from the 3rd will probably be the go-to for competitive play... we haven't seen a Warlord Trait, Relic or Stratagem (assuming there will be some for the Brotherhoods) yet though. So pumped for this.

[Skywrath]

We'll have to see what restrictions apply to Brotherhoods/army composition. 

 

I get your point about the Prescient Bretheren one. Things like 5-man Troupes will hate stacking d3 Mortals for each time they move/charge/fall back. You could potentially wipe the unit if they advance towards those interceptors and charge, lolz. Still, I agree that for now at least the 3rd seems the stronger choice, and like you said considering Voldus, Stern and Draigo come from the 3rd will probably be the go-to for competitive play... we haven't seen a Warlord Trait, Relic or Stratagem (assuming there will be some for the Brotherhoods) yet though. So pumped for this.

 

I know right! It's our first preview, and those rules.. holy they are straight fire. I'm boarding the 11.43pm express to hypeville after seeing that!

[The Woodsman]

Yup I'll see you there lol. 

 

Just reading the Warhammer Community page now... this is pretty cool: These subfaction psychic powers are taken in addition to the powers they already know, empowering your Psykers without taking anything away.

[Corvus Fortis]

 

 

Wowee, that wardmakers projection of purity.... holy mackerel. That's insanely strong! 

 

I'd argue, it would've been very strong in 8, but now deathstar units are way less common and there's way less auras in game, but more "pick unit" buffs instead. I'd place it at "just good" level of strength. 

 

Not very impressed by casts so far. They look okay-ish. Better than most Santic casts, but worse than Dominus.

[Skywrath]

 

 

 

Wowee, that wardmakers projection of purity.... holy mackerel. That's insanely strong! 

 

I'd argue, it would've been very strong in 8, but now deathstar units are way less common and there's way less auras in game, but more "pick unit" buffs instead. I'd place it at "just good" level of strength. 

 

Not very impressed by casts so far. They look okay-ish. Better than most Santic casts, but worse than Dominus.

 

 

The counter-argument to that is, in any list, you still will have one element of a deathstar, at least for my Dark Angels. If I am running Deathwing, I have 1 x 10 terminator blob or knights to do that for me. If I run Ravenwing, that would usually be my Black Knights. Deathstars are still pretty much a thing of 9th, but they aren't front and centre as they were in 8th, in your own words (ofc with the caveat that you weren't building your army list like that). So with this in mind, if I were to rate that ability, I'd put it at A tier.

 

The other two abilities are deceiving, imho. The GMNDK through 9th, has seen many revisions through either pts cost reductions or ability to make it viable. There is a very real possibility GMNDK's might see something new that could make them a meta pick, and with that on top? Could be spicy. The other ability with movement is an ability that will require a high skill ceiling - I envision this ability to be used when a unit is crippled and to kill them before they nab an objective. Again, seems to be tailor made towards Drukhari/Admech. 

Edited August 2, 2021 by Skywrath

[Corvus Fortis]

Deathstars are still pretty much a thing of 9th, but they aren't front and centre as they were in 8th

 

 

And that's exactly why I think it is "just good" instead of "insanely strong". If it could turn off any buffs it would be, but, as I mentined, aura abilities are less common now. If we take currently very common blob of 20 vanguard/ranger skitarii, they will only lose reroll's to-hit/wound from magos/marshalls, but still keep stuff like doctrina imperatives and stratagems. 

[Skywrath]

 

Deathstars are still pretty much a thing of 9th, but they aren't front and centre as they were in 8th

 

 

And that's exactly why I think it is "just good" instead of "insanely strong". If it could turn off any buffs it would be, but, as I mentined, aura abilities are less common now. If we take currently very common blob of 20 vanguard/ranger skitarii, they will only lose reroll's to-hit/wound from magos/marshalls, but still keep stuff like doctrina imperatives and stratagems. 

 

 

Yeah, calling it insanely strong by that logic was too far.. however we are still only barely halfway through the codex releases, and there might be more factions that rely on aura's than the ones we know about..

[WAR]

With the sheer amount of Vehicles I have I decided to switch back to the 1st Brotherhood. And the posted pychic power is odd.  + 1 to wound on vehicles is nice on GMNDK and NDK but considering most of my Vehicles (Dreadnoughts, Land Raiders, Razorbacks, Storm Raven, Stormtalon, Stormhawk) have high strength weapons it will be odd.

[Skywrath]

With the sheer amount of Vehicles I have I decided to switch back to the 1st Brotherhood. And the posted pychic power is odd.  + 1 to wound on vehicles is nice on GMNDK and NDK but considering most of my Vehicles (Dreadnoughts, Land Raiders, Razorbacks, Storm Raven, Stormtalon, Stormhawk) have high strength weapons it will be odd.

 

Welcome back to the ranks of the Grey Knights 

 

This got me thinking actually. With 9th, GW seems to be going out of their way to make GMDNk's competitive due to their pts cost being nerfed (buffed?) more than once. I'm wagering there is a super spicy strat in our book that makes GMNDK's a meta pick that with this, would make this brotherhood a good choice. However, that in itself (if true) would make this particular brotherhood selection compared to others a bit lacklustre compared to the other options..

Edited August 2, 2021 by Skywrath

[WAR]

 

With the sheer amount of Vehicles I have I decided to switch back to the 1st Brotherhood. And the posted pychic power is odd.  + 1 to wound on vehicles is nice on GMNDK and NDK but considering most of my Vehicles (Dreadnoughts, Land Raiders, Razorbacks, Storm Raven, Stormtalon, Stormhawk) have high strength weapons it will be odd.

 

Welcome back to the ranks of the Grey Knights 

 

This got me thinking actually. With 9th, GW seems to be going out of their way to make GMDNk's competitive due to their pts cost being nerfed (buffed?) more than once. I'm wagering there is a super spicy strat in our book that makes GMNDK's a meta pick that with this, would make this brotherhood a good choice. However, that in itself (if true) would make this particular brotherhood selection compared to others a bit lacklustre compared to the other options..

 

 

Depends on the vehicle load out. High Rate of fire weapons will be great since a majority of them have low strength. High Strength weapons its very lackluster. But if I am reading it right it will also benefit melee attacks also. 

 

I think in my regular group the 4th Brotherhood would be the Winner of the 3. 

[Trollbeard]

 

 

 

 

With the sheer amount of Vehicles I have I decided to switch back to the 1st Brotherhood. And the posted pychic power is odd. + 1 to wound on vehicles is nice on GMNDK and NDK but considering most of my Vehicles (Dreadnoughts, Land Raiders, Razorbacks, Storm Raven, Stormtalon, Stormhawk) have high strength weapons it will be odd.

Welcome back to the ranks of the Grey Knights

 

This got me thinking actually. With 9th, GW seems to be going out of their way to make GMDNk's competitive due to their pts cost being nerfed (buffed?) more than once. I'm wagering there is a super spicy strat in our book that makes GMNDK's a meta pick that with this, would make this brotherhood a good choice. However, that in itself (if true) would make this particular brotherhood selection compared to others a bit lacklustre compared to the other options..

Depends on the vehicle load out. High Rate of fire weapons will be great since a majority of them have low strength. High Strength weapons its very lackluster. But if I am reading it right it will also benefit melee attacks also.

 

I think in my regular group the 4th Brotherhood would be the Winner of the 3.

It states “Ranged attack” in the description, sadly no melee bonus for GMNDK/NDK

[Captain Coolpants]

Fatal precognition sounds really funny. Punishing a unity for each move amuses me.

[WAR]

 

 

 

 

 

With the sheer amount of Vehicles I have I decided to switch back to the 1st Brotherhood. And the posted pychic power is odd. + 1 to wound on vehicles is nice on GMNDK and NDK but considering most of my Vehicles (Dreadnoughts, Land Raiders, Razorbacks, Storm Raven, Stormtalon, Stormhawk) have high strength weapons it will be odd.

Welcome back to the ranks of the Grey Knights

 

This got me thinking actually. With 9th, GW seems to be going out of their way to make GMDNk's competitive due to their pts cost being nerfed (buffed?) more than once. I'm wagering there is a super spicy strat in our book that makes GMNDK's a meta pick that with this, would make this brotherhood a good choice. However, that in itself (if true) would make this particular brotherhood selection compared to others a bit lacklustre compared to the other options..

Depends on the vehicle load out. High Rate of fire weapons will be great since a majority of them have low strength. High Strength weapons its very lackluster. But if I am reading it right it will also benefit melee attacks also.

 

I think in my regular group the 4th Brotherhood would be the Winner of the 3.

It states “Ranged attack” in the description, sadly no melee bonus for GMNDK/NDK

Damn. Missed that part

[The Woodsman]

To be honest, a +1 to wound on vehicles can actually be really scary. Even Land Raiders, with S9 Lascannons, can now wound Mortarion on 2s, other Vehicles on 2s... even the dreaded Blightlord Terminators on 2s... and most Infantry/Elites on 2s with their Heavy Bolters. LRCs will have a field day against large units of Infantry, wounding most stuff on 3s and 2s... even getting to wound Orks on 4s with Hurricane Bolters. As far as Dreadknights go, we'll have to see what other buffs we can apply to their psiweapons, but an additional +1 to wound could go a long way. Granted, you'll need to be fielding a fair few vehicles to get the most mileage out of the power, which could force list-building if you want to go down that route. The comparison with the 3rd is that regardless of your list, and against most opponents, that power has great potential. Even without a tarpit or deathstar - take for example my buddy who plays UM, usually fielding a large unit of Hellblasters backed up by Chief Apothecary, Ancient and Bobby G. All of sudden, you're turning off a layer of defence, removing their ability to punish you for each kill and shutting off the huge force multiplier for whoever survives... and if Grey Knights do get to cast the same power more than once per turn... that is huge denial potential. Can't wait to see what else is in store!

[Skywrath]

To be honest, a +1 to wound on vehicles can actually be really scary. Even Land Raiders, with S9 Lascannons, can now wound Mortarion on 2s, other Vehicles on 2s... even the dreaded Blightlord Terminators on 2s... and most Infantry/Elites on 2s with their Heavy Bolters. LRCs will have a field day against large units of Infantry, wounding most stuff on 3s and 2s... even getting to wound Orks on 4s with Hurricane Bolters. As far as Dreadknights go, we'll have to see what other buffs we can apply to their psiweapons, but an additional +1 to wound could go a long way. Granted, you'll need to be fielding a fair few vehicles to get the most mileage out of the power, which could force list-building if you want to go down that route. The comparison with the 3rd is that regardless of your list, and against most opponents, that power has great potential. Even without a tarpit or deathstar - take for example my buddy who plays UM, usually fielding a large unit of Hellblasters backed up by Chief Apothecary, Ancient and Bobby G. All of sudden, you're turning off a layer of defence, removing their ability to punish you for each kill and shutting off the huge force multiplier for whoever survives... and if Grey Knights do get to cast the same power more than once per turn... that is huge denial potential. Can't wait to see what else is in store!

 

Woodman is right - wounding on 2's even against T5 units (which the game doesn't seem to have a shortage off recently), while not necessary is a nice thing to have. However, even not accounting for my oversight that this applies to ranged attacks, this presents two interesting possibilities. Currently the heavy psycannon is S7, -1AP, 2 damage, with the recent changes, you can expect it to go up a point of AP, and strength. However this is also problematic, as GMNDK don't interact with tides, currently - is that rule an indicator they won't be benefiting from tides?

[Gnomeo]

Am only so so about fatal precognition. Don't get me wrong right situation it could be amazing. But a 50% chance of doing dmg really sucks. I think it would have been greatly improved by having 2-3 do 1 mortal wound