What Books, and for what, getting started?

[Trokair]

So since this I started this thread I have been waiting for the Starter set to come back into stock and it just hasn’t, month after month. So in December/January I bought into AI instead while waiting. However with the announced price increases I can see AT being hit (I’d love to be wrong here, but as a specialist game who knows) so am now seriously considering blowing a significant chunk of the years hobby budget to buy into AT without the value of a starter set.

 

While initially I had intended to have enough Titians to lend out some to starting players curtsey of the starter set this is probably of the table. On the pluss side there have been a few new people at the local club/store and some are interested in AT/have some initial Titans.

 

I have already bought some terrain last autumn in preparation, and have a good chunk of knights, so it’s mainly titans I am looking at. I do have the main rulebook (paperback from a starter set via ebay).

 

How does this sound as a list?

 

Books: Loyalist, Doom of Molech (so that I can run all knight forces once I am more experienced) and maybe Defense of Ryza

 

Titans:  1 Warmaster (leaning towards Iconoclast), 1 Warlord (maybe with the other weapon option sprue so I can magnetize all options on one – Warlod is my least favorite astatically so 1 is probably all I want), 2 Reavers (one of each option), 1 Warbringer  and 2 Warhounds.

 

This would give me a bit of everything.

[Gillyfish]

Well, that could work, although technically you don't need the Warmaster. A lot of the game hinges on the extra rules granted by the different maniples and Warmaters aren't inluded in the maniples. If you coould get a Warbringer instead, that might give you some options. Certainly having a Warlord, Reaver and a Warhound, would give you an Axiom, which is a good starting maniple and can be expanded with an extra Reaver and Warhound. The loyalist book gathers together the different maniples for you, so you can look at those and decide how you want to expand from there. For example, a third Reaver would be the minimum required for a Corsair maniple.

[Sword Brother Adelard]

Yeah, Warmasters aren't seeing a lot of play yet. I think average game sizes need to increase to change that. but certainly in a 1750 point game the sacrifices you need to make in the rest of the force to take one mean you're heavily reliant upon the Warmaster doing ALL of the heavy lifting, and in my experience, they don't do it.

[Trokair]

Thanks you both. I put the Warmaster on my list as I like the model more than the Warlord and I figured it would be a nice centerpiece, but if they are seeing comparatively little play the maybe I don’t.

[Mandragola]

I agree I wouldn't bother with a Warmaster, especially for introductory play. It's complicated and costs almost as many points as the rest of that stuff added together.

 

Instead I'd go for one of each Warlord variant. Then you could run them with bellicosa and sunfury on their arms, which isn't bad (dual bellicosa is bad). This is much more efficient than buying a sprue, as you can quite often pick them up from ebay at reasonable prices.

 

Maybe if you do this Murphy's law will kick in and the starter set will come back into stock. If so, thanks for taking one for the team.

[Sword Brother Adelard]

Putting all that I said about play aside. If you just want the kit for the look, do it. It's an amazing kit, it's more like building a top notch historical kit than a GW one.

[Trokair]

Are any of the forgeworld weapons option serious contenders or just 'nice to have if you want' options?

 

Edit: Is the Warlord-Sinister Psi-Titan just the Warlord With Plasma Annihilator and Power Claw kit with extra resin? As in would I be able to build the normal titan out of the kit and magnatise the Psi options?

 

 

Maybe if you do this Murphy's law will kick in and the starter set will come back into stock. If so, thanks for taking one for the team.

If that’s what it takes I’ll do it.

Edited February 10, 2022 by Trokair

[Sword Brother Adelard]

Sadly, the Forgeworld Warlord weapons do become a bit of a must on the Warlord, on the other titans they aren't a big issue.

 

The paired Gatlings are the best finisher in the game, the S5 combined with the ordnance re-rolls makes them great at finishing off whatever a plasma or volcano opens up.

 

The Vulcans are the best shield strippers, then a pretty good finisher.

 

I personally don't rate the laser weapons in the game, at all. So have given up on taking them. Also, I think the reaver laser destructors look better on a warlord carapace than the FW ones, so you can save some money there if you line up the magnets correctly. (Both reaver and warlord carapace weapons use 5mm magnets)

 

The warlord arm gatling is seriously good too, my friend's favourite warlord build is triple Gatling and a plasma with the overcharged cannon upgrade strat to make it S12 on maximal.

The thing deletes light titans. Preferably he'd strip shields with the top Gatlings, then let the plasma loose into a random location, and polish off with the arm gatling. But even if he needs the arm gatling to polish off the shields, he's outright killed a reaver with the super plasma.

 

I think that just leaves the Volkite weapons. Sadly the Eradicator is just awful, and really needs a boost somewhere. But the Destructor is actually decent. It's not a horrendous shield strippers, and it auto hits a location of choice, which is not to be sniffed at.

 

On the other titans, the reaver Vulcan is pricey but useful, but I do ball at the price for what you get for £11...

 

That just leaves the Ursus claw/shock lance. It's a dual kit, and if you build clever with some brass rod you can swap the lance heads for better value for money. In game the lance isn't that good, and despite several attempts I've never managed to get it to go off before the Warhound carrying it does. The claw however, since they rewrote the rules is a real contender. They can compromise a Reaver's legs in one hit if you get lucky on the rolls. My friend has Audax and he's been running around with what he calls the Uberclaw, which is a S8 claw, which is seriously scary. In theory, and with a bit of luck, it can kill a Warmaster.

[Trokair]

Thanks, might throw a few of these in the list of ‘I need to make free shipping threshold what random thing do I need’.

 

 

What about the Warlord Quake Cannon, that looks nasty?

[Mandragola]

Brother Adelard's comments on the weapons are exactly right, in my opinion.

 

The two most common Warlord load-outs are a bellicosa with a quake cannon and missiles on the roof and the triple gatling and sunfury load-out. One is a solid support titan and the other is a scary midfield brawler. I'd recommend a FW order of a macro gatling, quake cannon, paired gatlings and maybe a Reaver VMB - though as Adelard says that's a tiny bit of resin for its price.

 

The Psi-titan could potentially be magnetised. You do get the full plasma Warlord. However you'd be magnetising quite a lot including the head, a bit of armour above that (which the PT doesn't use) and all the void shield generators, as on the PT those sit on top of a resin thingy. And of course the PTs aren't part of a Legio so really they should be painted in their own scheme. Overall it's just more trouble than it's worth.

 

However you do get at least one spare sunfury with a PT. You get two of them and one of its arms has to be the Sinistramanus. Buying a PT and a bellicosa Warlord does give you quite  a lot of flexibility in how you equip them both, so that's a potential alternative to buying two non-psychic warlords.

 

Something else to bear in mind with Warlords is that they don't come with terminals or weapon cards. The best way round this is probably to look on ebay for the original rules set. It comes with 2 thick terminals for Warhounds, Reavers and Warlords, plus at least one card for each weapon. You also get a set of the plastic templates that you'll need for turns, battlefield assets and a few other things. It's a lot cheaper than buying that stuff individually.

[Sword Brother Adelard]

I forgot the QUake!

The Quake is decent. It was the first weapon I bought for my volcano warlord, just so that I didn't have two draining weapons, and the ranges more or less line up. The issue with the quake is the -1 at short range, although that is less of an issue with an artillery Warlord, which wants to sit back and shoot.

 

(It IS however, an issue on the Warbringer where the rest of its  available weapons want to be in short range. It's one of the big reasons the Warbringer doesn't see a lot of play, it just doesn't have any well synchronised loadouts, I saw Steve on Tabletop Standard play triple Volcano Warbringer, and it blew itself up turn 2 repair phase!)

 

In an extergimus, the Quake is, IMO a better choice than the Bellicosa. Firing a Bellicosa in an extergimus makes it S14, which is only really needed for big targets or critting Acastus, but doing so could drain 2 or even 3 heat per shot. Whereas an extergimus Quake is S11 for one heat, plus Quake and Concussion, for 35 points less!

[Sword Brother Adelard]

I also forgot the Warp Missile. 

The Warp Missile isn't great. For two reasons. First off, the actual Warp payload, due to a weird isuse with how the rules are written, means that it you roll the 'top' damage with the warp rules, it only does critical damage not a critical hit. The difference is that a critical hit does 2 track damage, and critical damage, whereas critical damage is just the critical point, meaning it's repaired entirely with one 5+. Which is likely to be the case as the Reaver firing it probably fired it early to ensure it was used before the Reaver died, and because it's bypass, there was likely no other structural damage caused at that stage.

 

Where the part comes into its own is if you're loyalist and use it as a Vortex weapon which are really dangerous. But the problem with Vortex, and this is the second problem with the part is that they are so good, that events keep banning or limiting them to just one. (Yet there is still no corresponding limiting of Corrupted titans which in my view are just as problematic...) Vortex is just one of those AT Bogeymen, along with the Crusade rules that a really lazy attitude to balance just decides to ban, rather than engage with.

[Trokair]

I had not realised that the boxes come without the terminals, so for clarity, what kits don’t come with terminals? Just the Warlord or is it all/most?

 

Talking of terminal and cards, are the stats for titans, knights and their weapons in the rulebooks (I kind of assumed they would be as well as terminals in the box, but if I was wrong on one count so now I don’t know.

[Sword Brother Adelard]

Basically everything that predates the Warbringer, I think?

Warlords, reavers and Warhounds have no in box terminals. Warmasters, warbringers and the Psi Titan come with terminals.

On the knights front, I don't think any do, FW aside.

Edited February 11, 2022 by Brother Adelard

[Forté]

There is an option for terminals if you use a tablet or ohone with a decent screen (tablet is obviously easier during game). It's called Titerminal and seems to have most weapon options. Not perfect but it's a free option.

[Lord_Borak]

Yeah, none of the Plastic Knights come with Terminals included and the only plastic kit that comes with (thin card) Terminal is the Warmaster.

 

All the Forge World kits come with the flimsy Card Terminals.

 

I have loads of the thin card Terminals if you need them. 

[Sword Brother Adelard]

Yeah, none of the Plastic Knights come with Terminals included and the only plastic kit that comes with (thin card) Terminal is the Warmaster.

 

All the Forge World kits come with the flimsy Card Terminals.

 

I have loads of the thin card Terminals if you need them.

The Warbringer also includes a terminal. Easy to forget perhaps when noone uses them?

[Inktopus]

The thin card terminals work really well if you attach magnetic sheets to the back of them. I ended up mostly replacing my shield/damage token things with magnetic push pins.