Black Templar Heavy Intercessors question - new BT player

[Spectral Bob]

So, I am (going to be) a new Black Templars player. I am currently painting up a small force to supplement whatever force is released along with the new codex in November.

 

Currently, I am painting up some Heavy Intercessors and came upon a dilemma; would a BT Heavy Intercessor squad be led by a Sword Bretheren? I know it's difficult to say until the codex comes out, but basically I want to know if I should paint one model with the red cross on black field w/ red trim or not.

 

 

Thanks in advance for any input.

 

 

Bob

 

 

Edited to correct codex release date per road map.

Edited August 18, 2021 by Spectral Bob

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Wait until the rules drop.

[Medjugorje]

In the old lore there it is a sword brother. But sometimes there are seargents too... There are Terminator Sword brethren seargents. Sometimes Veteranseargents exist ( God of Mars Trio ).

[Marshal Reinhard]

I believe it's been the case since 6th edition that you could optionally upgrade your squad leader to a sword brethren, which came with certain perks. It was essentially to match other chapters being able to upgrade their sergeant to veteran sergeant and getting the same benefits. It'd also mean they had 'terminator honours' in older fluff.

 

That said, it wasn't neccessarily the case that all our squads were lead by sword brethren... and painting them in that way pretty much suggests they have a veteran statline. I've seen some who paint all their 'sergeants' in swordbrethren colours, including in 3 man squads of Aggressors or Inceptors, or even things like Centurions.

 

I'd say its pretty much up to you. In my own case I'd avoid it, as it does suggest some practical difference.

[Sword Brother Adelard]

It's always up to you, as the Black Templar colour schemes are incredibly fluid. But in my army, if they have a different stat line, my preference is to paint them as a Sword Brother. Then, in Sword Brothren squads, I bling up the squad leader some more to show that they are the squad Sergeant. 

It's been confused a lot over the years, but where non-veteran squads do not have Sergeants. All Veteran Squads can be led by Sergeants, the most famous Black Templar Sergeant being Sergeant Bastilan in Helsreach, who was the Sergeant in Grimaldus' command squad.

 

In practical terms, it's actually really useful to have your veterans and your squad leaders painted as if they are part of one cohort, just the other day, I swapped a Vanguard Veteran I had modelled with a power sword and pistol into a crusader squad. (He has a magged backpack)

[Spectral Bob]

Thanks for the feedback. Think I will go with the white with black trim for now, then see what the codex says.

 

 

Bob

[Medjugorje]

In old lore there was no leader.

 

As we were degraded into codex Space Marines we had leader in each squad so that it was necessary to change the lore. Sinse this time all squads were lead by a sword brethren. This "seargents" in all squads are just called seargents because it was not a BT codex but a space marine codex where Captain equivalents like Shadowcaptains and Marshals and Khans were called Captain in the DataSheet. So it is with the sword brethren. So normally each squad is lead by a sword brethren - there are just a few exceptions by command squads ( like Bastilian and Sword Brethren Terminator command squads in old codex ) and in some other books like god of mars which I think is the reason -> GW was not sure how to treat the Templars. 

 

Maybe we see an explanation in the new book - could be on point but i think GW will do it as they ever did. They will say BT are not a codex chapter and so their command structure depends on each crusade as our colorscheme is. And for this I dont have any problems with.

 

What I really want to know is ( and i am very confident that it will be the first option ) are Intercessor Assault squads with a black or red shoulder pad trim

Edited August 17, 2021 by Medjugorje

[Marshal Reinhard]

In old lore there was no leader.

 

Sinse this time all squads were lead by a sword brethren. 

Not true. Having a sword brother leader was an option. 

 

As per the 6th edition codex, the base composition was 5 initiates for a crusader squad. Then you may upgrade one initiate one initiate into a sword brother. Sword brother is a Veteran sergeant upgrade equivalent, one you'd often take it, as it let you have another power weapon. 

 

But it wasn't a mandatory pick, you could have a sword brother less squad, like we'd always had (since 4th edition codex anyway). Which is pertient to the original question of: should he paint all his 'sergeants' as sword brethren? I think not.

Edited August 17, 2021 by Reinhard

[Sword Brother Adelard]

The trim will be black. Because there is no such thing as a Black Templar Assault Intercessor Squad. They will just be Crusaders.

Edited August 17, 2021 by Brother Adelard

[Medjugorje]

 

In old lore there was no leader.

 

Sinse this time all squads were lead by a sword brethren. 

Not true. Having a sword brother leader was an option. 

 

As per the 6th edition codex, the base composition was 5 initiates for a crusader squad. Then you may upgrade one initiate one initiate into a sword brother. Sword brother is a Veteran sergeant upgrade equivalent, one you'd often take it, as it let you have another power weapon. 

 

But it wasn't a mandatory pick, you could have a sword brother less squad, like we'd always had (since 4th edition codex anyway). Which is pertient to the original question of: should he paint all his 'sergeants' as sword brethren? I think not.

 

you are correct. Since 8th edition there we had to take a squad leader. 

[General Strike]

 

 

 

 

In old lore there was no leader.

 

Sinse this time all squads were lead by a sword brethren.

Not true. Having a sword brother leader was an option.

 

As per the 6th edition codex, the base composition was 5 initiates for a crusader squad. Then you may upgrade one initiate one initiate into a sword brother. Sword brother is a Veteran sergeant upgrade equivalent, one you'd often take it, as it let you have another power weapon.

 

But it wasn't a mandatory pick, you could have a sword brother less squad, like we'd always had (since 4th edition codex anyway). Which is pertient to the original question of: should he paint all his 'sergeants' as sword brethren? I think not.

you are correct. Since 8th edition there we had to take a squad leader.

I do miss those little things, like having your sergeants in Terminator Armor for a Iron Hands army.

[Marshal Reinhard]

 

 

In old lore there was no leader.

 

Sinse this time all squads were lead by a sword brethren. 

Not true. Having a sword brother leader was an option. 

 

As per the 6th edition codex, the base composition was 5 initiates for a crusader squad. Then you may upgrade one initiate one initiate into a sword brother. Sword brother is a Veteran sergeant upgrade equivalent, one you'd often take it, as it let you have another power weapon. 

 

But it wasn't a mandatory pick, you could have a sword brother less squad, like we'd always had (since 4th edition codex anyway). Which is pertient to the original question of: should he paint all his 'sergeants' as sword brethren? I think not.

 

you are correct. Since 8th edition there we had to take a squad leader. 

 

Must admit I missed that. That's from Faith and Fury? I was so offended by that book I never got it. As of first version of the 8th edition SM codex (and the index army book before then) the base composition of the crusader squad was still 5 initiates. But a google search of Faith & Fury Crusader squad, shows a snap shot with 4 initiates and 1 sword brother. Fancy that

[Closet Skeleton]

In old lore there was no leader.

 

Literally the old lore:

 

 

Whether such Companies are formed or not, individual squads and specialists (such as Techmarines and Apothecaries) are gathered and dispersed in a fairly ad-hoc fashion, and warriors will fight together out of familiarity and comradship rather than any imposed organisation. Unlike other Chapters, most of these squads will have no veteran sergeants, those warriors who excel in battle having been honoured with elevation into the Marshal's Sword Brethren.

 

What this does not say:

 

Black Templar squads have no sergeants.

 

No Black Templar squad has an elite sergeant.

 

That Sword Brethren are anything other than a formation in their own right and will split off to lead squads.

 

It also doesn't quite make sense since most codex company details that list veteran sergeants have 3-4 which would be 'less than most' and not create any real distinction between codex chapters and the BT.

 

However the idea of a squad leader in what would later be defined as Sword Brethren colours goes back to the 3rd edition box art so if that's the BT you want then you can happily treat the 4th ed codex as an abberation.