Warmaster Iconoclast

[schoon]

CC version of the Warmaster here...

[Lord_Borak]

Looks awesome. Nice to see a different carapace weapon although not sure how effective they'll be with a minimum range of 12" and probably a 24" range.

 

Now, I just need to know if we can swap weapons between them. Tempted by a Grav Imploder and a Plasma Destructor combo..... One can dream.

[Mandragola]

It's very cool and I'll definitely get one for my Legio Mortis. 

 

I do kind of hope the weapons are interchangeable, but it looks like they might not be. This thing has its own name after all - it's not a Warmaster with melee weapons it's a Warmaster Iconoclast.

 

That said, even if the arms aren't interchangeable some of the other systems might be. Sub-reactors and the carapace gun, for example. Those gatlings on the roof look like a great alternative to the missiles that don't really do anything. A Warmaster with a built in shield stripper (before you start adding VMBs) sounds great to me.

[Noserenda]

Similar thoughts tbh, the Gatling is unlikely to be worse than the current missiles. Im interested to see what reactor systems come with this one too, i am really hoping they havent gone full FFG and put the best upgrades for each titan in other titan's boxes given an excellent melee reactor was in the last one. 

[SkimaskMohawk]

I really just hope they keep to the trend of "multiple options, one chassis" that....every other titan follows. We didn't get a unique reaver or warlord sub-class when they expanded their weapons with a seperate plastic kit.

[schoon]

From the look of it, there should be a way to magnetize the central gatling/missile section. I haven't built my Warmaster yet, and may hold off on doing so until I have access to the new sprue.

 

...and I'm very curious about the Krius Grav Imploder. Though the chain blade and power fist look impressive, I'm not sure how often one of those big boys will end up in CC.

[SkimaskMohawk]

The carapace weapon is simply slotted in and in theory they're interchangeable without magnets as long as the grooves are the same

[Gattopardo]

Yes this looks great. Nice variety. I'm all in favour of esoteric weapons, too, so I'll be very interested to see how the Grav Imploder works. I hope it's worthwhile. There's definitely the possibility to have some different mechanics for it - they say it turns the target's mass against it, so it could do hits at a strength equal to the target's scale, or something like that. In which case it would be awesome against Warmasters and useless against Knights ..I don't know if that would work actually. But anyway, hopefully it's a well thought through option that adds a new angle. It's great to see the Warmaster getting some options, anyway - and clearly very different ones .

[Lord_Borak]

From the look of it, there should be a way to magnetize the central gatling/missile section. I haven't built my Warmaster yet, and may hold off on doing so until I have access to the new sprue.

 

 

 

You don't need to magnetise the Carapace weapon at all mate. It's a pretty tight fit and just sits there. Gravity does the rest. I haven't magnetised mine and have a couple of the Battle Bling weapons on my desk waiting to be done.

 

The Top gatlings would be a nice way to soften up shields.........yeah. Them. Twin Plasma Blast guns and a Plasma Destructor and/or a Grav thingy. Could be fun!! Although I wish they'd release a massive Gatling Cannon arm. 

 

Now we have a combat Warmaster. The Auxiliary Reactor that gives better movement suddenly seems important. 

Edited August 18, 2021 by Lord_Borak

[Mandragola]

Here we go then. Preorders for this mad giant melee monster are up this Saturday.

 

Currently, GW are bringing out great models faster than I can paint them. At least I have kind of a legitimate excuse to pause work on my Warmaster, while I wait to see if the two kits are compatible. I'll be getting one of these guys for my Mortis force.

[Dark Bjoern]

I´m not convinced. Will the Iconoclast will make it ever into CC?

[Mandragola]

I´m not convinced. Will the Iconoclast will make it ever into CC?

It won't be easy but yes. I'm not too worried about my Mortis one getting there if I use March of the Dead. I'll also probably give it two plasma blastguns, since it already comes with gatlings for stripping shields. Combining that with whatever the grav fist weapon does means this thing will have pretty serious firepower. It won't just be a distraction carnifex.

[Gattopardo]

Yes, it'll be interesting to see the rules (will it be possible to take a plasma destructor on one arm and a combat weapon on the other?) but I sort of think the Iconoclast will be playable. It's going to be faster than a Warlord, probably, with the speed upgrade thing, and like you say, between the carapace gun and shoulder weapons plus the grav gun it should still pack respectable firepower. And then Legios with any kind of movement bonus should help even more with getting it into range.

 

I'm undecided about getting one though. I've got loads of unpainted AT stuff. I've not even got any paint on my Warmaster yet, plus several unfinished Warlords for example. So while I'd like to get one I'm not seeing a need to rush into buying one at this stage. I'd be more likely to buy one if the rules let you mix weapons with the standard Warmaster I think, so I might wait and see before making a decision.

[Mandragola]

I'd be more likely to buy one if the rules let you mix weapons with the standard Warmaster I think, so I might wait and see before making a decision.

This right here is, or should be, the decisive question for me. I too have a partially-finished Warmaster. If they can mix weapons then I think it makes sense to get one of these guys and try to figure out a way to make their weapons interchangeable between Mortis and Astorum. If not then I should finish my Astorum Warmaster before getting one of these for Mortis at some point down the line.

 

As such I can't quite decide whether I'd prefer them to be able to swap. I mean it makes sense that they should be able to - the arms come with magnet holes and stuff so it would be weird if their load-outs were fixed. 

[Noserenda]

Warmasters can easily make combat, in fact in our last campaign one warmaster got across the table to pummel an enemy warmaster up against the ship hull that comprised their table edge which was absolutely brutal :D 

[schoon]

Though there's nothing but opinion behind this statement, I'd be surprised if they go to a fixed weapon option in this case.

 

Technically, there is precedent with the Psi-Titan, but I don't see this as the same thing.

[1ncarnadine]

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/11/03/behold-the-iconoclast-titan-weapons-that-can-fell-a-lesser-god-engine-in-one-swing/

Most of the stat cards are out for the Iconoclast! So, that's cool.

Unfortunately, the melee weapons all have lower strength than the Suzerains on Maximal Fire, similar dice, and cost only slightly less points. That's not great. The range on the Grav Imploder's Long attack is shorter than what I was hoping for, too.

Maybe there are some upgrades in the Traitor Legio book that will work well for a big melee engine like the Iconoclast, or they'll really benefit from being a Corrupt Titan? Otherwise, fielding one of these over a standard Warmaster is going to be pretty rough going for most Titan Legions.


edit: Actually, there's a whole unboxing video on youtube, linked here

The other ancillary upgrade is Void Shunts, which lets you declare Voids to Full! for free without pushing the reactor once per turn. And the ancillary reactors are not locked to Warmaster or Iconoclast class, so these can be mixed and matched between the two kits.

Another piece of good news is that the Cruciator Gatling Array has a 30" max range, so it's not stuck at 24" with a 12" minimum. It's only 10 points less than the Revelator for that. It's also S6 over S5! That's actually nice. This weapon probably deserves tracking gyros.

Edited November 3, 2021 by LetsYouDown

[Lord_Borak]

Thanks for the links.

 

I was hoping they were going to be a bit cheaper than that. As laughable as a 'budget' Warmaster seems, I was hoping to be a bit cheaper but it's still racking over 1000pts even with the cheapest options. The combat weapons seem OK. Not ridiculous, but OK. There isn't much that will survive a round of combat with an Iconoclast but I was still hoping for 'more'. I mean, it's 1000pts. I want ridiculous.

 

The Gatling Array sounds awesome though! A shame you can't put it on a Warmaster with Plasma Destructors.... or can you?

[1ncarnadine]

Yeah, I wanted the same kind of ridiculousness at close range. Total overkill within melee range with strong odds of being able to split fire the melee attacks and wipe two Titans from the board, while also being a more budget option compared to the base Warmaster.

Still, the Gatling is solid firepower with the shoulder mounts and gyros. Otherwise, I'm thinking the best arm configuration may actually be two Desolator Chainswords, so it would be really great if they offered the darn weapon sprue separately after all.

The Gatling on the base Warmaster would be an absolute no-brainer over the Revelator, to be fair. They would match the range on the Suzerains and give real void-stripping capacity at range, which is one of its major weaknesses. Then add in the new Void Shunts, Bastion Shielding, a VMB and a PBG (or two PBGs) in the shoulders along with the Suzerains... it would be incredibly difficult to deal with, though that clocks in around 1125 points so you would definitely pay for it. It might be better for balance that the Warmaster has to rely on some support or get just a little closer to really bring the Suzerains to bear. I'm not sure.

Edited November 3, 2021 by LetsYouDown

[Gattopardo]

Good info, thanks. Aren't gyros restricted to scale 10 or lower though? So I think you can't put them on the Warmaster? If any gun looks like it should have a corridor arc it's the Gatling on the Warmaster, too.

[Noserenda]

Yarr was hoping for a bit more range on the gun fist but it looks alright overall, i still think the go fast reactor is going to be essential though.

The Revelator is crap tbf so its no surprise the gatling is better :) 

[1ncarnadine]

Good info, thanks. Aren't gyros restricted to scale 10 or lower though? So I think you can't put them on the Warmaster? If any gun looks like it should have a corridor arc it's the Gatling on the Warmaster, too.

oh, you're right, scale 10 and under. Dang. Yeah, then that's unfortunate and pretty limiting for the Iconoclast, because the corridor arc is a pain when you're being out-activated.

[Lord_Borak]

Yeah, I wanted the same kind of ridiculousness at close range. Total overkill within melee range with strong odds of being able to split fire the melee attacks and wipe two Titans from the board, while also being a more budget option compared to the base Warmaster.

 

Still, the Gatling is solid firepower with the shoulder mounts and gyros. Otherwise, I'm thinking the best arm configuration may actually be two Desolator Chainswords, so it would be really great if they offered the darn weapon sprue separately after all.

 

The Gatling on the base Warmaster would be an absolute no-brainer over the Revelator, to be fair. They would match the range on the Suzerains and give real void-stripping capacity at range, which is one of its major weaknesses. Then add in the new Void Shunts, Bastion Shielding, a VMB and a PBG (or two PBGs) in the shoulders along with the Suzerains... it would be incredibly difficult to deal with, though that clocks in around 1125 points so you would definitely pay for it. It might be better for balance that the Warmaster has to rely on some support or get just a little closer to really bring the Suzerains to bear. I'm not sure.

 

 

I dunno. Str10 isn't THAT scary. You wont be smashing many Criticals on an opponent. Especially when you're only hitting on 4's in combat. It's a tough one to be honest. The Drill has 1 less attack but gets +1 (more than the sword) to hit and 3 extra strength (and fusion for the lolz). I think you'd be better off with one of each. One for wreck armour and the chainsword to finish them off.

 

I kinda like the idea of two Grav imploders......... because, because I do. I have no rational reason other than I do.

Edited November 3, 2021 by Lord_Borak

[1ncarnadine]

Ah, sorry, I'll clarify my thinking a little more. As Vulpa, I'd be getting +2S from Disruption Emitters, and I think I'd be inclined to make it a Corrupt Titan with Overwhelming Rage for +1 dice on everything with the melee trait and auto-passing Charge orders, for a total of 45 points of upgrades (unless they've also changed the cost of Disruption Emitters, but they seem fair where they're at, so I doubt it).

Also, as long as you're attacking with the Chainswords between 2-4", you're hitting with BS, not WS. So it's a 2+ to-hit at that range while you also leave an opponent facing Warmaster-class void shields. For Vulpa, because of a weird interaction with Honour & Blood, it's actually 3+ to-hit under 3", so there's a 3-4" sweet spot where you'd get 2+... and it remains 3+ under 2" even swapping to WS, again thanks to +1 from the chainswords and +1 from Honour & Blood. Any which way, that's 10 attacks at S12 with Rending. Within 1", an opponent will also end up in range for a S15 Smash for D3+1 attacks, hitting on 4+.

Might not be a bad idea to throw on Plasma Gargoyles for once, too. But it's probably best not to get too crazy with upgrades or additional mutations and keep it under 1100. That's already a huge investment in a melee Titan.

Edited November 3, 2021 by LetsYouDown

[Lord_Borak]

Well.......... That's just unfriendly and very much frightening.   I hadn't thought about hitting at BS between 2-4". It seems....... odd. But very much correct. 

 

Is it confirmed that you cannot swap weapons between the Warmasters? An FAQ or somewhere?

Edited November 3, 2021 by Lord_Borak