Massively Confused about Acts of Faith

[9x19 Parabellum]

I started building my Sisters army last year around August.  Needless to say, due to the Pandemic, I haven't been able to play many games.  In fact I think I've played about 3 or 4 games with my SoB in total. (it seems like more than that because I've been furiously painting and have over 2k ready to go).

 

The first game I played was with the "Old" codex.  The person I was playing was more knowledgeable than me on 40k and informed me I could only spend a max of 1 miracle die per phase.  1 max in total. Period.  That is how I have played it for all +3 other games that I have been able to play.

 

Now I'm currently watching a batrep from Table Top Titans (SoB vs. DG).   At the 47:21 time mark ( https://youtu.be/AgADmAqTjm8?t=2841 )  Brian asks Adrian how many miracle dice he can use per phase and Adrian replies "unlimited per phase, it's just per unit"

 

Now that batrep was from April using the old codex (which I don't have with me at the moment), but I do have the current Codex, and the rules read as follows:

 

"Once per phase, one unit from your Army with this ability can perform one Act of Faith."

 

I can see this being interpreted either way:

 

"A maximum of one unit from your army, in any given phase, can perform one Act of Faith."

 

OR

 

"Each unit from your army, up to a maximum of once per phase, can perform a maximum of one Act of Faith."

 

Soooo....which one is right?

________________________________

 

For what it's worth, it also seemed obvious to me that no matter how many times you trigger "Vengance" and/or "Sacrifice" you still get a max of 1 miracle die at the end of that phase.  But I recall seeing batreps where people claim 2 miracle dice for fulfilling both of these conditions.

 

INCORRECT:  "I killed your T'au Breachers with my Retributors in shooting phase, but lost my Palatine when she overcharged her plasma pistol, therefore I get 2 miracle dice in the shooting phase."

 

CORRECT: "I killed all 9 of your Greater Daemons in close combat, and lost Celestine, Morvenn Vahl, my Canoness, 2 Dialogus, and 3 Imagifiers: I get one miracle die for the close combat phase."

Edited August 18, 2021 by 9x19 Parabellum

[9x19 Parabellum]

UPDATE:

 

Ok it would seem we can disregard this question. Several minutes later in the batrep, they seem to arrive at the conclusion, along with their real-time chat viewers, that AoF can only be used once per turn.

 

Admins: up to you, might want to leave this question up for newbies and such.

[Dominoris]

One per phase.  Yes.

 

Note you can also use stratgems that spend Miracle Dice (like Moment of Grace for example) in the same phase that you used an Act of Faith. 

[Bonzi]

As a side note, this is a restriction a Simulacrum is intended to overcome. Unit A uses a miracle dice in the shooting phase, unit B can use a dice in the same phase as well, but only if they have a Simulacrum.

[Slasher956]

Some times you need to read other sections to help understand a rule.

In this case the simulrcum, the stragems & 2ndry objectives (how can you compete the 2ndry that say do 3 AoF in a turn if its 1 per turn?)

[Brother Chaplain Tyranus]

I'm in the process of building a "miracle dice list" which could hopefully help me net some points off the secondary that scores when you use miracle dice.  They did not make it easy to do though.

 

It's also once per phase.  So this is the stupid part.  If I want to maximize on scoring points, I need to wait till my opponents turn.  If my opponent does charge me, you have literally 2 phases to be able to use miracle dice, or only 2 dice (shooting and morale).  So having simulacrums would be necessary at that point

[9x19 Parabellum]

I'm confused by the last 2 posters.

 

Accepting that the AoF constraint is 1x per phase...

 

There are 10 "turns" in a game, for which you can score a max of 12 points.

 

5 of those turns enable you to score upto 3 points.

5 of those turns enable you to score upto 2 points.

 

Of the 5 "3 point turns" (ie, opponent's turns), there are 7 phases (Command, Movement, Psychic, Shooting, Charge, Fight, Morale), of which you have a realistic chance to perform an AoF in 4 of them: Shooting, Charge, Fight and Morale Phases.  (specifically: saving throws in their shooting phase ; hit/wound/damage roll in their charge phase (overwatch) ; hit/wound/saving throw/damage rolls in the fight phase ; morale test in the morale phase.

 

of the 5 "2 point turns" (ie, your turns), there are also 7 phases (Command, Movement, Psychic, Shooting, Charge, Fight, Morale) of which you have a realistic chance to perform an AoF in 5 of them: Movement, Shooting, Charge, Fight, and Morale Phases.

 

Assuming you had the Miracle Dice available, is it realistic that you could do 3 AoF in at least 2 opponent's turns (6 vp?) I think so.  Is it realistic you could do 3 AoF in at least 3 of your own turns (also 6 vp?) Definitely so.

 

Thus, my point here is that the limiting factor is not really the per phase constraints on AoF, but rather the limiting pool of Miracle dice.  If you can get a big engine going for MD generation, you should be able to complete this Secondary.

 

The best way I can see that happening is a Sacred Rose list that includes at least some of the following: Battle Sanctum, a couple throw away MSU repentia units, Triumph of St. Kath, Beacon of Faith WT, a throw-away character for the "Martyred" stratagem.

[Blurf]

I'm confused by the last 2 posters.

 

Accepting that the AoF constraint is 1x per phase...

 

There are 10 "turns" in a game, for which you can score a max of 12 points.

 

5 of those turns enable you to score upto 3 points.

5 of those turns enable you to score upto 2 points.

 

Of the 5 "3 point turns" (ie, opponent's turns), there are 7 phases (Command, Movement, Psychic, Shooting, Charge, Fight, Morale), of which you have a realistic chance to perform an AoF in 4 of them: Shooting, Charge, Fight and Morale Phases.  (specifically: saving throws in their shooting phase ; hit/wound/damage roll in their charge phase (overwatch) ; hit/wound/saving throw/damage rolls in the fight phase ; morale test in the morale phase.

 

of the 5 "2 point turns" (ie, your turns), there are also 7 phases (Command, Movement, Psychic, Shooting, Charge, Fight, Morale) of which you have a realistic chance to perform an AoF in 5 of them: Movement, Shooting, Charge, Fight, and Morale Phases.

 

Assuming you had the Miracle Dice available, is it realistic that you could do 3 AoF in at least 2 opponent's turns (6 vp?) I think so.  Is it realistic you could do 3 AoF in at least 3 of your own turns (also 6 vp?) Definitely so.

 

Thus, my point here is that the limiting factor is not really the per phase constraints on AoF, but rather the limiting pool of Miracle dice.  If you can get a big engine going for MD generation, you should be able to complete this Secondary.

 

The best way I can see that happening is a Sacred Rose list that includes at least some of the following: Battle Sanctum, a couple throw away MSU repentia units, Triumph of St. Kath, Beacon of Faith WT, a throw-away character for the "Martyred" stratagem.

You're kind of glossing over how much it sucks to use miracle dice like this. Guaranteeing 15 victory points through abusing this particular secondary is very powerful, but you're expensing quite a lot of your resources, both in list building and in your on table miracle dice, in doing so. Building to spam MD and blowing your dice on battle sister saves and advance rolls may well end up costing you more than that in terms of primary or other secondaries.

 

If, for example, you give up Morvenn for The Triumph and a Battle Sanctum, there is a very good chance there will come a point in the game where morvenn could have used her amazing melee abilities to kill an opponent off an objective. Depending on the situation this could easily be a 15 point swing right there (Control 3 Control more is an example of this +10 to you -5 to your opponent.)

 

Everything has a cost associated to it. Make sure it's more than what you'd be giving up elsewhere before you pay it.

[Montford]

I'm confused by the last 2 posters.

 

Accepting that the AoF constraint is 1x per phase...

 

There are 10 "turns" in a game, for which you can score a max of 12 points.

 

5 of those turns enable you to score upto 3 points.

5 of those turns enable you to score upto 2 points.

 

Of the 5 "3 point turns" (ie, opponent's turns), there are 7 phases (Command, Movement, Psychic, Shooting, Charge, Fight, Morale), of which you have a realistic chance to perform an AoF in 4 of them: Shooting, Charge, Fight and Morale Phases.  (specifically: saving throws in their shooting phase ; hit/wound/damage roll in their charge phase (overwatch) ; hit/wound/saving throw/damage rolls in the fight phase ; morale test in the morale phase.

 

of the 5 "2 point turns" (ie, your turns), there are also 7 phases (Command, Movement, Psychic, Shooting, Charge, Fight, Morale) of which you have a realistic chance to perform an AoF in 5 of them: Movement, Shooting, Charge, Fight, and Morale Phases.

 

Assuming you had the Miracle Dice available, is it realistic that you could do 3 AoF in at least 2 opponent's turns (6 vp?) I think so.  Is it realistic you could do 3 AoF in at least 3 of your own turns (also 6 vp?) Definitely so.

 

Thus, my point here is that the limiting factor is not really the per phase constraints on AoF, but rather the limiting pool of Miracle dice.  If you can get a big engine going for MD generation, you should be able to complete this Secondary.

 

The best way I can see that happening is a Sacred Rose list that includes at least some of the following: Battle Sanctum, a couple throw away MSU repentia units, Triumph of St. Kath, Beacon of Faith WT, a throw-away character for the "Martyred" stratagem.

I play Sacred Rose and it isn't difficult to use the Miracle Dice as long you generate the Miracle Dice needed, and I don't take any sacrificial units. I have yet to take either the Triumph or the Battle Sanctum using the new rules.

 

I have been taking the Order WT on my Canoness and Beacon of Faith on a Palatine (and give her Emperor's Wrath so that she has something to use that Miracle Die on as there is always a target somewhere within 18 inches!). The Order WT means any one MD that my Canoness uses each Turn is considered to be a 6 regardless of what it actually is, and when the Palatine uses her MD if I roll a 4 then a new MD is placed into the MD pool. The Canoness helps me use even low value Miracle Dice and get a chance to regenerate them into a higher value, and the Palatine can even use a 2 for a to-hit roll with Dirty Harry's Bolt Pistol. If the Palatine has a 1 for an MD then I just have her use it for a to-hit roll. It misses but at least it gives me a chance to get another die in my MD pool.

 

As an example of using 3 MDs in my opponents turn even without a melee happening: in my opponents Shooting Phase I can use a Miracle Die for a saving throw on one unit, and then a miracle die on a saving throw in the same phase for another Unit which has a Simulacrum Imperialis. If I use another for a Morale test at the end of the Turn then I have used 3 miracle dice in my opponents turn and score 3 points.

[Montford]

Something that happened in a game the other week can demonstrate how Sacred Rose can get the Miracle Dice secondary without sacrificial units:

 

Palatine used a '2' MD on a shooting to-hit roll. I roll a 4 and get a MD which is a 3.

 

My Multi melta Retributor squad has a Simulacrum and uses that '3' MD on a to-wound roll. I roll another 4 and get a MD which is a 5.

 

My Heavy Bolter Retributor Squad has a Simulacrum and uses that '5' MD on a to-wound roll. I roll a 3 and do not get a MD.

 

I have now used 3 MD in my own Shooting Phase and it cost me a net of 1 MD mostly because I take Simulacrums. Now I do need to roll a 4+ to gain an MD once I use one but a 50-50 shot isn't bad in 40K, and there's still the MD I would have gotten at the start of the  Battle Round, plus a MD if I destroyed an enemy unit in any phase (and with the right Hymn you could pull that off in the Command Phase ).