Dark Angels 2K C&C

[Lukoi]

 

Went to an RTT in July, and played my first ever in person matches finally, going 0-3 on the day (I did have one game decided by only 5pts which I thought was a great success). Went RG Successor, and while it was a lot of fun, and I learned a lot, I found that the faction is just not capable of what I’m looking for currently – and probably (as much as I hate to admit it), doesn’t fit my play style.

 

So, after a lot of comparison, research, etc, I decided to try again – this time with Dark Angels. Went 1-2 and again lost a match by only around 5pts….honestly, felt like a great day of gaming and I made some progress. Felt organized, generally knew my rules well enough to function, and my opponents were all very cordial, fair minded guys, that cut me a little slack for being new.

 

That being said, the learning continued, and I’ve come upon a new iteration of my list that incorporates my previous lessons learned, and I’m looking for some feedback on it. Well, really, some final recommendations on adjustments to it, specifically relic/WLT etc as I’m generally sold on the bulk of the list.

 

· Azrael – Warlord with Brilliant Strategist that I’ll commonly apply to one of my RCD’s below (to keep it in Dev doctrine for the first three turns). His ability to give 4++ to some infantry is extremely welcome, and his CM Rerolls are fantastic. For the points, barring his pre-Primaris stature, he’s a great enabling piece for me.

 

· Talonmaster – with Arbiter’s Gaze, this thing just zings.

 

· Primaris Techmarine – Master of the Forge for flat 3 RCD heals

 

· 3 x 5 Intercessors – Auto bolters, and power fists.

 

· Deathwing Command Squad – 4 of them with twin LC. After being “kellomorphed,” in my first ever game, I decided that a body guard unit vice simple LOS was warranted, and it helps during my 2nd RTT, so I like these little aggressive bastards. They make up in a small way for the dropping of BGV from my previous iteration.

 

· Death Wing Knights – simply a tough, 1+, 4++, nasty melee unit to help with holding center for oath, or bullying up board, or potentially helping with stubborn defense. And a WS2, with RR1’s ain’t too shabby for scrapping, when the bulk of them are using S8 maces.

 

· 2 x Relic Contemptor Dreads – with Volkites

 

· 2 x 2 Servitors – pure action monkies for RTB, ROD. Nice and small footprint, and almost a waste for opponents to go after. Wanted to reduce how many points I’d previously committed to these tasks, as they are ultimately throw aways.

 

· 2 x MM Attack Bikes – solo bikes to run up, claim center for oath, or EOAF, and pop off MM shoots. Smaller footprint, easier to hide with terrain, they worked out great for me in the second RTT where I was much more diligent and savvy about hiding them up front. Jink, and some strategems made them more resilient that I expected.

 

· 1 x Land Speeder Tornado – surprisingly resilient with Jink+, this guy has decent firepower and serves as a great LOS escort for the Talonmaster.

 

· 2 x 3 eradicators – I ran a block of 5 in the previous two RTT’s and both times, the recurring feedback was to go smaller, and keep them off board if necessary to allow them to come in usually at half range. Since an eradicator squad starts at 7PL, you can add a servitor team to the same strategic reserve package in terms of CP cost, so….decent efficiency there.

 

Goal is to build a wide castle – not huddled together, but as far apart as one can manage while maintaining the needed synergies. CM RR on an RCD + Brilliant Strategist + WoA, and there’s quite a bit of firepower there. The techmarine adds Awaken the Machine spirit for +1HR (I typically would give the AMS, and WoA to the RCD that didn’t get chapter master RR, and Brilliant Strategist).

 

The RW contingent is its own ranging element initially, allowing me to shorten the play area with my main group as it trundles up the board with the DWK usually out front, Az and the DWC next with the intercessors ranging out as needed to secure an OBJ, and the Tech + Dreads forming the final part of the marching contingent, as they have the range. The RW are there to fly along a flank, with one bike often going up the gut for oath as an exchange piece if needed in turn one.

 

Eradicators + (plus servitors if needed for ROD) go into reserve. DWC can go into deepstrike if there’s no ignore-LOS options for the opponent, but ultimately without something to reduce their charges, it’s kind of a hollow threat.

 

On most maps, I’m looking to run Stubborn Defiance, Oaths, ROD/RTB, but willing to change that up if the enemy has an obvious skew list to take advantage of, or on the couple of maps with great secondary options built in.

 

My willingness to turn the board, means I might be conceding ROD, EOAF, or Behind enemy lines to an opponent, but those are hard to prevent to begin with. I just prefer to use less board, and try via Stubborn Defense/Oath to get the enemy to try and push into me, to make up for my overall lesser mobility. Basically, figure out a triangle of terrain with 3 OBJ, and defend it, shooting/killing the opponent off of things as able.

 

Obviously, I’m not great at scoring primary on turn 2, so have to be willing to play from behind somewhat on that front, but believe the DWK, and 4++ bubble from Az will help with that. Late game, I typically have the TM and Speeder left to run around with, so they go for last second grabs, and assassinate out of position characters on occasion.

 

List currently starts with 11CP (which is really 9 with the strategic reserves I’ll usually be paying for)

 

I’m painting the adjustments between lists up now (people weren’t kidding when they said your Army would grow naturally as you make changes, wow!), and really curious what folks think I should do differently.

 

I’m seriously considering Rites of War on the Techmarine with Vox Espiritum to give it a 9” aura….figure it might help the RCD’s, DWK become real options for that (takes me to 9 starting CP). Additionally, I could give RoW to the faster TM, but given my only 3 games with him thus far, it doesn’t seem that outside of himself and the land speeder….not alot of units would get a lot of use out of the WLT (takes me to 10 starting CP).

 

Was also considering the value of Storm of Fire (unmod WR6s increase AP by 1). Having volkites with an AP -1, on one, -2 on the other (with Brill strat) seems intriguing but even at 16 shots per dread, it doesnt seem like you would get all that many 6s to make it worth it.

 

Are there glaring issues I’m missing? Admittedly, once the two bikes get traded, that cuts me down to only 14 MM shots on the board for anti-tank, but still seems reasonably sufficient.

 

C&C please, and I’m willing to consider all options, but frankly I really enjoy the look and output of the Talonmaster, RCD’s, and DWK so do not want to lose them, and a body guard unit is a lock as well. I’ve got major scar tissue over getting “kellomorphed” lol.

[phandaal]

Always wondered, what does C&C stand for?

 

Have you considered swapping a unit or two of Incursors in for the Intercessors? It's nice to have some units that can set up outside of standard deployment zones.

[Vulshra]

Always wondered, what does C&C stand for?

 

Have you considered swapping a unit or two of Incursors in for the Intercessors? It's nice to have some units that can set up outside of standard deployment zones.

C&C means comments and criticism

 

Abstractly, I'd say focus more in on the theory of your case. That is, in your case, focus more on the castle, and pair down on extraneous items such as Tornado and potentially the attack bikes spend that on reinforcing  your castle. I'd say swapping out for another command squad for the Talonmaster and more deathwing, potentially even trying to make deathwing vanguard detachment may be worthwhile

[Lukoi]

Always wondered, what does C&C stand for?

 

Have you considered swapping a unit or two of Incursors in for the Intercessors? It's nice to have some units that can set up outside of standard deployment zones.

Hey appreciate the feedback, but honestly I think going with incursors plays away from the strengths of DA and this list in particular.

 

They would longer get Az's 4++ vs ranged, they would be fairly limited speed bumps for any enemy to overcome, and in my admitedly limited experience, fast armies would just by pass them.

 

In trying something similar with my RG Successoe list, both times I faced a fast army, the opponents just by passed them entirely to do what they wanted, and killed them in isolation after the fact.

 

I appreciate the thought though, just dont think it is a fit.

 

Always wondered, what does C&C stand for?

 

Have you considered swapping a unit or two of Incursors in for the Intercessors? It's nice to have some units that can set up outside of standard deployment zones.

 

C&C means comments and criticism

 

Abstractly, I'd say focus more in on the theory of your case. That is, in your case, focus more on the castle, and pair down on extraneous items such as Tornado and potentially the attack bikes spend that on reinforcing  your castle. I'd say swapping out for another command squad for the Talonmaster and more deathwing, potentially even trying to make deathwing vanguard detachment may be worthwhile

Thanks Vulshra, will take a look at it. I am trying to keep my lethality up, and while I tinker with the idea of dropping the TM, that sucker with his arbiters gaze is a strong option, that i am so far unable to find an alternative to.

[Vulshra]

Personally I'd keep the tm. It is super killy and contributes substantially to the castle with the re roll 1s to wound plus the ability to ignore cover

[Lukoi]

Ah ok. Previously you wrote to swap out the talonmaster. But yep, think I am going to keep him. Killingness and late game mobilty are helpful.

 

Played another game with this and other feedback and no my list looks like this...

 

Az

TM

Tech

 

5 x Heavy Ints with Executioners and a HB variant for backfield objective/stubbornn defiance.

2 x 5 Ints with PF

 

3 x company vets (would have left this DWC but was 3pts shy lol)

7 x DWK (hate blast but if anyone can weather the added hits it should be these guys)

2 x RCD

2 x Servitors just for ROD/RTB/screens

 

1 x MM Bike....throwaway to center while castle trundles up

3 x MM Bike

 

4 x Eradicators.

 

Starts with 11CP, and I use 2 to reserve Erads and both Servitors.

[phandaal]

 

Always wondered, what does C&C stand for?

 

Have you considered swapping a unit or two of Incursors in for the Intercessors? It's nice to have some units that can set up outside of standard deployment zones.

Hey appreciate the feedback, but honestly I think going with incursors plays away from the strengths of DA and this list in particular.

 

They would longer get Az's 4++ vs ranged, they would be fairly limited speed bumps for any enemy to overcome, and in my admitedly limited experience, fast armies would just by pass them.

 

In trying something similar with my RG Successoe list, both times I faced a fast army, the opponents just by passed them entirely to do what they wanted, and killed them in isolation after the fact.

 

I appreciate the thought though, just dont think it is a fit.

The idea is to get some more obsec board control outside of your castle early on - i.e. potential to take/contest objectives outside of your deployment zone while the castle makes their way wherever they want to go.

 

They actually do work surprisingly well with Dark Angels. +1 to hit when camping an objective combined with ignoring cover means they can park and shoot more accurately than normal Space Marines while they score for you.

 

If the goal is to keep as much as possible within Azrael's bubble though, then yeah they will not fit that goal.

[Lukoi]

I get what you are saying about getting out early but again, dont feel it fits DA strengths. Incursors arent about lethality so Grim Resolve is helpful but ultimately adding maybe a wound or so to any given engagement.

 

If there was a way outside of transhuman/smokescreen to really help with their durability, and a way make them stickier so they couldnt be bypassed, I would find them more compelling.

Edited August 29, 2021 by Lukoi

[phandaal]

Yeah, you've got to have a specific activity in mind for them. They do good work for me but it's going to depend very much on the list and playstyle.

 

How do you feel about your Heavy Intercessors? I've used them for Stubborn Defiance before but they feel hit or miss.

[Lukoi]

Ive only got one game with them. In the previous RTT I was hiding a set of assault intercessors augmented by intercessors but that seemed like too much investment.

 

With the current list only having 3 troop shots, I wanted something a smidge more durable (T5, extra wound), to give the opponent something to consider. If positioned properly, the stubborn defiance objective is essentially screened along alot of approaches, meaning the opponent has to really commit if they want to disrupt it.

 

I dont expect to get SD maxxed everytime, but if it forces the opponent to commit "too hard," I intend to leverage that to my advantage.

 

One game in, they worked well (had to use proxies as I am only now building them), but I need more reps to get a more accurate feel on this.

[phandaal]

They do tend to have that "magnet" effect on your opponent. Sort of "oh crap, whatever they're sitting on must be important - better go get them."

 

Also they hit that "rule of cool" pretty hard!

Edited August 29, 2021 by phandaal