What Books, and for what, getting started?

[Trokair]

I have been interested in playing AT since it came out, but at the time no one else in the local play group was interested, so I just bought some AT knights and Titans (and occasionally popped in this corner of the forum to ask some questions).

 

My local play group has since expanded, and there may be a few interested players. As such I am trying to get my head around how to get started, what is the minimum buy in as it where to see if I can persuade at least 3 others to commit (as I think a minimum of 4 players is would be needed to keep going) .

 

Obviously the big box with the rules, dice, 2 reveres, 2 warhounds and 2 shield knights is a good start, but where to go from there? How important are the varies books, are unit rules just on the cards or in the books (do all kits come with their unit cards?).

 

 

 

Also, if somebody did not want to commit to that starter box, is there a feasible minimum playable buyin to play games (they can borrow my main rule book if needed)?

 

Asking as I suspect one potential player is very much on a budget (their last new stuff was 9^th 40k starter split with another player, and they only have two small armies despite playing since 5^th or thereabout) so if there is a budget budget entry point that be useful to know.

 

[1ncarnadine]

Picking up or splitting the main starter set with the Reavers and Warhounds is definitely the best entry, so your group has at least one copy of the core rules. When it comes to picking up more supplements, it really depends on what kind of Legio you want to collect.

After the rulebook, there's a Loyalist Legios supplement and an upcoming Traitor Legios supplement. The Loyalists book compiles all of the Loyalist Titan Legions, most all of the Loyalist Knight Houses, and all of the stratagems available to Loyalists from all previous supplements (outside a few generic strats from the core book), and also updated the rules for all of those. The updates are also available on an FAQ online.

This is a really great resource to have and should be a priority in your group if you have any Loyalists. The Loyalist book also added some cool Loyalist-only upgrades, but also generic equipment available to all Titan Legions, so to some extent it even has value to non-Loyalist players. Presumably, the Traitors book will also have this generic equipment section, its own set of compiled stratagems, and a selection of Traitor-only upgrades, but we're still not sure when it's releasing. Hopefully it's soon.

From there, there are only two more supplements that have much lasting value, depending. I'd really recommend Defence of Ryza, which has extra faction abilities for any Loyalist, Traitor or Blackshield (the Loyalist Legios book also includes the Loyalist faction ability, fwiw), some interesting options for Knight forces, and most importantly, the Crusade Titan Legion rules that allow a player to create their own Titan Legion. One or more players could use that rule set to kind of play around with what they like, paint up their Titan Legions in whatever color scheme they fancy, and maybe settle on a specific set of rules and identity for what they've created as they learn the game. On the other hand, I could see the Crusade Legio rules being overwhelming at first, but in the long term this is still a great buy.

If anyone plans to play Knights, they'll also need Doom of Molech. Ryza is helpful to have for the aforementioned Knight House additions, but Molech has the main expanded rules for playing a Knight Household. I would honestly advise against anyone going Knights immediately unless it's their main hook to get them into the system, because Knights have a polarizing playstyle, and I feel one of the major attractions of the game is the positional decision-making with Titans. Knights don't have arcs, reactors or void shields and are very simplified.

The other supplements, Titandeath, Shadow & Iron, and Crucible of Retribution, have various campaign rules and scenarios that are nice to have, but now that there are Loyalist Legio and Traitor Legio supplements that gathered most of the rest of the content in these, they're not worth as much. There's also some decent background in them, especially Crucible, but it's relatively shallow and dry compared to the big Horus Heresy black books, if you're familiar with those. Right now, these books are also where you would be able to find Traitor Titan Legio and Knight Household rules, but with the Traitor Legios supplement coming, I don't think I can recommend these over waiting for that book.


When it comes to your actual forces, if any of you can manage to find a Precept Maniple box on an FLGS shelf or anything, go for it. It was an incredible deal for its contents. Unfortunately, the Precept's run is over so they won't be boxing more of these sets, but apparently there are still a few lingering around. If you chance on one it's definitely worth picking up and possibly splitting around the group.

Otherwise, it's not a bad idea to keep buying and splitting the starter set. It's already cheaper than buying a Warhound set and two Reavers on their own, so the rule book, dice, markers and knights are all essentially freebies.

Warlords might be worth avoiding for a bit if you're trying to keep things affordable. Both of the Warlord variant box sets have "incomplete" load-outs that are dramatically more effective on the board with at least one resin weapon option from Forge World. Each box has two of the same arm weapon option; either two volcano cannons or two plasma annihilators. If two people pick up a different Warlord variant each, they could probably swap a volcano cannon for a plasma annihilator with each other and leave both players a bit better off without having to buy any resin.

For the person on a much tighter budget, the simplest buy-in to play is to have a maniple, which is 3 Titans at minimum. That's still a fair amount of the contents of the main starter set, probably a Reaver and two Warhounds, which gives a few different maniple options to play with. Again, splitting a starter box is probably the best bet for them. The Warhound box comes with 2 hounds, so that might be another option to split boxes for Titans. There are often some pretty good deals online to buy at a discount, generally 15% under MSRP on ebay and elsewhere, so definitely take advantage of those, too.

Ignore the fancy Warmaster Titans unless you get really into it. They only scale well for fairly large games, require one other maniple in the force to be taken (so 3 Titans + a Warmaster), and push a force towards having low activations, which is not new-player friendly. It goes without saying that they're not a budget option, either.

The Warbringer Nemesis Titans are in a similar boat, where they're classed as a support Titan. Unlike the Warmaster, there are a handful of maniples they can be deployed in, but the number of maniples they're included in is very limited. There is one with a Warbringer and 2-4 Warhounds that might make an alright starting force for certain Titan Legions, though.

But in general I'd recommend that most players try to get a Reaver and two Warhounds together, first. Go off the main rule book and probably skip the Titan Legio rules until your group has a handle of the core mechanics, and go from there.


edit: I canned Knight Households a bit, but as far as reinforcing your Titan maniples, they're pretty solid. They're also more affordable kits, and any player with some Knights built can lend banners around to help fill out anyone else's forces if they haven't been able to buy, build and paint as many Titans.

Edited August 27, 2021 by LetsYouDown

[Trokair]

Thank you very much for that very detailed and helpful reply.

 

From this I gather that to learn to play we don’t actually need any of the other books, just the main rule book, and that the three or so starter box should cover us pretty well. Additional Reavers/warhounds useful and Warlords optional, but ok if people really like them in the early stages.

 

Ignore Warmaster and Nemissis until we are well committed and want to continue, also once we are more familiar we can decide on Loyalist/Traitor and get the appropriate book (as presumably by then the traitor one will be).

 

Good to know about Doom of Molech for knights (as I am most likely to go and try that, I already have 30 or so unbuilt ones (at least one of each box including FW)) but also good to know that I should leave them for later once I/we as a group are more experienced.

 

The other books have interesting additions (especially Ryza) but again are more for when we know our way around.

[Noserenda]

Yup the starter is excellent, I started on a budget before it and ravers, warhounds and knights are a lot cheaper relatively than the bigger titans, splitting a starter to get a couple of each should work well, I started with a reaver and two warhounds and it's fun :)

[schoon]

So I'll speak to the "bare minimum" question.

 

If you're really looking to get involved on a shoestring budget, you can find the revised softback AT rulebook and templates on eBay  for about $20-30 US.

 

Download the command terminals https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/05/14/adeptus-titanicus-downloadable-command-terminalsgw-homepage-post-2fw-homepage-post-1/

 

...and initially, you don't even need models. You can get the appropriate-sized mini bases and use them as proxies till you learn the game and/or get your own miniatures painted.

 

Then you can specifically build your force using only the models that are working for you in actual play.

Edited August 27, 2021 by schoon

[Mandragola]

LetsYouDown has covered this very well. Essentially, the starter for AT is truly excellent and there's nothing else you need straight away. The loyalist book is definitely the first to go for as it has a ton of rules that'll also be useful for traitors, like all the currently available maniples. Of the remainder, Ryza has your Legio creation rules and Molech is required for knights.

 

Terrain can be an issue for AT. It's a different scale to most other games so nobody generally starts out with much. I'm building a board up slowly myself but the official stuff is expensive. I've managed to get hold of a couple of good ebay deals but third party stuff is cheaper. The cheapest option is dropzone commander card buildings, where you can get a city board for a very low price.

 

I'd advise against buying the rules outside of the starter. It's true you can pick the book up on ebay for not much money. Thing is, the starter is currently by far the cheapest way to buy titans. If you didn't want titans your best bet to buy the rules would still be to buy the starter. Then sell the titans and you'd have the book and probably a profit. I recently met a guy who had assumed that second hand models would be cheaper than buying the box (and didn't check, for some reason) and all he'd managed to do was get the contents of the starter, with no models, for more than the cost he'd have paid for the whole thing at a FLGS.

 

TL:DR, get a starter each and go from there.

[Trokair]

Yea, terrain is an issue, and as the one who is trying to persuade the others I am prepared to do the initial investment into it.

 

There is someone in the local DnD group that also meet In the shop who has made some modular terrain for them (cave, castle and such) out of a combination of 3D printed and I think foam stuff. So I am planning on getting the Adeptus Titanicus Manufactorum Imperialis set and asking them to make us some terrain, incorporating 3 or 4 small pieces from that set into each bit (to help set the scale). 

[schoon]

For terrain on the cheap, I'd suggest just making rock formations out of a sheet of closed cell polystyrene (pink or blue sheet) from any DIY home store

 

is a good video on the basics, though you can use a sharp knife instead of a foam cutter.

 

One sheet will make more than enough terrain for an entire table.

[Mandragola]

Thinking more on this, the only problem with the starter is that it'll give you a particular kind of force: one made of Reavers and Warhounds and without Warlords. You don't even get thin card Warlord terminals or weapon cards in there. So what if you do want Warlords? Buying the £15 pack of thick terminals with one Warlord terminal in it isn't a good deal.

 

The original Grand Master Edition isn't a terrible deal. As well as the two Warlords you're getting a couple of units of knights, some terrain and the thick card terminals - two each of Warlord, Reaver and Warhound - plus two for Questoris knights. If you combine it with the new starter you'd have thick terminals for all your engines. You get a good set of weapon cards too - one for every weapon.

 

These things aren't too easy to get hold of but there are still a few out there. They also pop up on ebay occasionally.

 

The trouble is that even then you really need some resin guns and probably some sunfurys too for your Warlords. Unlike any other AT model, Warlords don't really play well straight out of the box. There's no easy way to get them set up but the GME is probably the least bad option.

[LameBeard]

Yeah we need that Precept Maniple back - that would be a good option for some for expanding.

[Trokair]

I am hopeing that there will be some box/deal in the Christmas run up.

[schoon]

I'm guessing that Traitor Legios and maybe a model release will be their XMas offering.

[Noserenda]

Still hoping for late Q3, still got a couple of weeks :D 

[Mandragola]

Even if there's a Christmas release, and I hope there is, the starter set will still be the best way to get into this game. The Precept maniple was awesome but it didn't have the rules or templates.

[Trokair]

Follow up question, specifically in regards to terrain, I have found some MDF kits that make some interesting structures, it says it is for 10mm scale games.

 

Do you think that is too large for AT scale or can it potentially work?

[Mandragola]

TT Combat's range of MDF terrain is designed to work with AT or dropzone commander, if that's what you mean. It's quite fun stuff.

 

I've recently been having a bit of fun making Civitas terrain from GW. I picked it up over a long-ish period though, by scouring ebay for deals. You can see the results here: http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353158-mandragola%E2%80%99s-legio-astorum-and-mortis-and-stuff/page-27

[Trokair]

It was indeed TT Combat’s stuff I was looking at, and the ones I looked at all said 10mm scale so wasn’t sure. I guess I’ll order one through my local shop and see how it feels next to some Knights and Titans.

 

I have seen you thread and been marveling at the terrain, and thinking it must have been so expensive. I’ll probably end up getting at least of of each of the GW sets just to experiment with, but for all that terrain is important actual titans are the priority to get the playgroup started this winter.

[schoon]

For MDF scenery, there's lots of good stuff out there:

 

Dark Ops makes a nice line.

 

Warmage is nice, but scales a little large.

 

BP Laser is a small but nice range.

 

Best for last... Red Beam Designs makes some really cool stuff!

 

Lots more links here.

[Mandragola]

I'm not sure that MDF stuff is really much cheaper than Civitas terrain. It is a bit less, it's true. My stuff cost me somewhere between £200-250. To be fair that's not exactly cheap - probably more than the actual armies.

 

Dark Sphere does Civitas boxes for £20.63 (a bit of an odd number but whatever). My 10 buildings average about the contents of one set each. I'm not sure I'd bother with the spires set personally, to be honest, though the admech sprues are quite fun.

[Trokair]

The two or three kits I was looking at specifically were £12 each and were decently sized I think.

Examples:

https://ttcombat.com/collections/sci-fi-x/products/compound-benezia
https://ttcombat.com/collections/sci-fi-x/products/compound-eve

[Xenith]

As a new player, with two games under my belt, 3 titans (~800pts with reaver 2x hound) feels too small for anything but an intro game. I played another with 3 Reavers and 3 hounds with 2 knights, was maybe too large for the time we had. I think the contents of the starter box, about 1300 points is probably going to be the sweet spot for my games. It really, truly is an excellent box. If you play 1000-1300 point games, you don't need anything more than that either.

[Shovellovin]

Hi All,

 

Is the rulebook from the current starter set a softcover? My buddy and I have finally committed to playing AT and I had heard that the latest rulebook had updated rules in it. 

 

I just picked up the Loyalist Legions book. My buddy will get the Traitor Legions book once it is released.

 

Thank you.

[Noserenda]

Yup the starter has the latest softback

[Mandragola]

It's worth saying that, regardless of which rulebook you get, you still need the FAQ. Unfortunately the rulebook is far from clear in quite a lot of areas. The FAQ clears up some of them. Go to https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/ZD5PzJART9mJGL9z.pdf for the most recent update.

[Shovellovin]

Thank you, Gents. I found a copy of the rulebook for cheap, downloaded the FAQ and am now planning to finish off the models I started in 2020. I’m looking forward to some engine kills!