Grey Knight 9th Edition Codex Rumors?

[Ichar]

Good bye Astral Aim:

 

https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/3kU3GJ7TmsySSAW2.jpg

 

Good bye Hammerhand:

 

https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/Py5BTH10eKU4PPqi.jpg

 

Astral Aim definitely worse. Hammerhand? I’m not really sure which is better.

[Skywrath]

Damn it, you beat me to it Ichar ;p Here are some more..

 

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/08/05/find-out-which-grey-knights-units-boast-the-biggest-gains-in-the-new-codex/

 

Edited August 5, 2021 by Skywrath

[Skywrath]

Grey Knights, let's take a moment of silence for the loss of Astral Aim. 

 

RIP Astral Aim, ? - 5/08/2021

Edited August 5, 2021 by Skywrath

[L30n1d4s]

I quite like the idea that each unit type might be getting specific powers default, kind of like the old 5th edition codex (i.e. the article mentions GK Terminators getting Hammerhand as their default power... which, btw, is bonkers.... WC5, reroll all to wounds in melee... basic GK Terminators are going to be soloing Mortarion or Abbadon!).

 

Also, if the Aegis is a baseline "free" roll for all GK units, then that is a tremendous improvement over the old 2 CP Stratagem.

Edited August 5, 2021 by L30n1d4s

[Skywrath]

I'm actually sad and infuriated beyond the loss of words..

 

1. We lost our +1 to cast.

2. AA got absolutely (sorry Lunkhead!) shafted 7 ways till Sunday.

3. Our strats are still overpriced.

4. Our fury of the first only works for melee attacks, not ranged. Unless our stormbolters are native BS 2, that's too expensive for 2CP.

5. Terminators have 3 attacks base, up from 3 - see the problem?

 

Positives:

 

1. Our worst aesthetically designed model is now shaping up to the best one in our line-up. (Sarcasm)

2. We get a 5+ FNP against MW, while still preserving out +1 to deny.

 

Did I miss anything? Oh yeah, and this article mentions these are our best changes. That makes me scared.

 

*powers up nemesis halberd up menacingly, psychic fury blazing*

Edited August 5, 2021 by Skywrath

[RedemptionNL]

1. We lost our +1 to cast.

That's not certain yet is it? Or did I miss something.

[Skywrath]

 

1. We lost our +1 to cast.

That's not certain yet is it? Or did I miss something.

 

 

It's more along the lines of - the Aegis seems to be our new army rule. If that was included, they would have specified it, wouldn't they?

[Grimlock]

I can’t tell you how disappointed I am over these changes. Some here have already listed out the pros and cons so I’m not going to go back over it in a list. NDK will be an auto include in lists with 10 attacks each but purgation squads got the shaft. Bye bye psilencer squads. I also don’t like the fact that they are defaulting our powers. I can already see most of the ones we have are gone. I am going to go out on a limb and say we lost sanctuary and gate. If we get gate in some fashion it will be added to the interceptor units. Anyone seeing a pattern here. Glad I have three NDK they didn’t show it’s profile but it will get 5 attacks base. They didn’t really go to in depth with its abilities or stat line. I’d like to see what the weapon profiles look like since theirs are listed as “heavy”

 

Overall very disappointing.

Edited August 5, 2021 by Grimlock

[Skywrath]

I can’t tell you how disappointed I am over these changes. Some here have already listed out the pros and cons so I’m not going to go back over it in a list. NDK will be an auto include in lists with 10 attacks each but purgation squads got the shaft. Bye bye psilencer squads. I also don’t like the fact that they are defaulting our powers. I can already see most of the ones we have are gone. I am going to go out on a limb and say we lost sanctuary and gate. If we get gate in some fashion it will be added to the interceptor units. Anyone seeing a pattern here. Glad I have three NDK they didn’t show it’s profile but it will get 5 attacks base. They didn’t really go to in depth with its abilities or stat line. I’d like to see what the weapon profiles look like since theirs are listed as “heavy”

 

Overall very disappointing.

 

Brother Grimlock is correct.. (btw welcome to the Halls of Titan :))

 

I really, really, really dislike this change. Certain units know a static power instead of choice? That homogenises the entire faction into something boring. The 8th edition Grey Knights were so fun, even when I lost, I still enjoyed the game. But now.. wow. All the fun elements are gone. Let's complete the picture here, and it's not a rozy one either.. 

 

1. Sanctuary will give a unit a 5+ invuln. Not even in an area, just the one unit, and it will probably be limited to INFANTRY. Let's not forget the regular SM's have access to an ability that gives them a 5+ invuln aura. So much for being the best of the best.

2. Warding staves - with the logic of the above, add +1 to armor save in the fight phase. Fun times. 

[Corvus Fortis]

1. Astral aim straightly lost its best part and now only applicable to purgators. Have to learn to live with that, biggest nerf so far. Small compensation - now it can ignore dense cover (meh);

2. Hammerhand is absolutely better. General rule of a thumb - full rerolls are always better than +1, unless it is 6+ to 5+. It is also cheaper. Lock to Terminators is the only thing that concerns me, but we can live with that;

3. Steel Heart is obviously a replacement to Fury of the Proven. Another uneeded nerf. Not that important, because we still be able to hit on 3's rerolling all in shooting;

4. Sanctified killzone is overcosted for what it does, but may be very strong in tide of convergence. I like the idea of 10 man purgation squad with 4 spec weapons. All of them seem good;

5. Steely Advance is C:SM copy-paste. Nothing special. Nice thing to have;

6. Bolter discipline is still with us, yay!

7. NDK seems very good for its points. 4++ and finallys second profile to clear chaff, bonus attack on top of that. Yes, please!

8. Strat is ok. D3 mortals are always welcome;

9. Aegis is finally what it should be. Additional protection from perils never hurts. Also, the article don't clearly state if it is a chapter tactic or a special rule, like "they shall know no fear". We'll see.

 

All in all, mixed feelings. Overall, we seem to be better and most things looks to be a sidegrade of what it was before. Hopefully, we will get full rules the day after tomorrow.

[Gnomeo]

I agree units having there own power is concerning as when this was done in a previous edition it made the army very one dimensional to the extent I stopped playing them. My concern is this loses the flexibility of adjusting powers to your army which I found could plug holes in the army with the use of powers. There is one saving grace that I am hoping for. In the purgation section they mentioned they know smite, astral aim and one other. If this is the case for all units. That they have in built and still get to choose one extra than fantastic. Though lets not talk about astral aim. I'm not ready I need time to greave.

[Holier Than Thou]

It says one other power that their Brotherhood grants them, so no choosing from what I can make out.

[Gnomeo]

It says one other power that their Brotherhood grants them, so no choosing from what I can make out.

You are correct damn that sucks. One of the things I loved about the army was although you were very limited by units. The psychic powers gave you flexibility. We shall have to see what's in the rest of the dex.

[Holier Than Thou]

Agreed. I liked the set powers in 5th but then getting to choose came as such a pleasant surprise, like you say, adding flexibility, it's a bitter pill to lose that again.

[RedemptionNL]

 

 

1. We lost our +1 to cast.

That's not certain yet is it? Or did I miss something.

 

It's more along the lines of - the Aegis seems to be our new army rule. If that was included, they would have specified it, wouldn't they?

 

Looks more like something akin to Bolter Discipline or ATSKNF to me, otherwise I would expect it to include requirements for the army to be Battle-Forged and that it has to be a GK detachment like all the other detachment rules. But I guess we'll see next weekend when we get the full picture.

 

1. Sanctuary will give a unit a 5+ invuln. Not even in an area, just the one unit, and it will probably be limited to INFANTRY. Let's not forget the regular SM's have access to an ability that gives them a 5+ invuln aura. So much for being the best of the best.

2. Warding staves - with the logic of the above, add +1 to armor save in the fight phase. Fun times.

These are just made up I assume, or did you find this somewhere? It's probably best to leave baseless speculation out of a rumor thread to avoid confusion.

 

Agreed. I liked the set powers in 5th but then getting to choose came as such a pleasant surprise, like you say, adding flexibility, it's a bitter pill to lose that again.

Well, in some way I guess it makes the units more unique again. Currently, Purifiers, Purgators and Strike Knights are pretty much the same.

[Grimlock]

Please remember they said in the article that these were their favorites!

[xommul]

Dont lament what rules you have lost or are different from before. 

 

Instead try to keep in mind you are getting a whole new set of rules, abilities, psychics, relics, brotherhoods that is designed to increase the power of your army in the context of the whole book and to make more units viable and allow more play styles then simply how many storm bolters can i buff to a silly strength and jump them across the board and shoot out of line of sight. 

 

You can now explore your armies from scratch and start again. 

 

They did the same with orks and they are now much more playable but in a very different style from what they were. Yes people were lamenting the loss of dakka dakka and green tide and advance and charge auras and im not saying the changes are perfect. 

 

But on the flip side it has to be balanced or you would end up with a broken book that is too OP and then gets a nerf bat to the face shortly later down the line. 

 

1.5 weeks more and the dex will be in your hands! Unlike many ork players who can smell a codex but still not have its rules. 

[Brother Lunkhead]

 

2. AA got absolutely (sorry Lunkhead!) shafted 7 ways till Sunday.

You've lost me on this Brother

 

Brother Skywrath is quite right about out strats still being overpriced. But, nothing new there, and I think we can deal with it in stride.

 

Personally, I don't like to speculate, especially since we don't have the full picture ( and of course, we won't until the Codex is out). However, some of these new strats and stats could play to our benefit. Since our strength is in close combat and melee, this new emphasis on individual units could allow for more flexibility. This will require us to be aggressive and extremely situationally aware to take full advantage, but we should be doing that anyway. 

 

Brother Corvus points out some of the positive points. Looks like NDK's are a must have, so I see some heavy conversion modeling in my future as I really hate the look.

 

As I generally want my opponent reacting to me, I play very aggressive, so I'm hoping there's more in the new codex that allow me to get close and personal as quickly as possible. I can see some faint hope in some of these new strats and stats...... fingers crossed

[Captain Coolpants]

Its definitely a step back tactically not choosing a power. But its a bonus thematically. Actually gives us a reason to use different squads.

[TheMostGood]

I never quite understood why people get so frustrated when they only see a fraction of the rules being offered. I see it on literally every forum of 40K when releases like this happen, and in other games besides. Why waste time and energy lamenting about what might be instead of looking at what was shown and talk about that? 

 

The Aegis - getting 5+ FNP on mortal wounds (in any phase) is nice. It's not going to blow your dick off, but it's nice to have. Very fluffy. +1 to DTW is standard from what we had last edition. Based on the wording, I would imagine that most if not all our models will get The Aegis.

 

A point has to be made here. Just because our +1 to psychic tests isn't on here doesn't mean we don't get it. The Aegis (the armour worn by GK) isn't what gives them their +1 to cast. It's the Psychic Brotherhood. And as far as that goes, armies don't get ONE special rule in their codex. Necron, for example, have three - Living metal, Reanimation Protocols, and Command Protocols.

 

So relax. 

Steely Advance - It is pricy for what it does and what it effects (only infantry). Not every stratagem is going to be good, as is always the case. It may have some particular applications, but it's also not that bad. 

 

Sanctified Kill Zone - is a bit strange. It's nice to have +1 to wound, especially when you pair it with other abilities like Tide of Convergence / Psychic Onslaught (if they keep it as it is). But 2CP and only at half range seems a bit limited. It will for sure make players think twice before getting too close to your purgation squad by deepstrike or other means though. Could pair nicely with Omen of Incursion. 

 

Astral Aim - for sure got a nerf. Re-rolling one hit roll is MEH on an army that is hitting on 3s normally. It should have likely been re-roll one hit, one wound, and one damage result IMO. The target not receiving the benefit of cover is interesting since it includes Light and Dense cover. 

I will say this. Getting to shoot at something out of LOS was pretty strong. Maybe not game breaking for such an elite army, but strong none-the-less. So I can see why they changed it, depending on what else is in the book. It will make going after things like artillery and other hidden units much more difficult. 

 

Terminators - went from 2A +1A with Shock Assault to just 3A base (no Shock Assault likely). That's fine and not a big difference between the two editions. I don't know why people are expecting stock terminators to have 4A. Steel Heart is OK.

Hammerhand - is actually quite strong. Re-rolling all wound rolls in melee is better than +1 to wound IMO. Especially considering that rumors mention we're getting stronger melee weapons that have more S on them. 

As an added note to this, we don't know what "Knows Hammerhand by default" means in the context. It could be like Smite where they know it along with other psychic powers given to them. Or it could be that they know the ability and can't choose. In which case that would mean that terminators (in this example) know a total of three spells (Smite, Hammerhand, Brotherhood Spell). Wait and see which it is. Either which way, I don't think it'll hinder gameplay too much.

 

Edit: As someone mentioned in another thread, it seems the previewed psychic powers of Astral Aim and Hammerhand do not target a unit. Which implies that only the one casting it benefits. I wonder if this means that we can cast hammerhand, astral aim, etc multiple times across multiple terminator and purgation squads (respectively). 

 

Dreadknights - got a considerable buff IMO. +4 invuln, an extra wound, and +1A is good . The two weapon profile is great as well. So no matter what you throw it against, it will be chopping up left and right. This alone might make the normal NDK an actual contender for lists, especially if stratagems like Overwhelming Assault are still in the book. 

 

Thunderous Stride - again, it's nothing to write home about but it's a little something extra depending on the situation. 

 

All in all I think they are solid changes all throughout. It's a sign of a strong book when you look at these changes and not say "Holy that's a huge nerf" or "Holy that's way too good."

 

Excited to see what else is here. 

Edited August 5, 2021 by TheMostGood

[Cleon]

Makes me wonder if there will be some way  to swap out the default power with a new one  (possibly a stratagem for 1-3 units.)

[Grimlock]

I never quite understood why people get so frustrated when they only see a fraction of the rules being offered. I see it on literally every forum of 40K when releases like this happen, and in other games besides. Why waste time and energy lamenting about what might be instead of looking at what was shown and talk about that?

 

The Aegis - getting 5+ FNP on mortal wounds (in any phase) is nice. It's not going to blow your dick off, but it's nice to have. Very fluffy. +1 to DTW is standard from what we had last edition. Based on the wording, I would imagine that most if not all our models will get The Aegis.

 

A point has to be made here. Just because our +1 to psychic tests isn't on here doesn't mean we don't get it. The Aegis (the armour worn by GK) isn't what gives them their +1 to cast. It's the Psychic Brotherhood. And as far as that goes, armies don't get ONE special rule in their codex. Necron, for example, have three - Living metal, Reanimation Protocols, and Command Protocols.

 

So relax.

 

Steely Advance - It is pricy for what it does and what it effects (only infantry). Not every stratagem is going to be good, as is always the case. It may have some particular applications, but it's also not that bad.

 

Sanctified Kill Zone - is a bit strange. It's nice to have +1 to wound, especially when you pair it with other abilities like Tide of Convergence / Psychic Onslaught (if they keep it as it is). But 2CP and only at half range seems a bit limited. It will for sure make players think twice before getting too close to your purgation squad by deepstrike or other means though. Could pair nicely with Omen of Incursion.

 

Astral Aim - for sure got a nerf. Re-rolling one hit roll is MEH on an army that is hitting on 3s normally. It should have likely been re-roll one hit, one wound, and one damage result IMO. The target not receiving the benefit of cover is interesting since it includes Light and Dense cover.

 

I will say this. Getting to shoot at something out of LOS was pretty strong. Maybe not game breaking for such an elite army, but strong none-the-less. So I can see why they changed it, depending on what else is in the book. It will make going after things like artillery and other hidden units much more difficult.

 

Terminators - went from 2A +1A with Shock Assault to just 3A base (no Shock Assault likely). That's fine and not a big difference between the two editions. I don't know why people are expecting stock terminators to have 4A. Steel Heart is OK.

 

Hammerhand - is actually quite strong. Re-rolling all wound rolls in melee is better than +1 to wound IMO. Especially considering that rumors mention we're getting stronger melee weapons that have more S on them.

 

As an added note to this, we don't know what "Knows Hammerhand by default" means in the context. It could be like Smite where they know it along with other psychic powers given to them. Or it could be that they know the ability and can't choose. In which case that would mean that terminators (in this example) know a total of three spells (Smite, Hammerhand, Brotherhood Spell). Wait and see which it is. Either which way, I don't think it'll hinder gameplay too much.

 

Edit: As someone mentioned in another thread, it seems the previewed psychic powers of Astral Aim and Hammerhand do not target a unit. Which implies that only the one casting it benefits. I wonder if this means that we can cast hammerhand, astral aim, etc multiple times across multiple terminator and purgation squads (respectively).

 

Dreadknights - got a considerable buff IMO. +4 invuln, an extra wound, and +1A is good . The two weapon profile is great as well. So no matter what you throw it against, it will be chopping up left and right. This alone might make the normal NDK an actual contender for lists, especially if stratagems like Overwhelming Assault are still in the book.

 

Thunderous Stride - again, it's nothing to write home about but it's a little something extra depending on the situation.

 

All in all I think they are solid changes all throughout. It's a sign of a strong book when you look at these changes and not say "Holy that's a huge nerf" or "Holy that's way too good."

 

Excited to see what else is here.

[Grimlock]

You post is long and I enjoyed the read but I can’t go over everything in your post so I’ll just on a couple of things.

 

I agree we need to see what the context is to the remaining book. We are going to get bolter discipline because they mentioned in the recent post. The abilities from the “prognosticator” are once per battle. The first is reported through leaks to be 30 points for a once per battle. The gem is 15 points again once per battle. Again not sure if there is more to theirs abilities.

 

Astral Ain was our bread and butter because we have limited range weapons. So if things were camping behind cover you could touch them. We took one on the chin with that one.

 

Hammer hand yes if the weapon profiles that were floating around are correct this should be tasty wounding most things on a 5+ with re-rolls.

 

I believe that the NDK will be an auto include “IF” they are core if not, I’d have to see how it plays out.

 

Aegis will be nasty for the simple reason if I am not mistaken the strat we have is for vehicles only. This is an active all the time 5+ FNP!!! Yes please and thank you.

 

I am wondering though if we will see a shift from a battalion to 2 or 3 patrols all running different brotherhoods.

 

We should know more next week. I did not expect to get anything today. I believe most people were expecting a druhkari or Admech level book. But you are right I’d hate to get the nerf bat a week later.

[angrom]

Well at least we know already what one of the brotherhood do. to give +1 to cast to the detachment.

Typical way of GW to deal with grey knights. Take from one hand and give it back with the other then call that a progress.

[Skywrath]

Alright, now that I've more or less got over the grieving process of Astral Aim, time to look at this from an objective perspective..

 

1. GMNDK/NDK's absolutely rock. As many of you pointed out, the two profiles are pretty good, even D2 on the sweeping profile is very, very good, especially at -2AP. Most sweeping profiles are at D1.

 

2. Hammerhand re-rolling wounds is also a very nice buff!

 

3. Not having +1 to our cast still hurts a bit, however, as I realised now, that could be because our strats are going down in WC costs, on top of being baked into brotherhoods. It's a nice thing to have, but if you are getting your casts of at WC 6-7, do you really need that extra +1? 

 

4. 5++ FNP against MW and +1 to deny as our army rule (especially how everyone deals a whole bunch of MW out) is a god-send. Praise the Emperor!

 

5. Steel Heart strategem - I can't shake the feeling that our BS with stormbolters will be 2 instead of 3, hence why they removed that strat. So apparently putting them on our wrists increases their accuracy. Perhaps we are still BS3, but stormbolters have a rule that say add +1 to our hit roll if you use them?

 

6. Sanctified Killzone - solid meh. We will be wounding on 2's with psycannons anyway, assuming our tides still work the same. 2CP is still too much.. the other horrifying thought is what happened to Psychic Onslaught?? Currently, you are already spending anywhere between 4-8CP a turn, between psychic onslaught, psybolt ammunition, transhuman and +2CP for other misc. things such as re-rolls. Perhaps this is only good for psilencers? And if so, why take those when you have psycannons, which are better in every way?

 

7. GMNDK strat is awesome. I'll definitely have some fun with it there. Perhaps the meta would be to run 1-2 of those in a Swordbearers detachment? A bit bummed our normal attack is D6, instead of D3+3. 

 

8. Taking 8 special weapons in a purgation squad is definitely an improvement. However when I see 10 x hellblasters where their sergeant can also take the same weapon as the rest of the squad, I wonder why our two sergeants can't take those?

 

9. Steely advance - still overcosted, that needs to be 1CP like the other marine options. Perhaps an oversight, if not that symbolises an interaction with those visions of the augurium upgrades. 

 

10. Psychic powers being limited to certain squads - I hate it. Theoretically you can still get those powers off to other units, but now it's much more easier to shut that unit down, when you know what power it has. That destroys our somewhat unpredictable nature as a faction. 

Edited August 6, 2021 by Skywrath