Grey Knight 9th Edition Codex Rumors?

[RedemptionNL]

 

 

 

Sure but that's already been said 50 times and it's not the point. Every defensive buff goes further on terminators, if I can find out what works with them best than find a way to mix them with strikes it may be a more consistent build than pagk everywhere. No one knows until they have tried it.

How is it not the point if that’s exactly what the posts above are discussing? PAGK vs Terms. Doesn’t take much reading comprehension to see the disparity between them and that speaks badly of the codex. Finding broken combos doesn’t mean it’s a good codex? Since when is having a few OP combos mean the codex is fine? That is just begging for nerfs later anyway. Of course we can make the crap work and find strong builds, no ones is denying that, but there are issues here that need to be addressed to make a better codex.

 

So what do you think the points should be? Regular space marine terminators are 38 points if I remember right with 2 attacks 3 on the charge and a power fist that is -1 to hit and a storm bolter. So for 4 points more you get a smite and or a re-roll to damage 3 attacks, and a flat 2 damage -2 +2 str weapon. I think that is pretty fair, and that is just the stat lines no buffs ect.

 

Strike marines are 22 points eh maybe a little cheap but they are on a space marine stat line and considered vets. SM vets are around 19 points, with similar stats and 2 attacks base 3 on the charge adding lightning claws or a chain sword will bump that up to 3 base 4 on the charge. So for 4 points we pay for a teleport and psychic power. Yeah maybe bump them to 23 point. Have to see them in action first.

 

But looking for a nerf before the book is even out and just listening to people on the internet is probably the wrong way to go about coming to a conclusion.

 

See now, THIS is the way to debate. Great points and great way to see how difficult is to find the right balance. I’d argue that GW isn’t pointing things comparing across codexes so SM terms shouldn’t be a factor but well hard not to. Having said that, I’d venture that SM terms are grossly over coated themselves and that’s another problem. How to reconcile this disparity with strikes? Who knows. It’s hard to balance strikes and terms because unlike other marines they are ad to ally the SAME dude with a different suit or armor. My personal take is that terminators across the board should be 1/3 more expensive than the corresponding codex vet. I think they are about that much better but not twice as good. So, if an SM vet is 19 then terms maybe 27-30 tops. If strikes are 22 then GK terms 33-35? That seems balanced to me.

 

I would not disagree with that, I’d think that would be fair balance. The only issue that I would see is that GW has said publicly that they use SM’s as their base line now how that involves the GKs one could only assume that the points we are seeing are based on a veteran marine with additional points for psychic and special close combat weapons albeit I would argue that they are not as powerful as the d3 but that is a discussion for later.

 

Points wise for terminators vs strikes hmm I wish I knew the formula that they use for figuring this out then I could give a better answer. Right now all I really can do is crunch number for regular marines and compare them to GK. What i don’t understand and will have to see what the codex says are the paladins and there points. They jump 5 points and what I have seen does not represent the points cost increase. If SM terminators were 30 points or so and ours were 42 yes I would be jumping up and down, but for 4 points I’m not seeing that as an issue. I do agree with you that the points don’t make sense between terminators and strikes or tac marines and terminators. But through both books it appears that GW is putting a high cost on an invulnerable save and a 2+ save.

 

I think a good comparison unit would be the updated Scarab Ocult Terminators. Almost the same profile, both have obsec and can cast psychic powers and the updated kopesh is the same profile as a Nemesis sword.

 

Advantages the Brotherhood Terminators have: is a Troops choice, Justicar has extra attack over Sorcerer, more melee weapon options, Aegis.

Advantages the Occult Terminators have: much better AP on their ranged weapons, extra leadership, fearless, All is Dust, more psychic buffs, -1 damage strat (and other good strats).

 

The Occult Terminators are 2 points cheaper and appear to be a very solid choice for 1KS. I'd argue they're a little bit better than the GK termies even without taking point costs into regards, but that might be my personal bias. Still, would seem fair to see GK terminators a few points cheaper as well - 37-40 points each seems pretty decent. But we'll have to wait until the next Chapter Approved to see if GW agrees.

[Grimlock]

Well let me tell you just played my first game with the new book holy crap can it put the hurt in someone. Went up against an ultramarine with two bricks of the shield guys forgot there name and 2 brick of aggressors and some other nasty stuff I allowed him to go over 70 points to stress the list. The blade guard vers push the mid and were decimated by two strike teams with chaplain buff and in the tide of convergence. They had hammer hand and used the rapier straw and psychic power. Very very nasty they just evaporated. I did find the terminators, I brought two squads of 5 did not carry their weight.

 

All stars were the Interceptors and strikes.

 

Final score was 92 / 73 and my opponent was pretty good.

 

I could not believe the amount of damage that was coming from the combat phase. The army feels smoother, and I am did not feel like I was relying on the psychic buffs as much if they went off great if not I still was in a good place. Command points were a problem I chewed threw them ver fast and by turn 3 was CP starved. I want to try adding a patrol with the brotherhood that will give you a CP see if that will help.

 

We are definitely not the shooting army we once were. DK and GMDK were ok and that was about it for them. They never made it to combat the strike would wipe the unit los out before they would attack. So that was my first experience with them. As soon as BattleScribe updates I’ll be happy to post the list I ran forever time to look at. I have a meeting tomorrow with my team for an upcoming tournament we will be doing some stress tests and I’ll let everyone know how it turns out.

 

Happy gaming!

 

Sorry for the spelling and grammar long day late night.

[Schurge]

@Grimlock In what way did the Terminators not hold their weight?

[Grimlock]

@Grimlock In what way did the Terminators not hold their weight?

What I mean is that they never got there points back. They were decimated turn two by the redemptors heavy plasma and they had trouble holding the mid board. The army feels very fast but the terminators with a 5” move just couldn’t keep up or get into a good charge range. I’ll tell you this gate is differently not a guarantee anymore. lol

[Sweetcurse]

Well my preorder won’t arrive until Wednesday. Ugh.

[corwindal5]

I have been doing well with 3 man paladin squads. Very versatile and just as much output in cc as 6 man strike squad and way more survivable.

[Grimlock]

I have been doing well with 3 man paladin squads. Very versatile and just as much output in cc as 6 man strike squad and way more survivable.

Maybe there is a strat or something that I have not seen, I don’t have the book yet so I was playing off of my notes and reviews.

[techsoldaten]

I have been doing well with 3 man paladin squads. Very versatile and just as much output in cc as 6 man strike squad and way more survivable.

 

Do tell. How are they equipped, what powers, what brotherhood are you running?

[Grimlock]

I’m having some trouble handling the -1 damage that certain armies have like Death Guard. Looking for some advice on how to deal with them. I am running a strike heavy with with 2 ah NVM lol I’ll post the list lol

 

+++ Grey Knights (Warhammer 40,000 9th Edition) [113 PL, 1,988pts, 8CP] +++

 

++ Patrol Detachment -2CP (Imperium - Grey Knights) [24 PL, 435pts, -2CP] ++

 

+ Configuration [-2CP] +

 

Brotherhood: Precient Berthern

 

Detachment Command Cost [-2CP]

 

+ HQ [17 PL, 325pts] +

 

Brotherhood Chaplain [6 PL, 110pts]: 1. Words of Power, 5: Warp Shaping

 

Grand Master in Nemesis Dreadknight [11 PL, 215pts]: 2: Empyric Amplification, 5: Warp Shaping, Dreadfist, Dreadknight teleporter [10pts], Gatling Psilencer [20pts], Heavy Psycannon [20pts], Nemesis Greatsword [15pts]

 

+ Troops [7 PL, 110pts] +

 

Strike Squad [7 PL, 110pts]

Grey Knight (Psilencer) [22pts]

3x Grey Knight (Sword) [66pts]: 3x Nemesis Force Sword, 3x Storm Bolter

Grey Knight Justicar [22pts]

Nemesis Force Sword

 

++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Imperium - Grey Knights) [89 PL, 1,553pts, 10CP] ++

 

+ Configuration [12CP] +

 

Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points) [12CP]

 

Brotherhood: Blades of Victory

 

Detachment Command Cost

 

+ Stratagems [-1CP] +

 

Armoury of Titan [-1CP]: 1 Additional Relic [-1CP]

 

+ HQ [18 PL, 343pts, -1CP] +

 

Brotherhood Librarian [6 PL, 108pts]: 1: Gate of Infinity, 3: Sanctuary, Artisan Nullifier Matrix

Nemesis Warding Stave

Storm Bolter [3pts]

 

Grand Master in Nemesis Dreadknight [12 PL, 235pts, -1CP]: 2: Empyric Amplification, 2: Hammer of Righteousness, 4: First to the Fray, 4: Vortex of Doom, Dreadfist, Dreadknight teleporter [10pts], Exemplar of the Silver Host [-1CP], Gatling Psilencer [20pts], Heavy Psycannon [20pts], Nemesis Greatsword [15pts], Servant of the Throne [1 PL, 20pts], Sigil of Exigence, Warlord

 

+ Troops [28 PL, 440pts] +

 

Strike Squad [7 PL, 110pts]

3x Grey Knight (Falchions) [66pts]: 6x Nemesis Falchion, 3x Storm Bolter

Grey Knight (Psilencer) [22pts]

Grey Knight Justicar [22pts]

Nemesis Falchions

 

Strike Squad [7 PL, 110pts]

3x Grey Knight (Falchions) [66pts]: 6x Nemesis Falchion, 3x Storm Bolter

Grey Knight (Psilencer) [22pts]

Grey Knight Justicar [22pts]

Nemesis Falchions

 

Strike Squad [7 PL, 110pts]

3x Grey Knight (Halberd) [66pts]: 3x Nemesis Force Halberd, 3x Storm Bolter

Grey Knight (Psilencer) [22pts]

Grey Knight Justicar [22pts]

Nemesis Force Sword

 

Strike Squad [7 PL, 110pts]

3x Grey Knight (Halberd) [66pts]: 3x Nemesis Force Halberd, 3x Storm Bolter

Grey Knight (Psilencer) [22pts]

Grey Knight Justicar [22pts]

Nemesis Force Sword

 

+ Elites [7 PL, 130pts] +

 

Brotherhood Ancient [5 PL, 100pts]: 2: Empyric Amplification

 

Servitors [2 PL, 30pts]: 4x Servitor

 

+ Fast Attack [28 PL, 480pts] +

 

Interceptor Squad [14 PL, 240pts]

9x Interceptor (Halberd) [216pts]: 9x Nemesis Force Halberd, 9x Storm Bolter

Interceptor Justicar [24pts]

Nemesis Force Halberd

 

Interceptor Squad [14 PL, 240pts]

9x Interceptor (Falchions) [216pts]: 18x Nemesis Falchion, 9x Storm Bolter

Interceptor Justicar [24pts]

Nemesis Falchions

 

+ Dedicated Transport [8 PL, 160pts] +

 

Rhino [4 PL, 80pts]: 2x Storm bolter

 

Rhino [4 PL, 80pts]: 2x Storm bolter

Edited August 15, 2021 by Grimlock

[corwindal5]

Paladins dont benefit from a Brotherhood because they are honoured knights. But they know 2 powers from Santic. I give them Armoured Resilience and Purifying flame. They have a strat where you can swap powers in a turn from Santic. At 141 pts for 3 they really do great job of complementing my dreadknights and being a tough unit to kill. They dont put out as much damage as an equivalent strike squad but when your run the numbers and if they get armoured Resilience off they are tough to kill.

[casb1965]

Quick legality question on Supreme Grand Master Draigo. Is he or is he not considered a Grand Master when including him in a list i.e.can you include him AND a Grand Master in your list?

[techsoldaten]

Quick legality question on Supreme Grand Master Draigo. Is he or is he not considered a Grand Master when including him in a list i.e.can you include him AND a Grand Master in your list?

 

Limitation is on a Grand Master, not a Supreme Grand Master. Check the keywords.

[Ticaliation]

guys my contribution to "discussion" - after having had few games now - this codex is great. not just because it is rather strong, but various reasons - i will elaborate later.

 

of course having lost some cool, strong and probably fluffy things sucks, TDA (termies, pallies) units being most impacted. now no offense to anyone, but from some of the comments here it seems to me there are few "powergamers" who were wishlisting in their minds to keep all the old strong things and get loads of new strong stuff. in order to what?  bringing brick of nigh invincible, very killy units you like/prefer and then roll some dice for the sake of appearance while grinning triumphantly knowing you aready won? winning almost always with very little effort is 0 fun for opponent and after few games 0 fun for you as well. #MattWard days thankfully gone.

 

Now why the codex is good

- it allows you to go very competitive if you want. yes that would be mostly Draigo/strikes/NDKs now (before more combos tried and other armies learn to counter this)

- psychic phase is now equivalent and complementary part of other phases, not something that just has to go good, otherwise we are screwed.

- strikes are now what they should be according fluff - an A+ astartes, who can pull their weight against majority of enemies. to be honest, they are for sure underpriced.. expecting them to go to 23 or even 24 ppt per model (lets hope not more). this will eventually drive cost of interceptors and purifiers up as well.

- NDKs (not just GM NDK) are now really good, even though i quite dislike the model.. very goofy and very static without any option to make more dynamic without cutting/sawing legs

- every infantry can deepstrike, which makes sense

 

- fluff reasons - if you dont go uber-competitive (WAAAC) this codex gives you so much variability - different brotherhoods with different combinations of powers/litanies/tides.. you can go defensive/durability-survivability or movement buffs or more psychic shenanigans or CC improvements or vehicle buffs or try heavy purifier army or even making the damn stormbolters pistols! (the ideas some of you guys had back few years when doing the fan-made rules) . and all of that and still remaining a quite strong army, not being demoralized by being wiped by most of other armies.

the above makes space to have fun playing the game for months/year-s ahead. compared to older codices when the list building was very bland.

 

Again - no offense to anyone - but if you say that the codex is bad or weak or anything like that - the flaw is not on the codex, but on the other side of arms holding it

Edited August 15, 2021 by Ticaliation

[Grimlock]

Does anyone know what the preservers brother strat is my book has not shown up yet and I need to get a list posted for an event

[L30n1d4s]

I believe it is the pregame one that buffs up Dreads (i.e. extra movement, +1 Dmg on charge, etc.)

[casb1965]

 

 

Quick legality question on Supreme Grand Master Draigo. Is he or is he not considered a Grand Master when including him in a list i.e.can you include him AND a Grand Master in your list?

Limitation is on a Grand Master, not a Supreme Grand Master. Check the keywords.

Therein lies the problem Draigo has Grand Master as a keyword albeit with Supreme before it. He also has a keyword Honoured Light which after reading the codex 4 times I still can't find the details of.

 

It is purely semantics on the GM part but I can find no definite answer in the Codex as to whether he counts or not as a GM or whether SGM overrides the only 1 GM per detachment. And I would sooner be able to use him and a GM than not but would like to be certain.

[RedemptionNL]

It's Honoured Knight, which Paladins and Purifiers also have and means they're not part of any Brotherhood (and thus can't use their aura buffs/strat/power) but can be included in any detachment without the others losing their Brotherhood bonus.

 

And considering the rule is based in fluff where there's only one GM per Brotherhood, I don't think including Draigo as well would be any problem. All the battle reports with him also have him with a GMNDK in the same detachment.

[casb1965]

Yeah Honoured Knight Was a spell check kicking in

[Gnomeo]

Not sure with draigo without looking at my dex. However from a lore point of view he is stuck in the warp and only comes out when the grey knights need is dire. And if grey knights have there back against the wall they are probably already led by a gm.

[techsoldaten]

 

 

Quick legality question on Supreme Grand Master Draigo. Is he or is he not considered a Grand Master when including him in a list i.e.can you include him AND a Grand Master in your list?

Limitation is on a Grand Master, not a Supreme Grand Master. Check the keywords.

Therein lies the problem Draigo has Grand Master as a keyword albeit with Supreme before it. He also has a keyword Honoured Light which after reading the codex 4 times I still can't find the details of.

 

It is purely semantics on the GM part but I can find no definite answer in the Codex as to whether he counts or not as a GM or whether SGM overrides the only 1 GM per detachment. And I would sooner be able to use him and a GM than not but would like to be certain.

 

 

SUPREME GRAND MASTER is not GRAND MASTER.

 

Keywords are specific words and phrases used to indicate eligibility for in-game mechanics.

 

Unless GW FAQs it, the two are not the same and should be treated appropriately.

[casb1965]

Am I missing something with the Silver Blades psychic power turning their storm bolsters from Rapid 2 to Pistol 4.

Other than the cost of casting it, what is the benefit

of rapid 2 over pistol 4?

[RedemptionNL]

Am I missing something with the Silver Blades psychic power turning their storm bolsters from Rapid 2 to Pistol 4.

Other than the cost of casting it, what is the benefit

of rapid 2 over pistol 4?

Pistol 4 is pretty much always better than RF 2, as you always get 4 shots and can shoot while in Engagement Range. The only downside Pistol weapons have is that you can't shoot any other non-Pistol ranged weapons on the model, but that's not an issue for GK. So yeah, it's just the cost of casting.

[Holier Than Thou]

And the range. Anything over 12" away and you can't reach it with the Pistol profile.

[RedemptionNL]

Ah yes, forgot the power also reduced the range. So then it's only useful for shooting while engaged in melee.

[casb1965]

Does it reduce the range though, I thought the wording was it changed the profile to Pistol 4 but didn't say anything about changing range, AP or damage.