Sternguard in Ultramarines armies

[Captain Idaho]

I'm think about something BFF mentioned to me recently about adding in Sternguard into an Ultramarines army and at first I was like "well, Sternguard just aren't as good without Masterful Marksmanship" then I thought about it an realised something...

 

Chaplains can use Catechism of Fire on them without spending a Command Point as standard and they have AP-2 standard which is -3 in Tactical Doctrine.

 

So we're basically firing Plasma guns that aren't overcharged against T4+.

 

All for only 20pts a model? That's actually really really good. We can also add Heavy Flamers into the mix and have 3 attacks per model on the charge, with a Sergeant likely with Lightning Claw.

 

So can we get this unit to work for relatively cheap cost? They can jump out of a Rhino and even use Catechism of Fire with Commanding Oratory if we miss the Command Phase usage.

 

I think there is a reason to use these guys and am looking to reintroduce them into my lists. They can attack objectives along with a character fairly well.

 

Anyone else have thoughts on this.

Edited September 6, 2021 by Captain Idaho

[Karhedron]

My concern with Sternguard is just that for the same points you can get a squad of Intercessors with basically the same statline and just one worse point of AP. But they are Troops (and hence ObjSec), have longer range and have access to strats like THP. You can also swap out for Assault or Heavy versions of their guns if you wish.

 

It is not that Sternguard are bad, they aren't. But the Elite slot has a lot of good competition and Intercessors work nearly as well while being Troops.

[Captain Idaho]

Sternguard are range 30". They're exactly the same as Intercessors except they trade Objective Secured for AP-2, can can go into a cheaper transport in greater numbers and are Elites.

 

The trade off isn't bad for points, plus they can get weapon support in the form of specials, heavies and combis.

 

I guess I've not had much luck using Troops alone to push an enemy off an objective. The additional kick of AP-2 is hard to pass up as it's a good thing.

 

I'm torn on these guys. Stock, I think you're totally correct they don't quite bring enough kick to the party (maybe if they had MM back as standard or something), but the biggest plus point is when we add bonuses to the unit.

 

Tactical Doctrine and Catechism of Fire are really solid and the benefit to Sternguard is quite high. Sure, AP-2 (if same applied to Intercessors) is good, but AP-3 is very much highly valued.

 

The maths says 16% extra killing power against saves, the reality as we know when we play is the outlier results are greatly affected. The odds of rolling exceptionally well as a one off per turn are that much more painful on a 5+ compared to 6+, for example.

[Charlo]

You can pod them in with a first-born chaplain (or use up the space and have him with a jump pack) and use the litany with the stratagem in a later phase, could make for a pretty nasty drop'n'shoot threat. Easily could hurt anything on the charge too with the amount of attacks.

[Karhedron]

Sternguard are range 30". They're exactly the same as Intercessors except they trade Objective Secured for AP-2, can can go into a cheaper transport in greater numbers and are Elites.

Thanks for the correction on the range. For some reason I have Sternguard as 24" range in my head. You make a good point about Transports, particularly a Drop Pod. Mind you, my Marines have been doing pretty well with footslogging lately.

 

I guess I've not had much luck using Troops alone to push an enemy off an objective. The additional kick of AP-2 is hard to pass up as it's a good thing.

You are right there. Most Troops will struggle to kick a similar points value off an Objective. I tend to use my Elites, Heavies and FAs to clear ground while the Troops move up to take and hold. Occasionally I get a good result my Intercessor sergeant squashing a Canoptek Spyder with a his Thunder Hammer but generally I use Troops for holding and support while my more specialised units do the heavy lifting.

 

If you are looking for AP kick, I think comparing them to a squad of Plasma Inceptors is useful. 9 Sternguard + Chaplain in a Pod will set you back about as much as 5 Plasmaceptors so let's compare bang for buck.

 

Sternguard can drop in T1 thanks to the pod so have the advantage there.

Sternguard have 25% more wounds but at T4 while Plasmaceptors have T5 and access to THP so pretty similar overall.

Assuming the Chaplain auto-chants his litany, the Sternguard get 18 shots at AP-2 that wound MEQs on a 3+ while Plasmaceptors get 20 at AP-3 on average. BUT that does not tell the whole story. Plasmaceptors are a lot better vs T5+ targets or against squads with 6+ models thanks to Blast. Also Plasmaceptors can overcharge if necessary to deal with even heavier targets (albeit at a risk).

Plasmaceptors retain more mobility and can continue to hop around the battlefield.

Sternguard are better in melee with the Chaplain able to dish out some hurt but that probably isn't their best use.

 

Overall I think Plasmaceptors have the edge in most situations. Sternguard + Chaplain require to CPs to equal the performance of Plasmaceptors, even under the most favourable situations. Against tougher or more numerous targets, an equal value in Plasma Inceptors will out-perform the Sternguard, even without CP support.

 

I suppose Sternguard can clear an Objective and then hold it themselves thanks to their greater numbers but I am still not persuaded it is the best use of the points.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I’m planning to build a squad after I finish my Iron Hands.

[lansalt]

I suppose Sternguard can clear an Objective and then hold it themselves thanks to their greater numbers but I am still not persuaded it is the best use of the points.

 

How about supporting the Sternguards with a unit which can give them obsec like Sicarius?

Also, they can have 2 heavy weapons in a min size squad.

[MadEdric]

I love Sternguard, though I play casual. They give me a good choice when I want to play my Firstblood lists.

Just the special issue bolters and two heavy bolters, powersword on the sgt.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

They can load up on combi weapons as well so a very versatile unit IMO.

[Captain Idaho]

I'm not sure comparing Sternguard to Inceptors is accurate really. They're just too different. Inceptors have no real infantry comparison really.

 

Inceptors are really good at jumping down and killing something of course, but I'd say they aren't going to hold that objective afterwards. They are shorter ranged and should be jumping over to the next target to eliminate. They're your power unit that has a high threat profile.

 

The Sternguard are the kind of unit that takes the objective and holds it.

 

I guess the real question is: do Sternguard achieve their role sufficiently for their investment?

Edited September 6, 2021 by Captain Idaho

[Captain Idaho]

I love Sternguard, though I play casual. They give me a good choice when I want to play my Firstblood lists.

 

Just the special issue bolters and two heavy bolters, powersword on the sgt.

How about supporting the Sternguards with a unit which can give them obsec like Sicarius?

 

Also, they can have 2 heavy weapons in a min size squad.

You guys bring up interesting points. There is an opportunity for 2 Heavy weapons so why not take them? Or at least specials.

 

As for Sicarius... he's actually fairly solid for a Captain, having 3 Relics for example. But I doubt I'd take him simply because I think I'd quite enjoy other characters (like a Chaplain). But I think there is potential there.

 

Anyway, what Heavy weapons do folk think Sternguard can use? I'm thinking Heavy Flamers are pretty cool, though Grav Cannons are hard to move away from.

 

2 Multi-meltas alongside 16 Special Issue Bolter shots I'd great too but if using Catechism of Fire you have to fire at the nearest target to benefit which could be difficult. I'd be more inclined to use the Grav Cannons to support the unit's main role.

Edited September 6, 2021 by Captain Idaho

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I see mine as being highly mobile so I’d rather take more combis… two heavy flamers is always good though.

Edited September 6, 2021 by Black Blow Fly

[Karhedron]

Grav Cannons are a really solid all-round choice and their range synergises well with the rest of the squad.

 

The problem with heavy flamers on a unit holding an Objective is that if the enemy decides to ignore them, the investment is wasted. Sticking in a couple of combi-flamers might be good as it gives the squad some good overwatch and extra horde control while leaving the bolter profile for longer ranged work.

Edited September 6, 2021 by Karhedron

[Captain Idaho]

Grav Cannons are a really solid all-round choice and their range synergises well with the rest of the squad.The problem with heavy flamers on a unit holding an Objective is that if the enemy decides to ignore them, the investment is wasted. Sticking in a couple of combi-flamers might be good as it gives the squad some good overwatch and extra horde control while leaving the bolter profile for longer ranged work.

Good advice. Heavy Bolters are cheaper and complement range, but I just can't get away from those sweet sweet Grav Cannons!

[Karhedron]

Good advice. Heavy Bolters are cheaper and complement range, but I just can't get away from those sweet sweet Grav Cannons!

The latest MFM shows the Grav Cannon and Heavy bolter both at 10 points for Sternguard. Makes it seem a bit of a no-brainer really.

[Captain Idaho]

Autocorrect from cheap to cheaper sorry.

 

But yeah they're cheap and have decent range is what I meant to say. But Sternguard are operating closer to the opponent therefore the 24" range isn't the issue.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Grav is great too .

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Here’s what I came up…

 

Sergeant - combi-melta, powerfist

3x veteran - combi-melta

2x veteran - grav cannon

 

There’s six total so they can ride in a Razorback with twin linked assault cannon. This squad should terrify any enemy.

[mel_danes]

BBF - Do you see this squad as an interdiction force, or are they meant as a counter punch unit?

 

Move up, deploy, shoot gives them some reach, Turn 2 and 3 the Gravs just blast away without penalty.

 

Not a squad you send after infantry blobs certainly.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I see them as being quite flexible… you’re right of course about horde… that said the grav is perfect versus Orks now and the twin assault cannon helps in that regard as well.. I think I’d typically play them cagey and try to keep them protected for the psychological pressure versus the opponent - so more of a counter punch. The combis are dirt cheap too. I’m planning to use the Mk III Marines.

Edited September 8, 2021 by Black Blow Fly

[Captain Idaho]

That's a good point - taking combis is a great power multiplier and means you can potentially do without a Chaplain for Catechism of Fire, thus ultimately saving points.

[jonjacob]

I have been running a sternguard unit with 8 bolters, 2 grav cannons and power sword for good measure. Last game they deleted a hell blaster unit in area terrain.
I tend to have them near a captain and Lieutenant with seal oath. sometimes I'll throw in an ancient. Chaplin would be a good investment.

 

i really enjoy this unit but there will be better options out there.

Edited September 8, 2021 by jonjacob

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

My squad is 170 points w/o the transport so I can fit them in pretty easy.