jpwyrm Posted August 19, 2021 Share Posted August 19, 2021 Well it's been a while now since we could say something like that! Props to mister Charlie Kang for not only finishing 3rd in a world of Drukhari and Admech nonsense, but also for doing it with stapple units of our Chapter! Of course Vanguard Vets are good no matter what icon is displayed on your left shoulder pads, but they are largely associated with Raven Guard. He also made use of Eliminators and the iconic Master Marksman+Korvidarii bolts phobos captain (well, Chapter Master in his case) to hunt down key characters. Though I am weary of seeing multiple Contemptor Dreadnought with Volkites and Redemptors, it's still nice to know that we are still relevant in the meta. I hope his success jumpstart our collective tactical mind and bring back the Sons of Corax into... well not into the light, but closer to it at least Here's the list that was used at the event : ++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Imperium - Adeptus Astartes - Raven Guard) [102 PL, 9CP, 2,000pts] ++ + Configuration + **Chapter Selector**: Custom Chapter, Master Artisans, Raven Guard Successor, Whirlwind of Rage Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points) Detachment Command Cost + HQ + Chapter Master in Phobos Armour [7 PL, 135pts]: 6. Master Marksman, Chapter Command: Chapter Master, Korvidari Bolts, Warlord Techmarine [5 PL, -1CP, 90pts]: Boltgun, Chapter Command: Master of the Forge, Master of Ambush, Omnissian power axe, Servo-arm, Stratagem: Hero of the Chapter + Troops + Incursor Squad [5 PL, 105pts] . 4x Incursor: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Occulus bolt carbine, 4x Paired combat blades . Incursor Sergeant Intercessor Squad [5 PL, 100pts]: Auto Bolt Rifle . 4x Intercessor: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades . Intercessor Sergeant: Astartes Chainsword Intercessor Squad [5 PL, 100pts]: Auto Bolt Rifle . 4x Intercessor: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades . Intercessor Sergeant: Astartes Chainsword + Elites + Redemptor Dreadnought [9 PL, 185pts]: 2x Storm Bolters, Icarus Rocket Pod, Macro Plasma Incinerator, Onslaught Gatling Cannon Redemptor Dreadnought [9 PL, 180pts]: 2x Storm Bolters, Macro Plasma Incinerator, Onslaught Gatling Cannon Relic Contemptor Dreadnought [8 PL, -1CP, 150pts]: 2x Twin volkite culverin Relic Contemptor Dreadnought [8 PL, -1CP, 150pts]: 2x Twin volkite culverin Vanguard Veteran Squad [14 PL, 300pts]: Jump Pack . Vanguard Veteran: Lightning Claw, Storm shield . Vanguard Veteran: Lightning Claw, Storm shield . Vanguard Veteran: Lightning Claw, Storm shield . Vanguard Veteran: Lightning Claw, Storm shield . Vanguard Veteran: Lightning Claw, Storm shield . Vanguard Veteran: Lightning Claw, Storm shield . Vanguard Veteran: Lightning Claw, Storm shield . Vanguard Veteran: Lightning Claw, Storm shield . Vanguard Veteran: Lightning Claw, Storm shield . Vanguard Veteran Sergeant: Lightning Claw, Storm shield Vanguard Veteran Squad [14 PL, 300pts]: Jump Pack . Vanguard Veteran: Lightning Claw, Storm shield . Vanguard Veteran: Lightning Claw, Storm shield . Vanguard Veteran: Lightning Claw, Storm shield . Vanguard Veteran: Lightning Claw, Storm shield . Vanguard Veteran: Lightning Claw, Storm shield . Vanguard Veteran: Lightning Claw, Storm shield . Vanguard Veteran: Lightning Claw, Storm shield . Vanguard Veteran: Lightning Claw, Storm shield . Vanguard Veteran: Lightning Claw, Storm shield . Vanguard Veteran Sergeant: Lightning Claw, Storm shield + Heavy Support + Eliminator Squad [5 PL, 75pts]: Bolt sniper rifle . Eliminator Sergeant: Instigator Bolt Carbine . 2x Eliminators: 2x Bolt pistol, 2x Camo cloak, 2x Frag & Krak grenades Eliminator Squad [5 PL, 75pts]: Bolt sniper rifle . Eliminator Sergeant: Instigator Bolt Carbine . 2x Eliminators: 2x Bolt pistol, 2x Camo cloak, 2x Frag & Krak grenades + Dedicated Transport + Land Speeder Storm [3 PL, 55pts] ++ Total: [102 PL, 9CP, 2,000pts] ++ Dracos 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371357-raven-guard-successors-places-top-3-in-a-gt/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claws and Effect Posted August 19, 2021 Share Posted August 19, 2021 The trend of a single lightning claw and storm shield bugs me. Yeah, it's the most efficient combo you can run, but it looks stupid when you model it. Twin claws or no claws for me. Dracos, ShibeKing, Jacques Corbin and 5 others 8 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371357-raven-guard-successors-places-top-3-in-a-gt/#findComment-5732695 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpwyrm Posted August 19, 2021 Author Share Posted August 19, 2021 Yeah, I get what you mean. I love twin claws too, but there is no denying the effectiveness of the LC/SS combo. With that many Vanguard though, I wonder if a mix of twin-claws, storm shield + something else and a Thunder hammer or two would be as effective but more pleasing to the eye... Something like : 4 x Vanguard Vets with SS and chainsword 4 x Vanguard Vets with twin Lightning claws 2 x Vanguard Vet with SS and Thunder Hammer 290 pts instead of the clean 300. XeonDragon and Helias_Tancred 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371357-raven-guard-successors-places-top-3-in-a-gt/#findComment-5732701 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dracos Posted August 19, 2021 Share Posted August 19, 2021 I'm for anything that makes Marines relevant but yeah VV w/LC/SS and Relic Contemptor Dreadnought is freaking b o r i n g. Nice to see the Eliminators in a list. XeonDragon and Helias_Tancred 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371357-raven-guard-successors-places-top-3-in-a-gt/#findComment-5732790 Share on other sites More sharing options...
duz_ Posted August 24, 2021 Share Posted August 24, 2021 Did I miss it which event was this? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371357-raven-guard-successors-places-top-3-in-a-gt/#findComment-5734521 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpwyrm Posted August 24, 2021 Author Share Posted August 24, 2021 It was at the Auckland GT. Can be found here Downunder Pairing XeonDragon 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371357-raven-guard-successors-places-top-3-in-a-gt/#findComment-5734549 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacques Corbin Posted September 4, 2021 Share Posted September 4, 2021 So, what was the Land Speeder Storm in there for? Also, is Plasma and Onslaught the best build for the Redemptor? I do not have one yet. Also, nice not to see he was trying to just use MoA to push Aggressors or Centurions or Obliterators in his opponent's face. Finally, are the Instigator Carbines worth taking over a third Bolt Sniper Rifle? Pains me to say, I stil have not gotten in many 9th edition games, and collecting Primaris has been a slow process. But, alas, that is where the marine range is going. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371357-raven-guard-successors-places-top-3-in-a-gt/#findComment-5738174 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokugawa Posted September 5, 2021 Share Posted September 5, 2021 (edited) The single land speeder is for scoring EOAF, i think. Also，iirc all the recorded RG top4 records in 9th GTs picked successor chapter tactics. And they all had Whirlwind+something. Edited September 5, 2021 by Tokugawa XeonDragon and Karhedron 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371357-raven-guard-successors-places-top-3-in-a-gt/#findComment-5738312 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted September 5, 2021 Share Posted September 5, 2021 Also, is Plasma and Onslaught the best build for the Redemptor? I do not have one yet. It rather depends on what you facing. With lots of DE skimmers, Skitarii blobs and T5 Orks coming, I think that 12 S6 shots from the HOGC is actually pretty strong and relevant in the meta. Plasma is very good for killing elite infantry and can make a decent backup source of anti-tank since it is S9 3 Damage when overcharged. Ultimately it depends what else you have in your list. I decided to magnetise mine so I can swap. Both options feel pretty viable but obviously perform better against different targets. XeonDragon 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371357-raven-guard-successors-places-top-3-in-a-gt/#findComment-5738402 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dracos Posted September 5, 2021 Share Posted September 5, 2021 Personal experience and (lots of) research says go with all three Sniper Rifles The Redemptor is commonly upgraded to the Plasma in competitive builds. I’m a cheapskate on point upgrades and I’d do it if I used anything besides infantry. Obliterators? What’s up there Jacques ;) It’s a tad expensive for my taste but I see where the Storm Landspeeders are part of the battlefield control gameplan. XeonDragon, Jaipii and jpwyrm 3 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371357-raven-guard-successors-places-top-3-in-a-gt/#findComment-5738556 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaipii Posted September 6, 2021 Share Posted September 6, 2021 I think the Instigator Bolt Carbine is chosen on the Eliminator sergeant purely because it gives the unit double movement (6+d6" in the movement phase AND 6+d6" after finishing the shooting phase). So 12+2d6" of movement when you really need it to score victory points. That's really fun idea XeonDragon and Charlo 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371357-raven-guard-successors-places-top-3-in-a-gt/#findComment-5738735 Share on other sites More sharing options...
XeonDragon Posted September 7, 2021 Share Posted September 7, 2021 Yeah, I'm considering going to a battalion + patrol just to be able to take 3 units of eliminators with carbines (instead of the normal 1 or 2 units I take) just for the movement shenanigans for secondaries. I think the Instigator Bolt Carbine is chosen on the Eliminator sergeant purely because it gives the unit double movement (6+d6" in the movement phase AND 6+d6" after finishing the shooting phase). So 12+2d6" of movement when you really need it to score victory points. That's really fun idea Dracos and Jaipii 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371357-raven-guard-successors-places-top-3-in-a-gt/#findComment-5739059 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dracos Posted September 7, 2021 Share Posted September 7, 2021 I know it’s not the same thing, but I like using the Guerrilla Tactics for similar reasons. If my opponent isn’t protecting his board edges I’ll pop the Eliminators in Reserve round one and bring them in round two to get a good angle on a character. It’s worth the 1 CP to me. That’s assuming I’m not using Lord of Deceit in a like fashion. XeonDragon 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371357-raven-guard-successors-places-top-3-in-a-gt/#findComment-5739215 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandragola Posted September 14, 2021 Share Posted September 14, 2021 I think the Instigator Bolt Carbine is chosen on the Eliminator sergeant purely because it gives the unit double movement (6+d6" in the movement phase AND 6+d6" after finishing the shooting phase). So 12+2d6" of movement when you really need it to score victory points. That's really fun idea This seems to be the answer. Eliminator squads are actually great screening and action monkey units - and even more so if they run away when you try to charge them. I was vaguely considering making vanguard vets out of the heresy lightning claw guys with van saar shields. It would look decent but cost a silly amount. I guess I might win a titan though. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371357-raven-guard-successors-places-top-3-in-a-gt/#findComment-5741451 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaipii Posted September 14, 2021 Share Posted September 14, 2021 This seems to be the answer. Eliminator squads are actually great screening and action monkey units - and even more so if they run away when you try to charge them. Unfortunately they lost that special rule of running away from charges (which would also have been nice in this edition) and got replaced with that extra "movement phase" after finishing their shooting phase. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371357-raven-guard-successors-places-top-3-in-a-gt/#findComment-5741523 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpwyrm Posted September 15, 2021 Author Share Posted September 15, 2021 Yeah, Eliminators are in a very good place right now and as a Raptor player I'm quite happy with that. My latest list idea involves three units of lasfusil and carbine Eliminators with 3 Suppressor squads, vanguards and bladeguard to take and hold objectives or counter charge, and a couple of Infiltrator squads along with supporting characters and a Whirlwind to reach and take advantage of Strike last stratagem. The list is nowhere near to being tested, but I think it has a decent potential for secondaries and denying the opponent his primaries and secondaries so... maybe it'll work. XeonDragon 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371357-raven-guard-successors-places-top-3-in-a-gt/#findComment-5741775 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpwyrm Posted October 14, 2021 Author Share Posted October 14, 2021 Two gentlemen from Sweden placed in the top half of the Fantasia Fanatic XL (78 players event) last weekend, one Raptor list (yeah!) , 27th place, and one Raven Guard, 32nd place. I can't find more intel on their respective games, but here are the lists to ponder on their tactics and overall Strategy. (Watchout for Battlescribe format) ++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Imperium - Adeptus Astartes - Raven Guard) [102 PL, 8CP, 2,000pts] ++ + Configuration [12CP] + **Chapter Selector**: Bolter Fusillades, Custom Chapter, Hungry for Battle, Raven Guard Successor Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points) [12CP] Detachment Command Cost Gametype: Matched + Stratagems [-3CP] + Relics of the Chapter [-2CP]: 2x Number of Extra Relics [-2CP] Token of Brotherhood [-1CP] + HQ [16 PL, -1CP, 315pts] + Chapter Master in Phobos Armour [7 PL, 135pts]: Bolt pistol, Camo cloak, Chapter Command: Chapter Master [2 PL, 40pts], Combat knife, Frag & Krak grenades, Master of the Codex, Master-crafted instigator bolt carbine, Oppressor's End, Warlord Librarian in Phobos Armour [5 PL, 100pts]: 2) Enveloping Darkness, 3) Spectral Blade, Artificer Armour, Bolt pistol, Camo cloak, Force sword, Frag & Krak grenades, Smite Lieutenants [4 PL, -1CP, 80pts]. Lieutenant in Phobos Armour [4 PL, -1CP, 80pts]: Bolt pistol, Frag & Krak grenades, Master of Ambush, Master-crafted occulus bolt carbine, Paired Combat Blades, Stratagem: Hero of the Chapter [-1CP], The Vox Espiritum + Troops [20 PL, 410pts] + Intercessor Squad [5 PL, 100pts]: Stalker Bolt Rifle. 4x Intercessor [80pts]: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades. Intercessor Sergeant [20pts]: Bolt pistol, Frag & Krak grenades Intercessor Squad [10 PL, 210pts]: Bolt rifle. 9x Intercessor [180pts]: 9x Bolt pistol, 9x Frag & Krak grenades. Intercessor Sergeant [30pts]: Bolt pistol, Frag & Krak grenades, Power fist [10pts] Intercessor Squad [5 PL, 100pts]: Stalker Bolt Rifle. 4x Intercessor [80pts]: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades. Intercessor Sergeant [20pts]: Bolt pistol, Frag & Krak grenades + Elites [48 PL, 930pts] + Aggressor Squad [12 PL, 225pts]: 4x Aggressor [160pts], Aggressor Sergeant [40pts]. Auto Boltstorm Gauntlets/Fragstorm Grenade Launcher [25pts]: 2x Auto Boltstorm Gauntlets, Fragstorm Grenade Launcher Bladeguard Veteran Squad [10 PL, 180pts]. 4x Bladeguard Veteran [140pts]: 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Heavy Bolt Pistol, 4x Master-crafted power sword, 4x Storm Shield. Bladeguard Veteran Sergeant [40pts]: Frag & Krak grenades, Master-crafted power sword, Neo-volkite pistol [5pts], Storm Shield Invictor Tactical Warsuit [8 PL, 160pts]: Fragstorm Grenade Launcher, Heavy bolter, Incendium cannon, Invictor fist, Twin ironhail heavy stubber Redemptor Dreadnought [9 PL, 180pts]: 2x Fragstorm Grenade Launchers, Heavy flamer, Icarus Rocket Pod [5pts], Macro Plasma Incinerator, Redemptor Fist Redemptor Dreadnought [9 PL, 185pts]: 2x Fragstorm Grenade Launchers, Icarus Rocket Pod [5pts], Macro Plasma Incinerator, Onslaught Gatling Cannon [5pts], Redemptor Fist + Fast Attack [13 PL, 270pts] + Invader ATV Squad [4 PL, 85pts]. Invader ATV [4 PL, 85pts]: Bolt pistol, Multi-melta [5pts], Twin auto bolt rifle Invader ATV Squad [4 PL, 85pts]. Invader ATV [4 PL, 85pts]: Bolt pistol, Multi-melta [5pts], Twin auto bolt rifle Suppressor Squad [5 PL, 100pts]. 2x Suppressor: 2x Accelerator autocannon, 2x Bolt pistol, 2x Frag & Krak grenades. Suppressor Sergeant: Accelerator autocannon, Bolt pistol, Frag & Krak grenades + Heavy Support [5 PL, 75pts] + Eliminator Squad [5 PL, 75pts]: Bolt sniper rifle. Eliminator Sergeant [25pts]: Bolt pistol, Bolt sniper rifle, Camo cloak, Frag & Krak grenades. 2x Eliminators [50pts]: 2x Bolt pistol, 2x Camo cloak, 2x Frag & Krak grenades ++ Total: [102 PL, 8CP, 2,000pts] ++ ++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Imperium - Adeptus Astartes - Raven Guard) [103 PL, 2,000pts, 8CP] ++ + Configuration + **Chapter Selector**: Raven Guard Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points) Detachment Command Cost + Stratagems + Favor of the Ravenspire [-1CP] Relics of the Chapter [-1CP]: Number of Extra Relics + HQ + Chaplain [7 PL, 130pts, -1CP]: 2. Catechism of Fire, 3. Exhortation of Rage, Boltgun, Chapter Command: Master of Sanctity, Jump Pack, Litany of Hate, Stratagem: Hero of the Chapter, The Armour Indomitus, Wise Orator Chapter Master [8 PL, 180pts, -1CP]: Angel Artifice, Chapter Command: Chapter Master, Jump Pack, Master of Ambush, Storm shield, Stratagem: Master of the Trifold Path, Swift and Deadly, Thunder hammer, Warlord + Troops + Infiltrator Squad [6 PL, 130pts]: Helix gauntlet. 4x Infiltrator: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Marksman bolt carbine. Infiltrator Sergeant Intercessor Squad [5 PL, 105pts]: Astartes Grenade Launcher, Bolt rifle. 4x Intercessor: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades. Intercessor Sergeant Intercessor Squad [5 PL, 100pts]: Bolt rifle. 4x Intercessor: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades. Intercessor Sergeant + Elites + Bladeguard Veteran Squad [5 PL, 105pts]. 2x Bladeguard Veteran: 2x Frag & Krak grenades, 2x Heavy Bolt Pistol, 2x Master-crafted power sword, 2x Storm Shield. Bladeguard Veteran Sergeant: Heavy Bolt Pistol Vanguard Veteran Squad [14 PL, 265pts]: Jump Pack. Vanguard Veteran: Astartes Chainsword, Storm shield. Vanguard Veteran: Astartes Chainsword, Storm shield. Vanguard Veteran: Astartes Chainsword, Storm shield. Vanguard Veteran: Astartes Chainsword, Storm shield. Vanguard Veteran: Astartes Chainsword, Lightning Claw. Vanguard Veteran: Astartes Chainsword, Lightning Claw. Vanguard Veteran: Astartes Chainsword, Lightning Claw. Vanguard Veteran: Astartes Chainsword, Lightning Claw. Vanguard Veteran: Astartes Chainsword, Lightning Claw. Vanguard Veteran Sergeant: Astartes Chainsword, Relic blade Vanguard Veteran Squad [14 PL, 265pts]: Jump Pack. Vanguard Veteran: Astartes Chainsword, Storm shield. Vanguard Veteran: Astartes Chainsword, Storm shield. Vanguard Veteran: Astartes Chainsword, Storm shield. Vanguard Veteran: Astartes Chainsword, Storm shield. Vanguard Veteran: Astartes Chainsword, Lightning Claw. Vanguard Veteran: Astartes Chainsword, Lightning Claw. Vanguard Veteran: Astartes Chainsword, Lightning Claw. Vanguard Veteran: Astartes Chainsword, Lightning Claw. Vanguard Veteran: Astartes Chainsword, Lightning Claw. Vanguard Veteran Sergeant: Astartes Chainsword, Relic blade + Fast Attack + Bike Squad [5 PL, 120pts]. Biker Sergeant: Combi-melta. Space Marine Biker w/Special Weapon: Meltagun. Space Marine Biker w/Special Weapon: Meltagun Inceptor Squad [14 PL, 160pts]: Assault bolter x2, 3x Inceptor, Inceptor Sergeant Outrider Squad [6 PL, 150pts]. 2x Outrider: 2x Astartes Chainsword, 2x Frag & Krak grenades, 2x Heavy Bolt Pistol, 2x Twin Bolt rifle. Outrider Sgt: Master-Crafted Weapon + Heavy Support + Eradicator Squad [7 PL, 145pts]: Melta rifle. Eradicator. Eradicator Sgt. Eradicator with MM: Multi-melta Eradicator Squad [7 PL, 145pts]: Melta rifle. Eradicator. Eradicator Sgt. Eradicator with MM: Multi-melta ++ Total: [103 PL, 8CP, 2,000pts] ++ XeonDragon 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371357-raven-guard-successors-places-top-3-in-a-gt/#findComment-5753698 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dracos Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 Can't say I find either of those list inspiring. Amusing that each have a piece of the current hotness but only one each. With all due respect to those who love them, I'll be pleased when the Elite and Heavy choices are brought in line with the VV and Demptors. I don't have but Gladiators could use something to add to their durability. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371357-raven-guard-successors-places-top-3-in-a-gt/#findComment-5754736 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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