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Well at least we know already what one of the brotherhood do. to give +1 to cast to the detachment.

Know from where?

 

3. Not having +1 to our cast still hurts a bit

Assuming we lose it in the first place. There's still no indication for that afaik.

 

5. Steel Heart strategem - I can't shake the feeling that our BS with stormbolters will be 2 instead of 3, hence why they removed that strat. So apparently putting them on our wrists increases their accuracy. Perhaps we are still BS3, but stormbolters have a rule that say add +1 to our hit roll if you use them?

Sounds very doubtful. And we already know we're staying BS3 from the new profiles.

 

6. Sanctified Killzone - solid meh. We will be wounding on 2's with psycannons anyway, assuming our tides still work the same.

There are plenty of things with T5 and above where a +1 to wound would be helpful, even if Tide of Convergence stays the same.

 

7. GMNDK strat is awesome. I'll definitely have some fun with it there. Perhaps the meta would be to run 1-2 of those in a Swordbearers detachment? A bit bummed our normal attack is D6, instead of D3+3.

There's still a good change the greathammer will be better for dealing single target damage. Current rules already give it a min of 3 per attack, wouldn't be suprised to see that turning into D3+3.

 

8. Taking 8 special weapons in a purgation squad is definitely an improvement.

Who said we can take 8 now?

 

9. Steely advance - still overcosted, that needs to be 1CP like the other marine options.

Steady Advance in the marine book also costs 2CP.

 

Well at least we know already what one of the brotherhood do. to give +1 to cast to the detachment.

Know from where?

 

3. Not having +1 to our cast still hurts a bit

Assuming we lose it in the first place. There's still no indication for that afaik.

 

If we had that there, it would be mentioned in that box in that picture. End of story.

 

5. Steel Heart strategem - I can't shake the feeling that our BS with stormbolters will be 2 instead of 3, hence why they removed that strat. So apparently putting them on our wrists increases their accuracy. Perhaps we are still BS3, but stormbolters have a rule that say add +1 to our hit roll if you use them?

Sounds very doubtful. And we already know we're staying BS3 from the new profiles.

 

Read this bit again - Perhaps we are still BS3, but stormbolters have a rule that say add +1 to our hit roll if you use them?

 

6. Sanctified Killzone - solid meh. We will be wounding on 2's with psycannons anyway, assuming our tides still work the same.

There are plenty of things with T5 and above where a +1 to wound would be helpful, even if Tide of Convergence stays the same.

 

Point conceded.

 

7. GMNDK strat is awesome. I'll definitely have some fun with it there. Perhaps the meta would be to run 1-2 of those in a Swordbearers detachment? A bit bummed our normal attack is D6, instead of D3+3.

There's still a good change the greathammer will be better for dealing single target damage. Current rules already give it a min of 3 per attack, wouldn't be suprised to see that turning into D3+3.

 

I had the Greatsword in mind, rather than the hammer when I wrote this.

 

8. Taking 8 special weapons in a purgation squad is definitely an improvement.

Who said we can take 8 now?

 

Take a look at that screenshot with the purgation squads in the Hexfire thread in news and announcements.

 

9. Steely advance - still overcosted, that needs to be 1CP like the other marine options.

Steady Advance in the marine book also costs 2CP.

 

Oh, missed that bit, point conceded on that one again.

 

 

Another thing I might suggest - if you stick too much to the proven facts, you blind yourself to the future implications of that action, whether positive or negative. 

If we had that there, it would be mentioned in that box in that picture. End of story.

By that logic, you think we lose the Knights of Titan, ATSKNF, Bolter Discipline, Daemon Hunters, Shock Assault, Masters of the Warp and Rites of Banishment rules? They're not mentioned in that box either.

 

Read this bit again - Perhaps we are still BS3, but stormbolters have a rule that say add +1 to our hit roll if you use them?

And perhaps they'll also have psybolt ammo by default. But that's also unlikely and not based on anything.

 

I had the Greatsword in mind, rather than the hammer when I wrote this.

Not having the Greatsword be the answer to everything and a no-brainer choice over the Dreadfist and Greathammer would seem like it's good for balance.

 

Take a look at that screenshot with the purgation squads in the Hexfire thread in news and announcements.

Not seeing it, do you have a direct link? But if it's just some army overview picture I doubt that's a very good basis for rules arguments. They're put random stuff together in those pictures before.

 

And if anything, we have to hope they're not going for the "if it's not in the box, you can't take it" rules that they did in the AdMech and Drukhari codexes. Otherwise we're going to be stuck with stuff like "can only take 3 halberds for every 5 strike knights", "can take 2 psycannons, but only 1 incinerator or psilencer per 5 purgators" or "1 psycannon per 5 paladins".

 

Another thing I might suggest - if you stick too much to the proven facts, you blind yourself to the future implications of that action, whether positive or negative.

And acting on baseless speculation or wishlisting or lamenting rules lost without any indication they're even actually lost only leads to confusion and doesn't help us in any shape or form in how to best utilize the new codex. And we're like 2 days away from knowing the actual rules once the codex (p)reviews come up.

 

If we had that there, it would be mentioned in that box in that picture. End of story.

By that logic, you think we lose the Knights of Titan, ATSKNF, Bolter Discipline, Daemon Hunters, Shock Assault, Masters of the Warp and Rites of Banishment rules? They're not mentioned in that box either.

 

Actually, I'm pretty sure we'll lose Shock Assault, and our Rites of Banishment will get changed to something insignificant. Knights of Titan can also dissapear, as that's the trend with other codicies. Personally, I don't think we need another ability just to reinforce the idea that our troops have obsec.

 

Read this bit again - Perhaps we are still BS3, but stormbolters have a rule that say add +1 to our hit roll if you use them?

And perhaps they'll also have psybolt ammo by default. But that's also unlikely and not based on anything.

 

Funny you say that, because I can envision when we are in the tide of convergence, psybolt ammunition/psychic onslaught will be baked in. Glad we agree on something :smile.: 

 

I had the Greatsword in mind, rather than the hammer when I wrote this.

Not having the Greatsword be the answer to everything and a no-brainer choice over the Dreadfist and Greathammer would seem like it's good for balance.

 

Points permitting of, course. Sometimes you won't have the extra 10-15pts needed to give someone a greathammer.

 

Take a look at that screenshot with the purgation squads in the Hexfire thread in news and announcements.

Not seeing it, do you have a direct link? But if it's just some army overview picture I doubt that's a very good basis for rules arguments. They're put random stuff together in those pictures before.

 

Pick a side - either follow the screenshots/rules like we know/see them them, or don't. You can't cherry pick objective sources of information at your leisure - that makes you look like a hypocrite when the changes are confirmed/denied.. as for the picture, that was a preview of the strike squad assembly box, a quick 5s google search will suffice for your needs,

 

And if anything, we have to hope they're not going for the "if it's not in the box, you can't take it" rules that they did in the AdMech and Drukhari codexes. Otherwise we're going to be stuck with stuff like "can only take 3 halberds for every 5 strike knights", "can take 2 psycannons, but only 1 incinerator or psilencer per 5 purgators" or "1 psycannon per 5 paladins".

 

And you call my ideas improbable..

 

Another thing I might suggest - if you stick too much to the proven facts, you blind yourself to the future implications of that action, whether positive or negative.

And acting on baseless speculation or wishlisting or lamenting rules lost without any indication they're even actually lost only leads to confusion and doesn't help us in any shape or form in how to best utilize the new codex. And we're like 2 days away from knowing the actual rules once the codex (p)reviews come up.

 

We'll see then.

 

In red.

Edited by Skywrath

Actually, I'm pretty sure we'll lose Shock Assault, and our Rites of Banishment will get changed to something insignificant. Knights of Titan can also dissapear, as that's the trend with other codicies. Personally, I don't think we need another ability just to reinforce the idea that our troops have obsec.

While it's very possible those rules changed, nothing is confirmed yet. Simply going off The Aegis as a basis is still a poor argument to assume we lost +1 to cast. I'm not saying we won't lose it or have it changed, but we simply don't know yet.

 

Pick a side - either follow the screenshots/rules like we know/see them them, or don't. You can't cherry pick objective sources of information at your leisure - that makes you look like a hypocrite when the changes are confirmed/denied.. as for the picture, that was a preview of the strike squad assembly box, a quick 5s google search will suffice for your needs,

I don't know what's hypocritical about making a difference between actual official rules quotes and army overview pictures which have had 'illegal' army loadouts in other occasions in the past too. But I don't see any pictures of purgation squads in the Hexfire thread, hence I asked for a link so I could see what you're talking about. If you know what to search for, just add a link to it.

 

And if anything, we have to hope they're not going for the "if it's not in the box, you can't take it" rules that they did in the AdMech and Drukhari codexes. Otherwise we're going to be stuck with stuff like "can only take 3 halberds for every 5 strike knights", "can take 2 psycannons, but only 1 incinerator or psilencer per 5 purgators" or "1 psycannon per 5 paladins".

 

And you call my ideas improbable..

I certainly hope it doesn't happen and would hate it if it does, but it's exactly what happened in other 9E codexes to units like Skitarii Vanguard or Drukhari Wyches, so not sure what's so improbable about it.

 

Actually, I'm pretty sure we'll lose Shock Assault, and our Rites of Banishment will get changed to something insignificant. Knights of Titan can also dissapear, as that's the trend with other codicies. Personally, I don't think we need another ability just to reinforce the idea that our troops have obsec.

While it's very possible those rules changed, nothing is confirmed yet. Simply going off The Aegis as a basis is still a poor argument to assume we lost +1 to cast. I'm not saying we won't lose it or have it changed, but we simply don't know yet.

 

All cards on the table, I don't want to lose the +1 to cast, but objectively speaking, I still think if we had that ability, it would be there. I would be happy if I was wrong.

 

Pick a side - either follow the screenshots/rules like we know/see them them, or don't. You can't cherry pick objective sources of information at your leisure - that makes you look like a hypocrite when the changes are confirmed/denied.. as for the picture, that was a preview of the strike squad assembly box, a quick 5s google search will suffice for your needs,

I don't know what's hypocritical about making a difference between actual official rules quotes and army overview pictures which have had 'illegal' army loadouts in other occasions in the past too. But I don't see any pictures of purgation squads in the Hexfire thread, hence I asked for a link so I could see what you're talking about. If you know what to search for, just add a link to it.

 

226574448_193022049475216_40358523928005

 

And if anything, we have to hope they're not going for the "if it's not in the box, you can't take it" rules that they did in the AdMech and Drukhari codexes. Otherwise we're going to be stuck with stuff like "can only take 3 halberds for every 5 strike knights", "can take 2 psycannons, but only 1 incinerator or psilencer per 5 purgators" or "1 psycannon per 5 paladins".

 

And you call my ideas improbable..

I certainly hope it doesn't happen and would hate it if it does, but it's exactly what happened in other 9E codexes to units like Skitarii Vanguard or Drukhari Wyches, so not sure what's so improbable about it.

 

That's more a reference to the fact that we can only take 3 halberds per 5 strike knights. Either way, I misread that, so disregard that bit.

All cards on the table, I don't want to lose the +1 to cast, but objectively speaking, I still think if we had that ability, it would be there. I would be happy if I was wrong.

Of course, no GK player wants to lose it. But logically if it's still there it wouldn't be in the Aegis rule, as it was a detachment ability before while the Aegis looks like a rule we'll have even in a mixed detachment, like ATSKNF. And fluffwise the better casting has nothing to do with the aegis, as those are the purely defensive hexagrammic wards in a GK's armour.

 

226574448_193022049475216_40358523928005

 

Thanks! I hadn't seen that before. That is indeed a very good argument that they can get 8 special weapons in a 10 man squad. Very interesting, but it does make me worry more that we'll get the "can only equip what's in the box" treatment, as the 2 incerators, 2 psilencers and 4 psycannons depicted are exactly what would be on 2 of the 5-man sprues.

 

That's more a reference to the fact that we can only take 3 halberds per 5 strike knights. Either way, I misread that, so disregard that bit.

That's because there's only 3 halberds on the 5 man sprue. I certainly don't hope it's going to the case, but the above picture doesn't look good.

 

All cards on the table, I don't want to lose the +1 to cast, but objectively speaking, I still think if we had that ability, it would be there. I would be happy if I was wrong.

Of course, no GK player wants to lose it. But logically if it's still there it wouldn't be in the Aegis rule, as it was a detachment ability before while the Aegis looks like a rule we'll have even in a mixed detachment, like ATSKNF. And fluffwise the better casting has nothing to do with the aegis, as those are the purely defensive hexagrammic wards in a GK's armour.

 

226574448_193022049475216_40358523928005

 

Thanks! I hadn't seen that before. That is indeed a very good argument that they can get 8 special weapons in a 10 man squad. Very interesting, but it does make me worry more that we'll get the "can only equip what's in the box" treatment, as the 2 incerators, 2 psilencers and 4 psycannons depicted are exactly what would be on 2 of the 5-man sprues.

 

That's more a reference to the fact that we can only take 3 halberds per 5 strike knights. Either way, I misread that, so disregard that bit.

That's because there's only 3 halberds on the 5 man sprue. I certainly don't hope it's going to the case, but the above picture doesn't look good.

 

 

Fluff-wise, wasn't the aegis a union of psychic minds with Grey Knights? Which could in theory tie in to the +1 to cast, crunch-wise?

 

Personally, I wouldn't put much stock into the bit where we can equip/can't equip based on numbers in the box. IIRC the strike squad box only comes with 2 psilencers, when we can equip 4 in a purgation squad. That being said, you can build interceptors/purifiers there, so perhaps the point is moot.. however, I wonder whether they will alter our contents in the box to include more heavy weapons such as psilencers?

 

The last bit is why I'm concerned, and frankly hostile to anyone that tells me to lighten up about the incoming GK codex - I love the faction, I love how they play, I love the fluff. But all of this, together, with some other things on top of this, makes me think negatively about the upcoming codex. Regardless, I'll be getting the codex tommorow (pre-ordering, is more accurate), so I guess I'll save my tears/joys for it then. I think we still got another 2-3hrs before they post more things on the warcom article, if my intuition is right. Apologies for the hostilities before.

Edited by Skywrath

Even with all the WarComm articles I think most us are looking forward to Youtubers releaseing their reviews. And I know I lot of the ones I watch like Ash from Guerrila Miniature Games, or Winters from Winter SEO, etc will probably have a decent review while some will be their typical cringey videos. But this would be the time One Last Blade would be the person I want to have a preview codex and gave us his review.  

 

 

 

All cards on the table, I don't want to lose the +1 to cast, but objectively speaking, I still think if we had that ability, it would be there. I would be happy if I was wrong.

Of course, no GK player wants to lose it. But logically if it's still there it wouldn't be in the Aegis rule, as it was a detachment ability before while the Aegis looks like a rule we'll have even in a mixed detachment, like ATSKNF. And fluffwise the better casting has nothing to do with the aegis, as those are the purely defensive hexagrammic wards in a GK's armour.

 

226574448_193022049475216_40358523928005

Thanks! I hadn't seen that before. That is indeed a very good argument that they can get 8 special weapons in a 10 man squad. Very interesting, but it does make me worry more that we'll get the "can only equip what's in the box" treatment, as the 2 incerators, 2 psilencers and 4 psycannons depicted are exactly what would be on 2 of the 5-man sprues.

 

That's more a reference to the fact that we can only take 3 halberds per 5 strike knights. Either way, I misread that, so disregard that bit.

That's because there's only 3 halberds on the 5 man sprue. I certainly don't hope it's going to the case, but the above picture doesn't look good.

Fluff-wise, wasn't the aegis a union of psychic minds with Grey Knights? Which could in theory tie in to the +1 to cast, crunch-wise?

 

Personally, I wouldn't put much stock into the bit where we can equip/can't equip based on numbers in the box. IIRC the strike squad box only comes with 2 psilencers, when we can equip 4 in a purgation squad. That being said, you can build interceptors/purifiers there, so perhaps the point is moot.. however, I wonder whether they will alter our contents in the box to include more heavy weapons such as psilencers?

 

The last bit is why I'm concerned, and frankly hostile to anyone that tells me to lighten up about the incoming GK codex - I love the faction, I love how they play, I love the fluff. But all of this, together, with some other things on top of this, makes me think negatively about the upcoming codex. Regardless, I'll be getting the codex tommorow (pre-ordering, is more accurate), so I guess I'll save my tears/joys for it then. I think we still got another 2-3hrs before they post more things on the warcom article, if my intuition is right. Apologies for the hostilities before.

The ageis is the type of armour they wear and is based for defence.

 

It was being a brotherhood of psykers working and focusing power together that empowered there spells.

Fluff-wise, wasn't the aegis a union of psychic minds with Grey Knights? Which could in theory tie in to the +1 to cast, crunch-wise?

No, it's the type of armour GK wear: https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Aegis_Armour

 

IIRC the strike squad box only comes with 2 psilencers, when we can equip 4 in a purgation squad.

Yeah, but that was the case for the Skitarii and Wyches too. I would not at all be suprised to see Purgators changed to "for each 5 models in the squad, you can take 2 psycannons, 1 psilencer and/or 1 incinerator". Which could also mean you wouldn't be able have 4 of the same special weapon in a 5 man squad anymore either. But we'll see soon enough. Definitely hoping it's not the case.

 

however, I wonder whether they will alter our contents in the box to include more heavy weapons such as psilencers?

The chances of that are pretty much nill, as they literally only just reboxed the current kits. I fear we'll have to do without any mayor update to the GK model line for a long time yet, save for a character update here and there like Crowe.

 

The last bit is why I'm concerned, and frankly hostile to anyone that tells me to lighten up about the incoming GK codex - I love the faction, I love how they play, I love the fluff. But all of this, together, with some other things on top of this, makes me think negatively about the upcoming codex. Regardless, I'll be getting the codex tommorow (pre-ordering, is more accurate), so I guess I'll save my tears/joys for it then. I think we still got another 2-3hrs before they post more things on the warcom article, if my intuition is right. Apologies for the hostilities before.

It's a pattern a lot of people seem to go through before every codex release, working off tiny bits of information and - filled with emotion - are already calling the codex either completely broken or completely OP (and often, different people claim both about the same codex).

 

But cooler heads will prevail. Reminds me of the excellent "Way of the Water Warrior" GK article by Silent Requiem back in 3E; GK are naturally good at adapting to the changing circumstances. And with GK being active in every phase and some apparent new-found melee umph, that aspect about GK doesn't seem to change.

 

Keep in mind that the 9E codexes contain large sweeping changes for a lot of factions, some changes which could only be dreamed off in the previous editions of tiny incremental updates. And we definitely haven't seen everything yet. The WarCom articles are also generally full of marketing speak, so they always say that whatever they're presenting is the strongest or the best, so you have to take those with a grain of salt too. What the actual players think are the best changes is generally completely different. And even then those opinion often don't hold much water until people actually start playing with the new rules.

One thing I've noticed from the last WarCom article, it says this about Brotherhood Terminator Squads (besides their swanky new name): "Their ability to fire a Heavy weapon on the move means they’ll be dishing out a lot of firepower at range."

 

Probably reading into things too much, but could this mean that they might not get the -1 to hit penalty for shooting with Heavy weapons after moving?

Seems obvious to me that Brotherhood of Psykers is still +1 to cast and the ability to cast the same spell multiple times unlike everyone else. Makes sense that the trade off then is fixed spells on squads while hero’s get to choose. It’s a. Good trade off.

Seems obvious to me that Brotherhood of Psykers is still +1 to cast and the ability to cast the same spell multiple times unlike everyone else. Makes sense that the trade off then is fixed spells on squads while hero’s get to choose. It’s a. Good trade off.

It would be nice to see this but I have not seen where they have previewed brotherhood yet. So fingers crossed that you are right because the tying spells to units sucks.

 

"Their ability to fire a Heavy weapon on the move means they’ll be dishing out a lot of firepower at range."

 

They could be talking about steely advance or just messed up something.

I read the same and had to do a double take however if you look at 1k sons terminators they previewed today they are getting it so maybe just maybe we will.

 

All cards on the table, I don't want to lose the +1 to cast, but objectively speaking, I still think if we had that ability, it would be there. I would be happy if I was wrong.

Of course, no GK player wants to lose it. But logically if it's still there it wouldn't be in the Aegis rule, as it was a detachment ability before while the Aegis looks like a rule we'll have even in a mixed detachment, like ATSKNF. And fluffwise the better casting has nothing to do with the aegis, as those are the purely defensive hexagrammic wards in a GK's armour.

 

226574448_193022049475216_40358523928005

Thanks! I hadn't seen that before. That is indeed a very good argument that they can get 8 special weapons in a 10 man squad. Very interesting, but it does make me worry more that we'll get the "can only equip what's in the box" treatment, as the 2 incerators, 2 psilencers and 4 psycannons depicted are exactly what would be on 2 of the 5-man sprues.

 

That's more a reference to the fact that we can only take 3 halberds per 5 strike knights. Either way, I misread that, so disregard that bit.

That's because there's only 3 halberds on the 5 man sprue. I certainly don't hope it's going to the case, but the above picture doesn't look good.

Could you imagine 8 incinerators dropping in front of a unit! OMG it’s BBQ time!!

Yeah 8 incinerators would be crazy! Aren't they free now? If I'm remembering correctly. That would make us eeeven better at killing chaff. A whole bunch of flamers AND 3 attacks base on the charge, nuts.

 

Also would be a veeeery worthy unit to overwatch with haha

Yeah 8 incinerators would be crazy! Aren't they free now? If I'm remembering correctly. That would make us eeeven better at killing chaff. A whole bunch of flamers AND 3 attacks base on the charge, nuts.

 

Also would be a veeeery worthy unit to overwatch with haha

They are free, str 6 -1 1dam 12” range oh boy!!!! Even 4 could be brutal and we have not seen any strats yet so who knows how this will play out.

Cleansing flame I’m so hyped for the dex I might actually have to some more power armor with special weapons I’ve never wanted to give up the melee power but the flames

Just got done with painting 6 power armor models with incinerators. 2 for my interceptor squad can you say combat squad lol, and 4 for a purgation team. But if we can take 8 I need to get 4 more done!!!! Oh my!!!

 

Seems obvious to me that Brotherhood of Psykers is still +1 to cast and the ability to cast the same spell multiple times unlike everyone else. Makes sense that the trade off then is fixed spells on squads while hero’s get to choose. It’s a. Good trade off.

It would be nice to see this but I have not seen where they have previewed brotherhood yet. So fingers crossed that you are right because the tying spells to units sucks.

 

 

"Their ability to fire a Heavy weapon on the move means they’ll be dishing out a lot of firepower at range."

They could be talking about steely advance or just messed up something.

I read the same and had to do a double take however if you look at 1k sons terminators they previewed today they are getting it so maybe just maybe we will.

 

All cards on the table, I don't want to lose the +1 to cast, but objectively speaking, I still think if we had that ability, it would be there. I would be happy if I was wrong.

Of course, no GK player wants to lose it. But logically if it's still there it wouldn't be in the Aegis rule, as it was a detachment ability before while the Aegis looks like a rule we'll have even in a mixed detachment, like ATSKNF. And fluffwise the better casting has nothing to do with the aegis, as those are the purely defensive hexagrammic wards in a GK's armour.

226574448_193022049475216_40358523928005

Thanks! I hadn't seen that before. That is indeed a very good argument that they can get 8 special weapons in a 10 man squad. Very interesting, but it does make me worry more that we'll get the "can only equip what's in the box" treatment, as the 2 incerators, 2 psilencers and 4 psycannons depicted are exactly what would be on 2 of the 5-man sprues.

That's more a reference to the fact that we can only take 3 halberds per 5 strike knights. Either way, I misread that, so disregard that bit.

That's because there's only 3 halberds on the 5 man sprue. I certainly don't hope it's going to the case, but the above picture doesn't look good.

Could you imagine 8 incinerators dropping in front of a unit! OMG it’s BBQ time!!

Imagine if could do that with current psilencers with all their buffs, in a 8 man squad :(

 

But I can't wait to do that with my psycannons >:) Will they have blast?

Edited by Skywrath

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