Hellblasters - which weapon type?

[_Valten_]

I've been toying with the ideas of running a squad of Hellblasters in my list.  I don't run overly competitive, but at the same time I don't want to be stomped in every game I play.

 

I'm running an UM successor chapter, so I'll be able to move about without penalty in turns 2 and 3; but I was wondering which of the Plasma Incinerator variants is the most useful in an all rounder list?

 

At the moment my anti-tank consists of Plasma on a Redemptor, Heavy Melta Rifles on a squad of Eradicators, and a Storm Speeder Thunderstrike.

 

I like the idea of having Heavy Plasma in a squad - the ability to throw out some extra Damage 3 shots is always useful, but I've been wondering if it's worthwhile opting for one of the lower-strength weapons to generate more shots.

 

I'm not particularly good from a Math-hammer perspective, so I'd be grateful for any insight.

Edited August 2, 2021 by _Valten_

[Xenith]

 

I like the idea of having Heavy Plasma in a squad - the ability to throw out some extra D3 shots is always useful, but I've been wondering if it's worthwhile opting for one of the lower-strength weapons to generate more shots.

 

 

Where are the extra D3 shots coming from? Heavy plasma incinerators are still only one shot. Plasma cannons are D3. 

 

Who are your most regular opponents? will they have backup Heavy is great for killing primaris without having to overcharge, and can overcharge to one shot plague marines.

 

Assault are the best in my eyes, if you're going after elite infantry, which they should be. Unit of 10 has a max damage of 60 if they overcharge, compared to 40 on the normal, and 30 on the heavy, however they're more likely to kill themselves. 

 

Heavy are better off at the back like an old school devastator squad, assault better moving up the field. 

 

10 API's shooting cause 13.3 unsaved wounds on t43+ save. heavy causes 5.55 wounds and ~12 damage. Against 2 wound models, they're much of a muchness, API's win against 1w models. If you overcharge, API's blow HPI's out of the water. 

[Karhedron]

Unless you specifically want them for an anti-tank role, the general consensus is that the Assault 3 version of the gun is best.

 

They have a good rate of fire meaning you can clear chaff on a 2+ or 3+ in most cases. When faced with MEQs or vehicles, you can overcharge provided you have a Captain nearby to reroll those pesky 1s. The combination of high ROF and good AP really does make them them perfect swiss army knife unit. The ability to Advance and shoot mitigates the shorter range and can come in handy for getting around LOS-blocking terrain.

 

Unlike the Rapid Fire variant, you won't kill Marines on a 2+ when overcharged but the higher volume of shots more than compensates for that. They struggle more against vehicles but you look like you have decent amounts of melta already in your list. I would definitely go Assault 3 guns all the way.

 

Hellblasters are expensive and a little fragile, especially if you want to overcharge them so if you are investing in a squad, it is worth investing in some support for them. The following characters would be order of preference.

 

1. Captain: Sooner or later you will want to overcharge and when you do, this guy will minimise your casualties and maximise your damage output by rerolling 1s. He also provides some melee ability if you get charged. Gravis armour with heavy bolt rifle would be my preferred loadout but others are good too.

2. Apothecary: These guys will have a big bullseye painted on their helmets so giving them a 6+++ and the ability to resurrect 1 fallen model a turn and heal another is a great boon.

3. Company Ancient: Make your enemy pay for every Hellblaster they kill by shooting on a 4+ when they die. Combines very nicely with the Apothecary to make them get up again.

[_Valten_]

 

 

Where are the extra D3 shots coming from? Heavy plasma incinerators are still only one shot. Plasma cannons are D3. 

 

 

Sorry, the D3 was for Damage 3, I've updated the original post now.

 

 

Regular opponents will probably consist of marines and orks, but it's been a while since I've been able to get any games in due to Covid so it's likely that it'll change.  I'm ideally looking for something that's more of an 'all rounder'; and based on what you've put I might be best going for the AIPs.

[Karhedron]

If you want an all-rounder than APIs definitely sound the way to go. T5 Ork also means than Assault 3 guns with S6 will really help thin the green horde. Just remember to screen them from melee if at all possible.

[Ragnar69]

I think Ultras have a strat that lets them reroll 1s so they don't really need a babysitter.

Inceptors might also be an option with more mobility

[Karhedron]

I think Ultras have a strat that lets them reroll 1s so they don't really need a babysitter.

Only applies to Troops units IIRC. Shame as it would be really good otherwise (possibly too good ).

 

Inceptors might also be an option with more mobility

That is a very good suggestion. I do love my plasma Inceptors. They fulfil a very similar niche and each Inceptor is basically 2 Hellblasters stuck together. Extra speed compensates for the shorter range. They are S7/8 rather than S6/7. Even more than Hellblasters they need a Captain (who now needs a Jump Pack or Bike to keep up) while an Apothecary and Ancient are unlikely to be able to keep up.

 

I run Inceptors in preference to Hellblasters BUT I play Blood Angels so I have access to a Jump Apothecary in the form of the Sanguinary Priest. For other Chapters it is more marginal and probably depends more on whether you have Fast or Heavy slots available.

 

10 Hellblasters will set you back 330 points and put out 30 shots. The same points will get you 6 Plasma Inceptors who will put out an average of 24 shots but this goes up to 36 if you are firing at a squad of 6 or more thanks to Blast. The Hellblasters have 20 T4 wounds while the Inceptors have 18 T5 wounds.

 

Overall the two units are very close in terms of capabilities and which one you go for will largely depend on the rest of your army and how you want to play them.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

That strat troops reroll all misses, others reroll 1s.

[Karhedron]

That strat troops reroll all misses, others reroll 1s.

Well spotted. That will teach me to rely on internet summaries rather than reading the full text for myself. Sons of Guilliman is also only 1CP, even for a full sized squad of Hellblasters or Plasma Inceptors so definitely provides an alternative to a babysitting captain.

 

I recognize my failing and will be sure to correct it.

[Galron]

Like someone says, depends on your needs. If you have anti-armor taken care of go assault. One thing I have not seen on this thread is the tendency of the newer codices to have insane defensive abilities. Death Guard drop damage by one. Sisters ignore AP -1 and -2. I include Inceptors in this as they are great vs both these bugbear armies without the negative of blowing themselves up. For an assault oriented list throw the assault hellblasters into impulsors with their buffing character. Drive them forward, get out, and open fire. 15 shots even with the lower strength will shred a plague marine squad especially if they have a buffing character improving their hits or wounding. You might not kill it but you will come close to making it combat ineffective. Plus you dont have to overcharge and risk losing anyone. Its about the only good thing about the new hotness armies. 

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I still like rapid fire.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

Whichever one has the most shots! Edited August 3, 2021 by Inquisitor_Lensoven