9th Edition Thousand Sons Codex Game Feedback

[Xenith]

Been on a bit of a win streak recently with the sons, but only in my local meta. I've tried the Mass rubrics time malarky, and just tried a duplicity list - I've had to rethink what I take since GW nixxed dual cults. My list was:

 

2000 Cult of Duplicity

Ahriman, gaze, doombolt, firestorm

Exalted, dilettante, weaver, glamour, orrery, crystal, misinformation

Infernal Master - fires, malestrom, daemon's eye, seeker after shadows

 

10 rubrics, soulreaper - desecration of worlds

10 rubrics, soulreaper - temporal surge

5 rubrics - desecreation, soulreaper

5 rubrics, temporal, 4 flamers

11 Tzaangor

 

10 SOT's, 2x reapers, 2x racks, temporal, coalescance

Contemptor, dual volkite

Hellbrute, MM, PF, Bolter

 

4x spawn

 

I went 90-25 (max points, no painting bonus) against a dark angels force. We played the 2022 mission Data Scry, the goats sat at the back and did the mission action while everything else went out and stole objectives. Brutally, in T2 i facaded a unit near my opponent's home objective, then took it T3 so they could'nt perform the action any more. 

 

I took stranglehold, to the last and mutate landscape, and I was pretty pleased with how it went! Again, the VolCon was brutal, despite not shooting T1 - Vaporised a 5 man intercessor squad in one round, even at 170, this will stay in the list, but needs protecting. 

 

Gaze has been a bit rubbish for me, and I might swap out for twist or Devolution - then use a cp to swap devolution for something else if there are no good targets. 

Edited February 15, 2022 by Xenith

[Brother Kraskor]

I've only played a few games myself but I can't overstate the effect Sorcerous Facade has. Opponents are constantly second-guessing themselves. Will a bunch of Terminators show up suddenly? Maybe 10 Warpflamers? Positioning becomes so difficult for opponents and so simple for us (hide behind obscuring, buff unit, teleport unit in, profit). 

[Mushkilla]

I've been doing well in my current meta too.

 

The last 5 games I've been running a bunch of different time lists. Duplicity is fantastic but it doesn't give you game winning mobility. By game winning mobility I mean mobility that gets you onto objectives that you opponent controls.  Time gives you a different kind of mobility, one that can't be zoned. If your opponent kills two scarab occult terminators he is giving that unit just over 7" of additional mobility (time flux + warped regeneration). Most opponents are not prepared to see scarabs move 17+2d6+3+3" in a turn.

 

I find Ubrelific crystal is enough to get the second guessing effect that duplicity does (and the threat of a first turn jump).

 

A nice combo that works with both umbrelific and/or duplicity is getting a 5" charge out of redeployment by using (time flux or warped regeneration) to get a model back. It's easy to guarantee warped regeneration with pact from beyond and smite.

 

I always use Ahriman for buffs as he makes them much more reliable.

 

My current list is:

 

HQS

 

Exalted Sorcerer, disk, Dilettante - 160

Relic: Prism of Echoes and Athenaean Scroll

Powers: Temporal Surge, Temporal Manipulation

WL: Immaterial Echo

 

Ahriman, disk - 180

Powers: Prescience, Weaver of Fates, Glamour of Tzeentch

 

Exalted Sorcerer, disk, rehati - 150

Powers: Emperic Guidance, Firestorm

Relic: Umbralefic Crystal

 

ELITES

10 Scarab Occult, Cacodaemonic Curse, coalescence - 415

10 Scarab Occult, Cacodaemonic Curse - 400

 

TROOPS

5 rubrics, aspiring sorcerer, 4 warpflamer, icon - 139

Powers: Doombolt

5 rubrics, aspiring sorcerer, 4 warpflamer, icon - 139

Powers: Doombolt

5 rubrics, aspiring sorcerer, 4 warpflamer, icon - 139

Powers: Doombolt

5 rubrics, aspiring sorcerer, 4 warpflamer, icon - 139

Powers: Doombolt

5 rubrics, aspiring sorcerer, 4 warpflamer, icon - 139

Powers: Doombolt

 

Points: 2000

Command Points: 11

Cabbal Points: 21

Edited February 20, 2022 by Mushkilla

[Xenith]

I wish I had more warpflamers! I think 5 man flame units have more utility with Duplicty also, though. 

 

Good thoughts on Time - it's definitely powerful, but even with surge on everything I found I couldn't reach out and touch things.

 

Also, you only get an extra 2"+40mm base extra range from Time shenannigans in a 6+ man unit - models replaced by time flux or regeneration have to be in coherency, so both have to be within 2" of 2 models.  This still corrsponds to neding a ~5 to charge instead of a 9, so still strong, but not as good as you say. Unless you're running 5 man units of terms with coalescence and get precisely 2 killed, then teleport them next turn.

 

That said, Time flux is a lot more reliable than facade. 

[Mushkilla]

I wish I had more warpflamers! I think 5 man flame units have more utility with Duplicty also, though. 

 

They are still pretty good without duplicity. Their strength is advance and shoot (so faster than regular rubrics), and that they are a lot more dangerous. I find combined with smite it makes rushing my army a lot less tempting (being rushed is one of our weaknesses in my experience, especially if you reserve your terminators).

 

Also, you only get an extra 2"+40mm base extra range from Time shenannigans in a 6+ man unit - models replaced by time flux or regeneration have to be in coherency, so both have to be within 2" of 2 models.  This still corrsponds to neding a ~5 to charge instead of a 9, so still strong, but not as good as you say. Unless you're running 5 man units of terms with coalescence and get precisely 2 killed, then teleport them next turn.

 

Good point, I should have mentioned you get less movement when they are above five models. But I often find that units get down below six. Same with Unwavering Phalanx, you can wait until the squad drops below 6 models before using it so that you pay 1CP (as you can chose to activate it whenever the unit gets targeted). The real power is the extra movement towards objectives regardless of deepstrike/teleports (though charging out of deepstrike is nice). We'll that and getting back 1-2 40pt models. 

 

Still, I miss duplicity. 

[Xenith]

I've been sticking with the 10 man units as a regular guard player can easily kill 3-5 in a turn with manticores, and when they get to 2-3 it's harder to shield my characters without strats, but maybe 2x5 would work also with time. 

[Xenith]

So I'm in the International Team Tourney this Friday, and now lists are up, I can share here:

 

2000 Cult of Duplicity, 9CP, 14 CaP

Ahriman, Disc, devolution, doombolt, firestorm

Exalted, dilettante, weaver, glamour, prism, crystal, misinformator

Infernal Master - fires, maelstrom, presage, daemon's eye, seeker after shadows

 

10 rubrics, soulreaper - desecration

10 rubrics, soulreaper - temporal

5 rubrics, soulreaper - desecration

5 rubrics, 4 flamers, warpflame pistol, temporal

10 Tzaangor

 

10 SOT's, 2x reapers, 2x racks, temporal, coalescance

Contemptor, dual volkite

Hellbrute, MM, PF, Bolter

 

4x spawn

 

Key changes were swapping orrery for prism, which might be a mistake, then gaze for devolution on Ahriman. If there's no good targets I'll CP it out for gaze, or just use smite. There's some really tough looking lists out there, hopefully my mishmash can compete! I count 30+ custodes lists, of which >20 are with the 4+ ignore mortals, so that might be a bad match for me. No denying ability though. 

[Ulfast]

Looks like a intersting list with several solid good choses. Good luck with your tournament Xenith!

[Xenith]

Thanks! still finding my feet with the codex really and have limited model choices, most of my army being from 3rd ed, but there are several moving parts that do ok with one another, lets see how it holds up! 

[WarriorFish]

Good luck Xen, looking forward to hearing how it goes :tu:

[Ulfast]

So anyone had any experince yet with facing the new eldars? Seems like they could really be hard for us but I don´t know yet if that is true. 

[Xenith]

So anyone had any experince yet with facing the new eldars? Seems like they could really be hard for us but I don´t know yet if that is true. 

 

Seeing as they haven't been released yet, that might be tricky!

 

Just back from the tourney now, I went 4-1 with the above list, winning against Drukhari (raiding party); Custodes (shadowkeepers); Sisters (Bloody Rose + Vahl); Bad Moonz SpeedWaagh buggy list, with my loss against another buggy list with 2 Kill Rigs. 

 

Seeing as the loss was in my first game, and never having played buggies or kill rigs before, particularly under chess clock conditions, lets chalk that up to learning.

 

Will post some more information eventually. 

[Xenith]

I've posted the lists I faced in my Chaos log here.

[Naryn]

Looks like some tough matchups there. What would you say was the toughest list or situation you came up against during that tournament?

[Xenith]

Good question! I really felt the lack of ranged anti tank here - the list with 2 kill rigs then the 2 raiders, I managed to get one rig as I think they underestimated TS psychic phase and got too close, but I didn't get the other rig, and then v custodes the infantry themselves were more a threat than the raiders, so the raiders escaped unscathed from the game as all my smites had to go into custodians. 

 

I dont know what TS have in terms of reliable, High D output other than Maulerfiend Fists or hellbrute multimeltas. 

 

In terms of actual results, I'll add these to the post in my log, but I lost 69-84 to the first list, won 69-68 against drukhari, something like 72-64 v Custodes, 87-64 v sisters, then something like 87-68 v the last buggy list. Basically, all my games werre reasonably close and could have gone either way. 

 

In terms of toughest situation, it was maybe making myself play defensively and hold units behind cover until the opportune moment to expose them. The armies were so killy anything in the open would die, so I had to play cagey - even if that means my 10 man rubric blob gets no shots that turn. Overextending, or sending units out led to them dying fast - even buffed terminators. 

 

One neat trick I found that duplicity have, assuming no denials, is to move a unit up onto an opposing objective - in these games it was my termies. The termies made a mess, killed stuff in getting to an opposing objective. When the numbers were low, I'd cast mutate lanscape to steal that objective, then 1cp lets me cast a power after doing an action, then I use cabal points to make sorcerous facade go off at minimum cast, teleporting the termies back behind my lines and into safety - basically netting me 3 for mutate, then another 5 for to the last. 

 

To the last is a solid choice for us, I think I dropped no more than 20 points in it the entire tourney - as long as you keep your dudes safe in T1-2. In this case it was the terms, then 2x10 rubrics. 

[Naryn]

I'm trying to get better about exposing my troops, but it's a hard lesson to learn. I'll have to try that trick with TTL and the facading termies. None of those lists you faced seem to have had a lot of indirect fire, which is something I struggle with a lot vs Hive Guard and Astra Militarum. Any ideas on how to keep To The Last points when you can't stop a unit from being targeted?

[Xenith]

The Rukkatrukks in two of the games both had indirect fire, so that was 6D6 S5, AP-2 D2 shots coming my way, which is about 11 hits and more than enough to wipe a unit of 10 rubrics if they got lucky (these things are underpointed). 

 

Basically, you're going to get shot by the indirect fire stuff anyway, so you can hide and only get shot by that, or expose and get shot by everything. I guess the counter is that if you expose everything, your opponent may split their fire...but against TS I think a canny opponent will focus one unit to death. If you have to expose, dense cover is king - -1 to hit on orks almost halves their hits, and takes 1/3 away from guard. 

[Brother Kraskor]

Had a great 2k game against Admech today. Three critical pieces of luck went my way that sealed my opponent's fate.

 

My list:

- Magnus, Ahriman, Infernal Master

- 10 Flamers, 2x5 Bolter Rubrics

- 10 Scarabs w/ heavy weapons

- 1 Spawn

- Triple Ecto Forgefiend

- Vortex Beast

 

I don't know the names but he had roughly:

- A smattering of HQs

- Big blob of 20 skitarii

- 2x sniper skitarii units

- 6x big Robots

- 3x small robots

- 6x big cavalry

- 3x small cavalry

- Flyer

- Tank

- Artillery gun

 

We played No Man's Land (3 objectives across the middle, then one in each deployment zone). We both picked the Mission secondary (central objective worth more), then I picked Mutate Landscape and While we stand we fight (second one bad choice), he picked Engage all fronts and an Admech specific one meaning one objective of my choice was worth more to him. 

 

I went first and managed to get Magnus to charge his big cavalry needing an 11 (first piece of big luck). Forgefiend also rolled 8 shots and took out the tank. My flamers were positioned close enough to flame him off the objective I chose to be worth more for his secondary. 

 

Magnus did a stellar psychic phase and then followed up by chopping the cavalry down to one left. 

 

In opponent's turn he moved his 20-man blob to bear on Magnus, but this exposed them to the flamers which was a mistake. Second piece of critical luck for me was he shot literally everything at Magnus and he managed to survive on 1 wound. He had positioned his flyer to shoot me off my back objective but ended up having to shoot Magnus. -1 to hit and 4+ invul was sufficient to just keep him in the game. 

 

This meant everything else was unmolested. I managed to smite his flyer to 6W remaining. Magnus did a bit more psychic but by then his task was complete, he ended up blowing himself up as the cavalry could pay a CP to explode on death. Forgefiend had another decent round of shooting and took out the flyer. Scarabs came down but did very little as he had screened well. Flamers took another objective and flamed 14 skitarri, 4 ran away so the unit was effectively wiped. 

 

Opponent turn 2 his big robots came down. He could charge with 3D6 and discard lowest, even with re-roll this failed twice. Third big piece of bad luck for my opponent. I had put 4++ on the flamers and pulled -1D so they survived the shooting fairly intact. 

 

In my turn I could whittle down the Robots, Crystal some Rubrics onto another objective. Opponent finally charged flamers in turn 3 but two survived. I fell back turn 4 and wiped the robots with the Scarabs, who also finished off the last big cavalry. 

 

At this point I had scored max primary for three turns and a smattering of Mutate so my opponent conceded after sniping Ahriman (I did have a CP spare but felt my luck had been good enough to warrant sacrificing Ahriman!).

 

 

Takeaway points:

 

- Some armies can't reliably kill Magnus. But they can't ignore him either, so your whole army gets a free turn. Could capitalise on this with more longrange shooting, maybe deploy the Terminators straight away. Helped the Vortex beast get up onto an objective too. In fact deploying Termies at the start and Crystalling them straight into central objective would probably have been an excellent move

- Malefic Malestrom & Presage on the Forgefiend were great. Because enemy was either T3 or T7, there was no need to buff the Scarab bolter strength. 

- While we stand we fight is not a good secondary when it means Magnus & the flamers...!

- Empyric Guidance came in handy a lot

- Mutate is great and so easy

- 1 Spawn with no psychic buffs actually scored some points, and held up well in combat! Can't wait to try 5!

Edited April 11, 2022 by Brother Kraskor

[Xenith]

I've split the Daemon Allies rumours into it's own topic here, its definitely worthy if it's own discussion. 

 

Not played with TS in a while due to both Eldar and my Nids tournament, are they doing ok with AoC?

[dice4thedicegod]

I’ve only played a single, 1000 point, game with them. But it was against nids (albeit hydra rather than leviathan) and he had a tyranid prime, hive tyrant, trygon, haruspex with some nasty (relic) shooting. Oh, and some tyranid warriors… (who put intercessors to shame for hardly anymore points)

 

But armor of contempt helps with survivability and the cult of magic throws down a ridiculous amount of mortals.

 

I don’t know how many armies would fare though… I did ok thanks to spamming mortals but an army that relies on durability like deathguard or one that relies on physical offense like blood angels… I can’t conceive of a list I could have fielded that would have had a chance.

 

All his guys had good toughness, armor save and all the big ones we’re capable of doing 3 mortals (or more) when they charged! Oof.

[Balthamal]

I've only been playing crusade games recently but I can vouch for the brutality of the 10 SoT brick. It's absolutely fantastic. Positioned correctly with an infernal master to give them +1S on the weapons, the SoS having empyric guidance (+6" range) and a terminator sorc to give them presage for +1 hit, they're capable of putting out a stupid amount of firepower, and that's without the +1 wound or have an extra shot strats. Genuinely brilliant. I've started experimenting as well for 4x5man squads of rubrics, the flamers offer a really good counter point unit when marching up the board and the extra cabal points come in more than handy

[Plague _Lord]

Do you guys preferr Ahriman as a buff unit or a MW machine?

[Paladin777]

Cult of Magic probably would prefer him as a buffer as they do the MW thing on their own. Cult of Time would probably like him as a buffer for reliably making the typical SOT brick, even harder. For most of the others, it's probably just flavor to taste.