New GW/Citadel White STC brushes

[Helias_Tancred]

I've been using them for almost two months and I'm very happy with them. The Layer S(mall) is my favorite. Overall they are better than their other black handled brushes when I use them side by side. 

 

I also use some W&N series 7 brushes and I like them almost as much. I say kudos for doing so well with man-made fibers.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Magos Takatus]

I bought one to try out and it already has a hooked tip. I didn't expect much from them and still ended up disappointed. Now it's been rotated into "old brush" duties.

[Ramell]

I've used mine for about two months as well, purely for metal paints. Not particularly heavily, but I've painted a few bolt rifles and such. Hooked tip almost immediately, though it doesn't seem to have gotten any worse since then, and it can be compensated for. Definitely not the ideal brushes for any kind of detail work, but I think they're adequate for basecoats and layering and such.

They also stain quickly and paint can get stuck in them a bit, so regular cleaning helps.

For any kind of truly fine details, I'd rather use some of my good kolinsky brushes and accept the additonal wear.

[Helias_Tancred]

I've used mine for about two months as well, purely for metal paints. Not particularly heavily, but I've painted a few bolt rifles and such. Hooked tip almost immediately, though it doesn't seem to have gotten any worse since then, and it can be compensated for. Definitely not the ideal brushes for any kind of detail work, but I think they're adequate for basecoats and layering and such.

They also stain quickly and paint can get stuck in them a bit, so regular cleaning helps.

For any kind of truly fine details, I'd rather use some of my good kolinsky brushes and accept the additonal wear.

 

Which brand's  Kolinsky brushes do you use?

 

Mine hooked too but like you said its easily compensated.

[Ramell]

Which brand's  Kolinsky brushes do you use?

 

Mine hooked too but like you said its easily compensated.

Raphael, 8404 series. I also have some W&N Series 7 Miniature brushes.

[Firedrake Cordova]

Which brand's  Kolinsky brushes do you use?

I know you weren't asking me, but as I've tried far too many brushes ... if you're looking for natural hair brushes, as well as the Raphael 8404's that have been suggested (which are great), it may be worth also having a look at Isabey Series 6228 (apparently made in the same factory as the Raphaels - they have slightly more spring in my experience), and Da Vinci Maestro Series 35 or Series 10 (Series 35 has a fatter handle, bigger belly, and a longer taper to the bristles when compared to Series 10). You probably don't need anything other than a size 1 & 2. :)

 

Some of the Winsor & Newton Series 7's I've got are great, and some of them really are not (something of a "recent" thing, starting say 2016) - I personally wouldn't buy them via mail order.

 

I've seen some Americans say it's cheaper to source their brushes from Jackson's Art Supplies in the UK, than it is American stores (postage on brush-only orders is under $5).

 

N.B. The handle of the Isabey brushes is about 1 finger-width longer than other brushes - this may or may not be an issue.

[Xenith]

 

 

Some of the Winsor & Newton Series 7's I've got are great, and some of them really are not (something of a "recent" thing, starting say 2016) - I personally wouldn't buy them via mail order.

 

Glad I'm not the only one who noticed this. I used a couple of series 7's (2010 - 2013?) and loved them before moving away from a local supplier. Moving back to wher I can get my hands on them a couple of years ago, they dont seem to last as long or hold a point as well, they seem to war fast. Definitely not the same brushes I used before...

Edited August 9, 2021 by Xenith

[Magos Takatus]

I also noticed this with my last batch of W&N brushes. One of them lost it's point almost immediately. I'm working with more diluted paint than I used to so perhaps it makes it easier to get  drawn into the ferrule compared to me using the paint right from the pot? I don't know but I'd like to discover why brushes just don't seem to last compared to the old GW brushes I used to use.

[Firedrake Cordova]

I also noticed this with my last batch of W&N brushes. One of them lost it's point almost immediately. 

For me it wasn't that the point wore out, but that the old brushes I have (2001-2010) are essentially shaped like a spear-tip, with a reasonable belly located next to the ferrule, and the brush drawing to a point. At least half of the brushes I've received since 2016 have been a different shape - more like a flame, with the belly further towards the tip, which makes it harder to come to a point, if that makes sense.

 

I'm working with more diluted paint than I used to so perhaps it makes it easier to get  drawn into the ferrule compared to me using the paint right from the pot?

As long as you try to keep the last 50% of the bristles clear of paint (gives you a safety net), and clean them out properly, it should be OK. I use Chroma/Jo-Sonja's liquid brush soap to clean my brushes, and then "set them" using Master's Brush Soap (as in apply a light lather to a clean brush, let it set, and store it like that - it conditions the brush, and sets the point).

 

I don't know but I'd like to discover why brushes just don't seem to last compared to the old GW brushes I used to use.

The quality of the brush is somewhat determined by the hair used, which is dependent upon the climate at the time it was "collected" - as Siberia warms up, so the quality of the hair declines. Plus any changes in production methods that may or may not have happened (obviously ).

Edited August 9, 2021 by Firedrake Cordova

[Tyberos the Red Wake]

 

Which brand's  Kolinsky brushes do you use?

 

Mine hooked too but like you said its easily compensated.

Raphael, 8404 series. I also have some W&N Series 7 Miniature brushes.

 

 

More people need to use Raphael 8404's. I don't know how W&N S7 became the household name, and they do have a better production value and a nice tube, but Raphael 8404 have the higher quality tips. The hairs are longer and the bellies fuller for the same price. W&N S7 are easily only the second best kolinsky rounds on the market, at best. Raphael 8404 are the undisputed top choice unless you are someone who prefers shorter or stiffer bristles.

[Arkhanist]

First off, I wanted to thank Helias Tancred, and Magos Takatus and Ramell. The only question I had about the GW synthetic brushes was whether they'd found a synthetic material that didn't hook as quickly. Clearly, they have not, and there seems little reason to pay 2 or 3 times the price over a good artist synthetic, or even 4 times a cheap one. I have several of the latter; they're great for metallics to protect more pricy natural brushes, and the extra stiffness can help with precision brush control. But they often hook so quickly, and while it can be recovered with heat and brush gel, it's a major downside. Plus the point does fade quicker over time than a good natural brush. The search for a better synthethic continues!
 
I'm not surprised they're better (initially, at least) than GW standard sable (black) brushes - those are seriously overpriced for mediocre brushes. Anyone who's thinking of them, should at least consider rosemary and co series 33; for roughly the same price, you can get a far, far better sable, with great aftersales. It may not be up there with the absolutely finest brushes that cost twice as much, but it's a helluva lot closer than it should be for what is a mid-range price brush.
 
 

More people need to use Raphael 8404's. I don't know how W&N S7 became the household name, and they do have a better production value and a nice tube, but Raphael 8404 have the higher quality tips. The hairs are longer and the bellies fuller for the same price. W&N S7 are easily only the second best kolinsky rounds on the market, at best. Raphael 8404 are the undisputed top choice unless you are someone who prefers shorter or stiffer bristles.

I too have extolled the virtues of 8404s here many times :) They are great brushes. I think W&N is coasting somewhat on past greatness; for a long time, the quality was truly outstanding, every time. After a couple of bad 7's in a row, I did switch to 8404 for several years. I have to admit though, I have gone back to series 7 because a) they're just so easily available in the UK (being a UK manufacturer, not surprising), and a local shop stocks them, but not 8404. and b] because I do indeed ultimately prefer the better snap on the 7's. But it's very much pot luck if you get a brush that splits in a week these days, or one that lasts for years - or even if the point is just OK or great. I don't know if it's quality control, or trouble sourcing hairs, but it's a noticeable drop in reliability in the last 4 or 5 years at least. But if you get a good one, the point can still be amazing; but I wouldn't gamble on ordering online any more.

[Kastor Krieg]

I also cannot sing a higher praise of the Escoda Reserva series. They're about as pricy as the Raphaels, but they're awesome especially for wet blending, ink and wash work, etc - they are less springy, softer and with larger bellies. 

[Helias_Tancred]

Well .... my initial observation and opinion was wrong, they're sorta garbage. My original STC S layer brush was definitely hooked a while back but now the bristles keep splitting apart quickly into a painting session. This is after using The Master's brush cleaner to sculpt and retain a point (albeit hooked) regularly over the past month or two. So I went to the second S Layer brush I purchased a week or two ago ... bristles immediately split apart 5 minutes into painting. So bleh. Garbage.

 

I will end up going with the recommendations on here, or go to the college art store nearby that sells W&N Series 7s and replace my current old ones?

[Firedrake Cordova]

Well .... my initial observation and opinion was wrong, they're sorta garbage. My original STC S layer brush was definitely hooked a while back but now the bristles keep splitting apart quickly into a painting session. 

Well, that sucks. I take it reshaping them in hot water and setting them with brush soap or gum arabic doesn't help?

 

I will end up going with the recommendations on here, or go to the college art store nearby that sells W&N Series 7s and replace my current old ones?

If you're looking for natural hair brushes, I'd say going to art art store and trying them is the best approach. Raphael Series 8404, Isabey Series 6228, Da Vinci Maestro Series 35 and Series 10, Escoda Reserva, and (a good) Winsor & Newton Series 7 are all excellent brushes, although they have their own distinct characteristics, so which one is better for you is more of a personal taste decision. A size 1/2 should be what you want.

 

However, it is a bit of a "waste" to use them to do just base coating, so you may well be better-off looking at a cheaper option for that - either a good artist's synthetic for watercolours (like a W&N Cotman), or a cheaper natural hair brush (I've heard some good things about the Army Painter brushes in that respect, although I've never tried them).

 

P.S. I'm sure there are good North American manufacturers of paint brushes, but I am familiar with the European manufacturers only given where I live. :)

Edited August 11, 2021 by Firedrake Cordova

[Tyberos the Red Wake]

Escoda Reserva brushes look amazing. The craftsmanship with the knurled handles looks great.

[Firedrake Cordova]

Escoda Reserva brushes look amazing. The craftsmanship with the knurled handles looks great.

Escoda make very nice brushes. Not only are they by far the "prettiest" brushes I own (I have Prado's and Versatil's, and Jackson's-branded Reserva's), but they have (for me) by far the most comfortable handles (they're a bit chubbier than those used by the other manufacturers).

 

Their production process is interesting, as it involves ironing the bristles...

Edited August 11, 2021 by Firedrake Cordova

[Arkhanist]

Well .... my initial observation and opinion was wrong, they're sorta garbage. My original STC S layer brush was definitely hooked a while back but now the bristles keep splitting apart quickly into a painting session. This is after using The Master's brush cleaner to sculpt and retain a point (albeit hooked) regularly over the past month or two. So I went to the second S Layer brush I purchased a week or two ago ... bristles immediately split apart 5 minutes into painting. So bleh. Garbage.

 

I will end up going with the recommendations on here, or go to the college art store nearby that sells W&N Series 7s and replace my current old ones?

 

FWIW, in addition to my S7 for blending/edges/detail, and dirt cheap synthentics for metallics, I use army painter white handled wargamer brushes for base coating, Contrast and washes as well as their drybrushes. The Regiment brush in particular is an absolute workhouse, and deservedly well rated (f.ex Duncan Rhodes uses one for the same purpose). It can take a serious beating and keep going, I'm using one that's several years old and still going strong. The point is not as sharp as my kolinsky, especially after many, many cleanings, but it's up there with a rosemary series 33. S7's are expensive, so I do try to protect them as much as I can and only use them when I need that precision.

 

With my hands getting crampy as I get older, the triangle handle on the AP brushes is an absolute blessing too. I just wish I could get all my brushes with a similar handle.

Edited August 11, 2021 by Arkhanist

[WrathOfTheLion]

I've been using the white/STC medium layer brush for a bit now, and I quite like it. I've had a better experience with it than with their standard medium layer brush.

[Bryan Blaire]

I’ve had my STC Layer S for a couple of weeks now, and I’ve been using it only for metallics - the point does seem to be starting to hook just slightly.  It’s not a brilliantly sharp point, but it is still pointed.  I’m not sure it is really doing any good, but I’m utilizing “The Masters” brush cleaner and preserver on it just like I would any standard brush - I doubt it’s really helping it keep the point like it helps condition non-synthetic.  I’m not sure it’s as good as a W&N Cotman or the pricier Professional watercolor synthetics though, so for metallics, I think I will stick with one of those - they are at least as good, and cheaper.

[Mandragola]

I've got a fairly thick drybrush from this range and it seems pretty decent. That may be more of a reflection on the dreadful quality of the drybrushes I was using before, I suppose.

[MithrilForge]

Well if you want a synthetic brush but want to pay GW's hefty price tag you should probably get a new W&N synthetic - 

 

Rigger brushes - 

Professional Watercolour Synthetic Sable Brush | Winsor & Newton (winsornewton.com)

 

 

Round - 

Professional Watercolour Synthetic Sable Brush | Winsor & Newton (winsornewton.com)

 

 

Mithril

[Dantay VI]

I have found the Rosemary & co red dot series to be pretty ggod.

[Bryan Blaire]

So in relation to the topic, I picked up a pair of Mimik synthetic sables to use alongside the GW STC brushes I have.  The Mimiks cost about 1/2 - 2/3rds the price of the STC brushes, so I mind losing them to metallics even less than the GW ones, and they seem to have remained more straight than the GW brushes do.  The tip on my size 1 Mimik has about the same lack of point after two weeks as the GW one was, but the 00 is in much better condition.  I haven’t been able to get any more W&N Cotmans, but compared to the one I do have, I like the Mimiks better - I haven’t been able to get any of the W&N Professional synthetics though.