40K Matched Play Events preparation

[Captain Idaho]

I'm thinking of going to the 40K Warhammer World Play Event on 25th September and as such I need to plan my campaign - plus generate some decent conversation on the forum!

 

This'll be my first event of 9th and I'm going for the spectacle and funnies. I like a theme and my favourite units, so that particular handicap is very acceptable to me. If I wanted to take a netlist to win the game without skill and just luck between netlist players, I'd play a different game!

 

Having said that, I like to have a fighting chance and winning is still important in a tournament, with a target of 2 games minimum to win my preference.

 

Here is my list:

 

++ Battalion Detachment ++

 

Ultramarines

 

+ No Force Organisation +

 

Eversor Assassin

 

+ HQ +

 

Captain in Terminator Armour [120pts]:

• Helm of Censure

• Storm shield

• The Imperium's Sword

• Thunder hammer

 

Chaplain in Terminator Armour [95pts]:

• Catechism of Fire

• Litany of Hate

• Storm bolter

 

+ Troops +

 

Tactical Squad ×5 [105pts]:

• Astartes Chainsword and Storm bolter

• Heavy bolter

 

Tactical Squad ×5 [105pts]:

• Astartes Chainsword and Storm bolter

• Heavy bolter

 

Tactical Squad ×5 [110pts]

• Combi-plasma

• Grav-cannon

 

+ Elites +

 

Ancient in Terminator Armour [100pts]:

• Standard of Macragge Inviolate

• Powerfist and Storm Bolter

 

Chapter Champion [75pts]:

• Blade of Triumph

• Champion's blade

 

Contemptor Dreadnought [150pts]:

• Multi-melta

 

Ironclad Dreadnought [145pts]:

• Dreadnought chainfist,

• Hurricane bolter

• Ironclad Assault Launchers

•Meltagun

 

Relic Terminator Squad ×10 [385pts]:

• 2x Grenade Harness

• 3 Power Fists

• 1 Chainfist

• 6 Lightning Claws

• 2× Reaper autocannon

• Mastercrafted Plasma Blaster

 

+ Fast Attack +

 

Attack Bike Squad ×2 [120pts]

• Multi-melta

• Multi-melta

 

+ Heavy Support +

 

Devastator Squad ×6 [153pts]:

• Armorium Cherub

• 4 Grav Cannons

 

+ Dedicated Transport +

 

Rhino [80pts]

 

Rhino [80pts]

 

++ Total: [9CP, 1,923pts] ++

I have 77pts left over and am toying with what to take. There is a worry about S9 being absent as we know there are mean old T8 still out there in the wild and I could find lots of vehicles a problem.

 

Apart from that, it has teeth and objective scoring, but can it deal with Drukhari or at least score points from objectives and Secondaries whilst under fire?

 

I think it can surprise Drukhari with the Terminators, as they can destroy a unit from shooting and charge a couple on the drop, quite reliably too.

 

Grav Cannons are good but against Death Guard it's the Lightning Claws I'll need most.

 

The Chaplain is there to provide +1 to wound from shooting (this should help a bunch with Grav Cannons or Terminator shooting) and give Canticle of Hate for the charge, netting me about 86% of getting it off with reroll cover.

 

I have 77pts left, though I can drop the 6 man and even Cherub from the Devastators if needed, so this can go to 101pts if needed without changing the list up radically.

 

I actually have plenty of stopping power for vehicles especially if I consider a charge with it and melee.

 

Lastly, the wild card is the Eversor. He's great at providing ANOTHER charge threat at turn 2, can pounce on objectives and cause trouble. He can also be swapped for a Culexus when up against those dastardly Thousand Sons or Grey Knights. Or Eldar for that matter.

 

So questions to focus on:

 

• What Secondaries spring for you? I have some ideas but my ideas can focus the mind.

 

• Those points spare... I think I want to score points so I don't fancy another character, but I do have the parts to upgrade a Rhino to a Razorback. Apart from that, more Tactical Marines for scoring?

 

• Radical change but using those points I can potentially drop the Ironclad (shock horror) and replace with a Deredeo with Plasma Carronade or even a Vindicator Laser Destroyer. Both potent weapons platforms and will distract from the points scoring objectives holders, which is crucial.

 

• Any other thoughts you'd like to share.

 

:)

Edited September 26, 2021 by Captain Idaho

[Prot]

I did not know you could dynamically swap out an assassin!

 

I think not having a psyker is actually very good. This gives you a great choice of secondary vs. Grey Knights/Thousand Sons, while making their choices tougher.

 

On the list, quite honestly it is so incredibly different from what I use (aside from Dreads, which I think are always good, and MM bikers.) It would feel very false for me to offer any sort of advice on the list.

 

I don't understand the Relic terminators. I'd love to see success with these. It does seem with such a heavy emphasis on bikes and infantry that an Apothecary with selfless healer (especially considering termies with 3 wounds) would be an asset.

 

I really hope you do this Idaho. I'd love to see you go to an event again!

[Captain Idaho]

Thanks mate, looking forward to getting back in the saddle.

 

I am tempted by an Apothecary just to bring back an Overcharging Plasma Blaster Sergeant! Always roll 1s.

 

Regarding the list - yes it's very different so somewhat skews conventional thought processes. I've used the Relic Terminators in anger and found the firepower alongside the Lightning Claws to be very potent. In fact one game enabling me to drop in, kill a 5 man Primaris squad, damage a Redemptor and kill it and Bjorn in melee with some support. I didn't really use them to the best of their abilities as I positioned them poorly on the drop.

 

What I did struggle with was attrition elsewhere on objectives. I guess I should fill out the infantry in that case, as I've kinda answered my own question !

 

Regarding the Assassin - yeah best Strategum ever! Highly recommended to take one due to this.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I’m really liking this list !!!

[lansalt]

About Devastators, I've seen several lists with 3 grav + 1 MM for shooting twice with the querub. This way they are also effective against heavier targets. A drop pod too.

[Prot]

Thanks mate, looking forward to getting back in the saddle.

 

I am tempted by an Apothecary just to bring back an Overcharging Plasma Blaster Sergeant! Always roll 1s.

 

Regarding the list - yes it's very different so somewhat skews conventional thought processes. I've used the Relic Terminators in anger and found the firepower alongside the Lightning Claws to be very potent. In fact one game enabling me to drop in, kill a 5 man Primaris squad, damage a Redemptor and kill it and Bjorn in melee with some support. I didn't really use them to the best of their abilities as I positioned them poorly on the drop.

 

What I did struggle with was attrition elsewhere on objectives. I guess I should fill out the infantry in that case, as I've kinda answered my own question !

 

Regarding the Assassin - yeah best Strategum ever! Highly recommended to take one due to this.

 

- Okay, I did not know about this strat! Where is it from?

- On the list itself, I know you have a good grasp of it, that's why me commenting on it could do more harm than good. My observation about the Apothecary stands though, especially with extra points. Often I find since he's always close to the action, he is often easier to get within 6" of table center for that 2 points on Oath. He is also a very good holder of that Oath relic (I actually always use it).

 

- I am blown away that you are not taking Tigurius, but I do realize there is merit in not taking him either. I may have to experiment with this myself.

 

- I don't expect you to do this, but since you are playing a lot of classic marines, I honestly often want to plop either a Whirlwind or the ol' Thunderfire back in. If you look at GW's terrain set up they are really slapping heavy Obscurement in mid table. Which as much as I love that, it has markedly increased the value of Indirect Fire. Too many armies are grabbing secondaries, or even plopping on Objectives in their zone with what I consider 'action monkey' units. These are units that are quite often susceptible to even low level, indirect fire.

 

That's just me though. I brought it up only because I've been trying to fit a TFC in my lists again (plus the tech is still a decent model). 

 

- Personally my 'anti-UM-character' lists are often Uriel (He's pretty unpopular) and I've been impressed by him with Bladeguard (different conversation) and I use a Techpriest. Have you considered one? Or tested it out with those dreadnoughts?

 

- On dreadnoughts, I'm slightly surprised by the Contemptor. I mean it's decent, but do you find it is worth the cost of 1CP? What makes you like it that much more than a Ven dread? (Just curious)

 

- Still love the Termies. Always do. Glad to see you are having success.

 

About Devastators, I've seen several lists with 3 grav + 1 MM for shooting twice with the querub. This way they are also effective against heavier targets. A drop pod too.

 

I was just about to recommend this.

 

What I don't like right now is according to the rewording of 'counts as standing still' or whatever, I think coming out of a pod with such a squad, or coming out of a rhino is a bit more limiting in turn 2+ because if I recall we got stealth nerfed on our tactical doctrine since the unit does not count 'on the table' during the command phase when the effect comes into play.

 

Please correct me if I'm wrong on that. It annoys me to no end that they did this to our doctrine.

 

But that being said, the squad on the move is still valid on foot, or even just re-rolling 1's. The MM double shot is always good, and I still like grav, it's just the single MM can bring big results when sorely needed with the fat baby in the squad.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Prot relic terms are the bomb mate… absolute stunners for sure !

[Captain Idaho]

Thanks for the feedback guys.

 

• The Devastators can jump out of transport in Tactical Doctrine and cleanly fire their weapons, the issue only being if they Drop Pod in as the reserves rules are an exception and will suffer penalties to hit.

 

• It's an interesting idea to whack a Multi-melta in there. Hell, I could even add one into the Tactical Marine squad with the Combi-plasma. Nice idea.

 

• On that note a Razorback with Twin Lascannons will replace a Rhino. So the main transported units will be Devastators in the Razorback an the Tactical Squad with Combi-plasma in the Rhino, alongside the Chapter Champion.

 

• That Strategum for swapping out the Assassin is called Shadow Assignment, costing 2CPs. It's in War of the Spider (Psychic Awakening) and I think in the White Dwarf article. It's excellent anyway. :)

 

• I've actually found the Contemptor lasts longer than the Ironclad. Folk kill that thing straight away just about everyone game unfortunately. The Contemptor almost always gets to charge in as it has a really fast movement that catches folk unawares usually by turn 2 or 3. If I didn't love my Ironclad so much (it looks so cool as I converted it from a standard Dreadnought) I'd go for a 2nd Contemptor as a pair of them working at that higher speed will be very dangerous. The issue is the painting on time (isn't that always the way?) but if I can I'll build and paint my 2nd Contemptor!

 

• If I have the points for a Whirlwind I would add it, as I appreciate that sentiment for winning games. I do have am Eversor Assassin for the exact reasoning you mentioned though - messing with objectives. I'm fairly sure there aren't any cheap objective campers that can survive an Eversor that's for sure!

 

***post edit***

 

• Oh yeah I forgot, I don't much fancy Tigurius since I'm use a spread out army and teleporting units. If I added a psyker I'd add a Terminator Librarian to continue the theme.

 

***post post edit***

 

• Techmarines are amazing and really boost up Contemptors. I considered one for sure and if I can add one I'll do so for sure. I'd have to drop a Transport to afford it really.

Edited August 26, 2021 by Captain Idaho

[Captain Idaho]

So without massive changes just yet, neither taking into consideration the list as a core before adjusting for advice like Apothecary and Whirlwinds, this is what I have:

 

(Note I've edited it to make it easier to read.)

 

++ Battalion Detachment ++

 

Ultramarines

 

+ No Force Organisation +

 

Eversor Assassin

 

+ HQ +

 

Captain in Terminator Armour [120pts]:

• Helm of Censure

• Storm shield

• The Imperium's Sword

• Thunder hammer

 

Chaplain in Terminator Armour [95pts]:

• Catechism of Fire

• Litany of Hate

• Storm bolter

 

+ Troops +

 

Tactical Squad ×5 [105pts]: Astartes Chainsword and Storm bolter, Heavy bolter

 

Tactical Squad ×5 [105pts]: Astartes Chainsword and Storm bolter, Heavy bolter

 

Tactical Squad ×7 [146pts] Combi-plasma, Grav-cannon

 

+ Elites +

 

Ancient in Terminator Armour [100pts]: Standard of Macragge Inviolate, Powerfist and Storm Bolter

 

Chapter Champion [75pts]: Blade of Triumph, Champion's blade

 

Contemptor Dreadnought [150pts]: Multi-melta

 

Ironclad Dreadnought [145pts]: Dreadnought chainfist, Hurricane bolter, Ironclad Assault Launchers, Meltagun

 

Relic Terminator Squad ×10 [385pts]: 2x Grenade Harness, 3 Power Fists, 1 Chainfist, 6 Lightning Claws, 2× Reaper autocannon, Mastercrafted Plasma Blaster

 

+ Fast Attack +

 

Attack Bike Squad ×2 [120pts] Multi-meltas

 

+ Heavy Support +

 

Devastator Squad ×6 [153pts]: Armorium Cherub, 4 Grav Cannons

 

+ Dedicated Transport +

 

Razorback [120pts]

 

Rhino [80pts]

 

++ Total: [9CP, 1,923pts] ++

Of course, this list isn't sent in stone and could quite possibly lose a transport to make room for more stuff. The Razorback doesn't have to be there and if the advancing Tactical Squad with Grav Cannon goes down to 5 men the Champion doesn't need the Rhino either and can go instead into the Razorback.

 

The Assassin I'm feeling is essential at this point. The type of list I've got means I just can't afford to take the Psychic defence otherwise and not be just throwing all my eggs in 1 basket on the Terminators.

 

I tried that before and found I used a lot of points on 1 part of the board.

Edited August 27, 2021 by Captain Idaho

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I like the changes.

[Captain Idaho]

A little small changes but they help.

 

Bigger changes needed for things like a Whirlwind etc but I do really like the transports as I struggled to score on foot.

[Rik Lightstar]

Just a couple of thoughts.......

 

• I rate Relic Blades over Thunder Hammers, especially with Imperium's Sword, you'd still be Strength 8 in the first round of any combat and hitting on 2+ and rerolling 1s with the Helm of Censure is as consistent as you can get., this would also net you 10 of those points back. +10pts
• Drop 1 Marines from the 7 man Tactical Squad. +18pts
• Drop the Rhino. +80pts
• Add an Apothecary. -75pts
• Add 3x Company Vets with Storm Shield and Combi Plasma. -102pts

I think you'd have a fair bit more punch and more resilience.

 

And you should still be at 1992 in total.

 

Rik

[Captain Idaho]

Nice advice and some interesting thoughts.

 

The Rhino is the most controversial issue for me - do I need the additional transport to get to objectives or am I pumping points into something I don't need?

 

I have models for Company Veterans and could definitely give then a whirl. Hell I did think about them previously. They could be better off with melta though as they won't kill themselves and their Storm Shields.

 

Regarding the Relic Blade... yes another thing I considered but I'm not sure yet. The Damage 3 is very effective and against any and all Marines I'd get a +1 to hit and wound, so would be hitting and wounding on rerollable 2s against everything T7 and below in those armies. It's a tough one to consider what is best as damage 3 I found very important previously.

 

What does common consensus here think about it?

[Prot]

Just a couple of thoughts.......

 

• I rate Relic Blades over Thunder Hammers, especially with Imperium's Sword, you'd still be Strength 8 in the first round of any combat and hitting on 2+ and rerolling 1s with the Helm of Censure is as consistent as you can get., this would also net you 10 of those points back. +10pts
• Drop 1 Marines from the 7 man Tactical Squad. +18pts
• Drop the Rhino. +80pts
• Add an Apothecary. -75pts
• Add 3x Company Vets with Storm Shield and Combi Plasma. -102pts

I think you'd have a fair bit more punch and more resilience.

 

And you should still be at 1992 in total.

 

Rik

 

I see a few competitive lists that use the small squads of Company Vets. I'm not saying it's a bad idea, but I don't get it. To me our Victrix guard seem better. The Company Vets are often action monkeys, as are the Victrix, but the body guard rule and old school shields do help a bit. (plus they punch low level stuff in the face pretty good).

 

Nice advice and some interesting thoughts.

 

The Rhino is the most controversial issue for me - do I need the additional transport to get to objectives or am I pumping points into something I don't need?

 

I have models for Company Veterans and could definitely give then a whirl. Hell I did think about them previously. They could be better off with melta though as they won't kill themselves and their Storm Shields.

 

Regarding the Relic Blade... yes another thing I considered but I'm not sure yet. The Damage 3 is very effective and against any and all Marines I'd get a +1 to hit and wound, so would be hitting and wounding on rerollable 2s against everything T7 and below in those armies. It's a tough one to consider what is best as damage 3 I found very important previously.

 

What does common consensus here think about it?

 

Here's the thing about the transport. Most games I use mine in the primary role of holding important junk until my turn (especially if I have bottom of turn against a shooty opponent).The dudes get out, they do their thing, and most of the game the Rhino/Transport just sits on an objective, and also 'blocks' out reserves. (I usually combine this with one unit of Infiltrators to expand that block out.

 

The secondary role is to full speed ahead against very assaulty opponents, and also to absorb mortal wounds/smites against stuff like GK/TS.

 

But if you have experience in 6 objective maps, covering your backfield with units, then you may not need this. I personally find with a lot of my smaller/marine armies, I am always struggling to figure out which of these units do I want to do this with. 

 

I started re-introducing Impulsors (in my case) for that role. With a shield no one wants to shoot at them. They are fast enough , have a decent foot print, and they let my infantry leave the backfield. Conversely I find it very frustrating to leave squads of troops or whatever on your backline defending Objectives, and twiddling their thumbs. In the end choosing "Banners" becomes a better play for that kind of list.

 

On the damage... That's a tough one. If you go character hunting with your HQ, it's pretty big to have damage 3. I actually really like using Uriel Ventris because of his Sword of Idaeus for damage 3. (and he's fairly cheap).  This guy goes with my bladeguard. But he does go after HQ's, and I've killed a fair amount with that combo. I find Damage 2 or even D3 just frustrating as heck. But I play against Death Guard a lot, and even some armies that reduce damage by 1 on characters, etc. 

 

In this case I think it depends on how you play him. I personally only use one Relic in our codex (Oath), so I refuse to spend an extra CP on another one. I bet your aggressive with this guy. I personally would stick to the hammer and go after the hardest crap your opponent has with him and your termie blob. I mean it looks like that's what your list wants to do, right? OR are you defensive with him? 

[Closet Skeleton]

Terminator Ancients feel really over costed. Are they really worth 5 points more than a Chaplain or 5 less than a Librarian?

[Captain Idaho]

Spot on, Prot. I launch attacks with the Captain and Terminators and found them amazingly powerful with the Chaplain and rerolls to charge. The Captain alone has killed units of Thunder Wolves on his own, netting 6 out of 6 hits and wounds several turns in a row. That kind of offence means I can force the opponent's focus and attack their base line objective holders.

 

Relics... I've gone a little heavy on them really. The Censured Helm has worked out brilliant for me, whilst the Chapter Champion is a scary prospect for opponents with that damage 3 etc. The Seal of Oath is something I consider and it might find it's way in, perhaps at the expense of Honoured Sergeant, but that's minor fine tuning really.

[Captain Idaho]

Terminator Ancients feel really over costed. Are they really worth 5 points more than a Chaplain or 5 less than a Librarian?

Well this one can drop in and support the Terminators with the Standard of Macragge Inviolate. Combined with 10 Terminators, the amount of attacks generated will cause a lot of damage.

 

Plus he's got a 2+ save and additional wound thanks to Terminator Armour.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

And he has a power fist… he is utterly amazing !

[Prot]

Idaho,

 

Your list, and thread here made me load up some of my favourite assault lists that I like to use. Some of these are Ultramarine lists, most of them are not.

 

My Ultramarine assault lists do heavily favour Primaris (just because) but the style is different from my other assault lists. My UM's basically play an aggressive mid table hold style. Still has lots of units that shoot, and many of the assault units also shoot well (IE: Aggressors).

 

So the question my lists lead me to is.... what do you do when you go against a very heavily assault oriented list. A codex that is built for assault, and plays straight into that playstyle.  How does your game plan change or success rate change when you face White Scars, or Blood Angels for example? What about Death Guard? 

 

These are armies that UM can out shoot, but when it comes to positioning, and strong assault  units, they simply have the advantages built in. 

 

I'm just curious what your results have been like in those sort of match ups?

[Captain Idaho]

Assault lists seldom sorry me really. My friend plays choppy Orks and Space Wolves and dealing with them becomes habit. I find that I am able to shoot pretty well compared to these armies yet have a decent close combat punch in return, which means they can't steamroll me.

 

It's being shot off the board that normally hurts most.

 

My game plan is to use speed bumps against them, funnel them in and counter attack hard. The dropping Terminators generally get to charge and shoot in a turn, thus hurting at least 2 targets badly.

Edited August 30, 2021 by Captain Idaho

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I love the master crafted plasma blaster !

[Captain Idaho]

I love the master crafted plasma blaster !

Yeah it's this part that makes me want to take an Apothecary, but reroll ones should mean he's okay most games.

 

Well, not with my rolling but hey.

[Prot]

So do the terminators always deep strike?

 

[XeonDragon]

A couple of suggestions:

 

1. Switch the heavy bolters for grav cannons on the tactical marine squads. Extra shot and AP for the same price, only slightly less range. 
2. Take a single MM on the devastator squad. You'll get great value out of the signum and cherub on it, whilst keeping the overall cost cheap.  
3. Definitely take a chief apothecary. They will really help you get the most out of the relic terminators. Consider a couple of 'ablative wound' marines in the squad. Only issue might be delivery (see point 4)
4. Consider a drop-pod instead of a Rhino - they can come down turn 1, good for move blocking and with the doors open on and placed right on top of an objective will force an opponent to delete it to flip the objective. 
5. Make the tactical squad 5-man squads. With the point saved, see points 1 and 2 and consider taking a small squad of company veterans with storm shields + whatever (keep them cheap) for ROD or other secondary objectives, screening. 

[Prot]

I like these as I strongly believe where people complained about the Apothecary on release, it's nearly essential in today's game.  You have enough elite models (3 wounds) that it makes sense.

 

Not sure about the pod though. It's very dangerous. It can backfire against good opponents that know how to block you out. Otherwise you could be forced into putting it exactly where your opponent wants it. Again, it's also more difficult to use our Tactical Doctrine from a pod which sucks.

 

I flip flop on pods myself.