chapter differences at the table

[Medjugorje]

As we all know, each of us has different opinions and experience.

Maybe because your local meta is different, the player of faction X is not that experienced or maybe far better.

I would like to know how you see the whole situation from your sight. 

 

 

how do you see your chapter in comparison to ohter chapters.

Where are their strenghts and where do they lack in comparison.?

Which chapter are on the same level and which are above?

Which one do you think have a similar playstyle.

And how do you peform against the other chapters?

 

At first of all: I play very competitive but not as experienced at the moment as some hardcore TTS-players out there.

(played two tournaments - one before shutdown last year with 4-1-0 and one I had chancellled by 1-1-0)

 

I think my chapter (BT) is on a very good spot. The new teaser confirmed the rumors more or less but on the table currently:

 

- I think with WS we have the strongest melee based chapter. BA sound very strong but are not close when its about competitve lists. For normal lists a Sanguard will always outperform a crusadersquad for sure. But devot pushed with "emperors will" and high buffed ( Crusaders helm + +1 Attack litany ) Vanguard Vets and 5+++ Terminators will outperform most other SM units in melee.

 

- Our strenghts is our mobility and our access to 5+++ 4++ and we have the best chaplains BY FAR!!!. We lack in shooting. Each other chapter have good stratagems and not entirley based on buffchars. 

 

- I think there are just DA who are really stronger. Most times it depends on the player but ther is no chapter except DA which is clearly stronger.

I am sure that all chapters beside WS and Ultramarines are not strong as BT at the moment.

 

- I think that White Scars are very similar to BT in terms of playstyle. Both are very fast but differs in a few things like output + mobility is higher for WS but we can buff one unit to maximum which would outperform each other WS unit.

 

-  BA ( very good matchup),

Dark Angels ( very hard matchup),

SW (tricky one because they have very good counter abilities but should be a good matchup - just played one game against them),

UM ( very good against them),

Although they have bad statistics in 40kstatcentre,... Raven Guard can be hard when they have first turn but we can handle them.

DW (very good match up) 

IF (sorry brothers - your shooting output is still not bad but in all my games IF and CF are THAT immobile - it hurts)

Iron Hands ( if there is enough space on the table they shoot us to death but if there is good terrain - its the opposite)

Salamanders ( didnt played against them. THink their output is outstanding but their lack of mobility should give us a huge advantage)

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I think shooty with a strong counter assault element is the easiest to play currently. I have done well with my Iron Hands versus choppy Marines and Deathguard. In the present meta I think any chapter can do well as another if played to its strengths.

Edited August 2, 2021 by Black Blow Fly

[Medjugorje]

i have the feeling the people dont like such discussions^^

[Jorin Helm-splitter]

i have the feeling the people dont like such discussions^^

 

I think its more that most of us just don't have enough experience to judge most of the matchups. I've only played against Salamanders and Ultra Marines with my wolves (edit: in 9th). To complicate it further my Ultra Marine opponent only runs infantry so it's pretty unique take. So just about purely based on theory hammer this is how I would list my matchups.

 

BA - I think this is a pretty even for wolves. In general our goes last debuffs are still pretty useful against other marine chapters (though substantially less so after the strikes last faq).  That said +1 to wound is really useful against us.

 

BT - I'm really hesitant to judge the matchup. For wolves the index didn't really matchup with the codex supplement. Devout Push is just really amazing and if I knew for sure if they would keep it I would consider it a tougher matchup.

 

DA - Is tough to judge because deathwing and ravenwing both can provide some challenges. For my wolf army in particular this will be a tougher matchup if my opponent has the book figured out. I just think finding the sweetspot will be difficult for most players because I do think your play style will affect what works so it feels like a more of a moving target than most marine armies.

 

DW - I actually like this matchup for wolves. We're both going dread heavy and while we both have similar protections I really think our strikes last abilities can edge them out. That said their shooting is better vs. the field, and their dread protection isn't reliant on psychic powers or stratagems which is important so I expect to see a lot of them. 

 

IF - Really need a new supplement or to have some nerfs taken out of the FAQ. 

 

IH - Dreads are really strong this edition, and they have great stratagems to use on them. I think they'll be tough a matchup for my wolves. 

 

RG - Feel like IF where they should just get a new book. They play the missions better though, and a good player is going to be pretty dangerous with them.

 

SL - Still really solid on offense, and very durable. They'll be a tough matchup, because they're great at playing at objectives.

 

UM - They're tough to judge. Being able to retreat and shoot is actually pretty problematic for my wolves. What really hurts them are the good armies that just don't plan on charging or only do so with overwhelming force. They also are the poster boys so you have a lot of newer players running them, so I think overall I would say its a good matchup but I think a veteran player is going to be difficult.

 

WS - Before the strikes last clarification I think I would have considered this a good matchup for wolves. Now I think scars may have a slight edge they're a lot faster and need less support for their units.

 

I will say that I don't think any of the matchups are that lopsided. I think where you will really notice the difference between the marine supplements is against non marine forces. We just share a lot of great general purpose units. 

Edited August 2, 2021 by Jorin Helm-splitter

[Dracos]

Terrain type and density are a big factor in how each Chapter played also. Throw in mission conditions and there’s just too many factors to pick a tier of Marines after DA. Let’s see how this shakes out after the rest of us get new Supplements.

 

I know while I’ve still had a lot of success with my RG Successors, it depends a lot on going first. Too much of what made Raven Guard play style unique was either watered down by others armies being able to do something very similar or were just nerfed by new terrain rules to be on par with Dark Angels.

 

I have thought about diving into Deathwatch. One would think with most the Xenos books out or coming out soon the boys in black should be meta stoppers

[Jorin Helm-splitter]

Terrain type and density are a big factor in how each Chapter played also. Throw in mission conditions and there’s just too many factors to pick a tier of Marines after DA. Let’s see how this shakes out after the rest of us get new Supplements.

 

I know while I’ve still had a lot of success with my RG Successors, it depends a lot on going first. Too much of what made Raven Guard play style unique was either watered down by others armies being able to do something very similar or were just nerfed by new terrain rules to be on par with Dark Angels.

 

I have thought about diving into Deathwatch. One would think with most the Xenos books out or coming out soon the boys in black should be meta stoppers

 

Yeah I tend to agree with this. I mainly made my list of matchups as a thought exercise more than trying to rate the chapters. 40k is just a really hard game to judge. Terrain is a great example to bring up because it's hardly uniform, but even things like player skill are really hard to quantify.

 

I do think there is value in using lots of tournament results to judge general strength. Armies that win 60% or less than 40% are pretty easy to judge but the rest of the armies are a lot more difficult to rank.

[Medjugorje]

Terrain type and density are a big factor in how each Chapter played also. Throw in mission conditions and there’s just too many factors to pick a tier of Marines after DA. Let’s see how this shakes out after the rest of us get new Supplements.

 

I know while I’ve still had a lot of success with my RG Successors, it depends a lot on going first. Too much of what made Raven Guard play style unique was either watered down by others armies being able to do something very similar or were just nerfed by new terrain rules to be on par with Dark Angels.

 

I have thought about diving into Deathwatch. One would think with most the Xenos books out or coming out soon the boys in black should be meta stoppers

 

ohh yes. The Terrain have big effect. Against a shooty IH army I was blown away in open fields where I had very good use in terrain with many ruins without base.

 

@Jorin Helm-splitter

 

another thing i agree with. In 40k stat centre they said that BT have a generally bad winrate but a very good "first loss" statistic. That result could be shown how great the skill-gap is by this faction.

 

And like you early said... it depends on so much things to consider a matchup as good or bad when most of your Ultramarine opponents used to be newbies and that one guy for example who always plays Tau is an competitive tourney-player with huge experience ( although bad codex power plays them as close as perfect ) - you will have another view on the faction

Edited August 4, 2021 by Medjugorje

[Jacques Corbin]

Yeah, I agree with the above. We need new supplements for the various chapters. I honestly think they will come out after a few more xenos releases. Astartes are GW's flagship faction after all.

[Riddlesworth]

with smaller boards, universal outflank access and missions focused on holding objectives/dominating the mid board, the salamander mobility piece isn't nearly so much of a problem.

 

What is a problem for them is the limited unit selection and playstyle you have to adopt to be successful. you're predictable as an opponent.

[Hantheman]

DA player

 

Most Space Marine armies are fine for me to kill. DA work as a powerful anti-elite army that either outflanks and shoots other elite armies or out-lives them.

 

The problem is the entire of 9th edition has been built to kill elites (hence Space Marines tumbling win rates). Every other army can punch up better than Space Marines can punch down.

Edited August 17, 2021 by Hantheman

[Claws and Effect]

My Chapter got a nasty stealth nerf that I'm still salty about.

 

Chapter Tactics require more distance this edition. Not a big deal overall, but combined with making the board size smaller that hurt pretty bad.

 

It's frustrating when your chapter tactics can be nullified in the movement phase by pretty much anyone.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

My Chapter got a nasty stealth nerf that I'm still salty about.

 

Chapter Tactics require more distance this edition. Not a big deal overall, but combined with making the board size smaller that hurt pretty bad.

 

It's frustrating when your chapter tactics can be nullified in the movement phase by pretty much anyone.

I'm playing my Alpha Legion in a friendly escalation league right now, and actually getting a benefit from that >12" range ability is hard. I feel your pain.

[Rik Lightstar]

I've got White Scars, I'm loving the smaller play area!

 

Rik

[Claws and Effect]

I've got White Scars, I'm loving the smaller play area!

 

Rik

My wife's Blood Angels are enjoying it too.

 

I've had to stop playing her with my Raven Guard.

 

I just don't have any real answer for her Chapter without going full meta and being That Guy.