Argel Tal 30k Rules download

[Matcap86]

Had a hunch we might see some downloadable rules for Argel Tal on the FW Website and Lo and behold, twas so:

 

https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/resources/PDF/Downloads/Argel_Tal.pdf

 

[Scammel]

He might come a little unstuck against 2+ saves and the heaviest armour, but that's a brutal, tough package against just about everything else.

 

*Points and clicks Sigismund at him*

[Torvak Kyre]

A little upset that he doesn’t come with the option for the Custodes weapon, considering that he only really had 2 fights without them after going full Gal Vorbak. Would have really given him the goods needed to crack through those 2+ armour saves.

[Charlo]

Shred and Rending is noice.

[Valkyrion]

Don't his stats seem a little big for a 40mm base? 

Are there any other none primarch S5, T5, W4 models only 40mm?

 

It doesn't matter, but where normally models are made bigger by their base, this guy seems smaller.

[Charlo]

Don't his stats seem a little big for a 40mm base? 

Are there any other none primarch S5, T5, W4 models only 40mm?

 

It doesn't matter, but where normally models are made bigger by their base, this guy seems smaller.

 

Yes, the other Gal'Vorbak have similar stats. As do some other special characters

[Closet Skeleton]

Ork Warbosses had those stats on 40mm.

 

He'd probably look better on a 50mm base though.

[SkimaskMohawk]

So uh, he doesn't benefit from lorgars primarch abilities...why? He very much respected him and operated as part of the legion, so it's not that. He isn't controlled by Raum and retains full faculties, so it's not that either. Like I get that the normal squads are missing it, but there's no real reason for him to.

 

Other than that he's pretty good. He's fast, able to beat up on scoring troops, isn't as vulnerable to instant death and imo most importantly unlocks some foc options. Now you can get GV as troops without being stuck in last of the serrated sun. He does have some slight counter synergy as being jump means he can't ride in a transport with the squad he wants to buff with FNP (though he does get it rolling solo). Unfortunately you can't combine it with Zardu for a bomb of daemonic ashen circle, but you can hit up some other blobs with him in the army so that's something.

 

Totally agree on wishing he had the custodes weapons; if he's master of the vakrah Jal that means he's aquired them; he only lost them in the last battle on Nuceria right before he died.

[Kastor Krieg]

*Points and clicks Sigismund at him*

Somebody please Mathhammer this, kthxbai :3 <3

[Scammel]

 

*Points and clicks Sigismund at him*

Somebody please Mathhammer this, kthxbai :3 <3

 

Siggy bodies him in a single round - hits on 3s with a reroll and a half, wounds on 3s, Tal only has a 5++ which he must reroll. If Tal somehow doesn't get the charge, he doesn't even get to strike.

Edited September 10, 2021 by Scammel

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

SIGISMUND FTW

[Spinsanity]

In my Dornian Heresy headcannon, the Crimson Lord is actually the Crimson Fist... Now I want to make Dornian Fists again /sigh

[quasistellar]

Ooh he's a little pricier than I expected, and on a 40mm base.  I was totally going to make a daemon prince out of him but now I'm going to hold off, I think, until I see some in-hand size comparisons.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I’m going to mount him on a 60 mm base and use him as an ALT DP .

[Lautrec the Embraced]

Eh, kinda disapointed, thought they'd have to make him much tougher and deadlier than the dark martyr but not really... said Martyr could wipe the floor with poor Tal any given day with his fist. And you need some serious mental gymnastics to explain Master of the Legion without Legiones Astartes rule...

 

Shred plus rending on s6 is a nice combo for blending infantry but doesn't even come close to be able to tussle with the big boys. Really expected some better weapon like the aforementioned Custodes one or some other paragon blade equivalent instead of a funny named lightning claw.

 

As a silver lining, being jump pack infantry is interesting (though kinda weird, maybe some jump packed possessed will follow? ) and his warlord trait is amazing for any fan of Gal Vorbak. Also seems to be the final nail on the coffin for Last of the Serrated Sun RoW - instead of updating this hellhole of a rite, they just handed the main benefit with zero downsides to Argel here.

Edited September 10, 2021 by Lautrec the Embraced

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I’m glad they didn’t give him a guardian spear or sentinel blade - the heresy … sometimes it just feels so trite and banal how some want us to believe nothing is ever good enough. Seriously it doesn’t make anyone come across as more knowledgeable just salty. Edited September 11, 2021 by Black Blow Fly

[Dosjetka]

That would make you being salty about people being salty, BBF? Hm, quite the concentration of sodium. Food for thought, eh?

 

Definitely would have been nice to see a guardian spear come as an option in the kit, especially for the price they have decided to charge for the model. Still, I think the model looks great as-is and, for once, the studio paint job and photography seems to be doing the sculpt justice.

[Lautrec the Embraced]

I thought that if they gave him a good enough weapon profile (something like ap2), an argument could be made that whether he uses said trite and bland custodes weapon or his souped-up daemon claws is just his preference as the profile would stay the same. I think the model would look ridiculous with a guardian spear but it's nice to have options in the kit...

 

Also fun fact: by making his claw +1 S Argel Tal is actually worse against bog-standard heresy-pattern artificer sergeant than he would be with regular  S - claw.

[Scammel]

With a Custodes weapon (presumably to bump him up to AP2?) I think we'd be looking at a Tal that's a top-tier combat heavyweight and probably a more cost-effective choice than just about any of the big boys due to his natural mobility and staying power - something close to a mini-Primarch. At present he's far better at going through vehicles than anyone stuck with a Paragon Blade (even giving Contemptors pause for thought) and utterly mauls anything without a 2+. His anti-synergistic rules need a tweak (particularly the clash between the wings and the FnP requirements) but there's a host of T4, footslogging named characters who are already quite envious.

Edited September 11, 2021 by Scammel

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

You can always convert.

[Lautrec the Embraced]

 At present he's far better at going through vehicles than anyone stuck with a Paragon Blade (even giving Contemptors pause for thought)

Well, I wouldn't get carried away with contemptors, he still can barely stratch those with Rending and in return he gets on average more than enough S10 strikes to outright delete his 4 wounds with instant death. But against other vehicles he's basically Kheres Assault cannon but in melee so looks like he can be useful in that capacity.

 

About those "envious named characters" I'd proceed with caution as they will likely prevail against Argel in a challenge. Even basic praetor with only Halo and Paragon Blade should win against him (of course with buffs and charges it's impossible to tell) and one with a fist would too if it wasn't for FnP. But it's not all bad, blending through infantry is a breeze and he's choppy enough to win against weaker duelists. Against heavier ones (without ID) he can probably tank a few hits and buy enough time for his FnP Gal Vorbak to eat the rest of the squad.

 

 

[Scammel]

I think it's more the fact that those named characters often have a particular specialism (and it's quite often challenges) that leaves them less cost-effective as generalists. I wouldn't for a moment deny that Sigismund is an extremely powerful character - as discussed above, he does quite comfortably defeat Argel Tal in a single round - but outside of that context he's a somewhat typical A4 footslogging Praetor. Tal looks to be a good, mobile generalist in a way that some of the Paragon Bladers aren't.

Edited September 12, 2021 by Scammel

[SkimaskMohawk]

You guys know there's more to an HQ choice than being a Paragon blade guy and fighting in challenges right? Sigismund might be lethal in a challenge, but...you just decline it. All these Paragon wielding praetors are just less efficient melee choices than powerfist terminators at the end of the day; who cares if he can't blend elite units if he has master of the legion, buffs himself and a variety of units and unlocks troops for gal vorbak? Edited September 11, 2021 by SkimaskMohawk

[Kastor Krieg]

 

 

*Points and clicks Sigismund at him*

Somebody please Mathhammer this, kthxbai :3 <3

 

Siggy bodies him in a single round - hits on 3s with a reroll and a half, wounds on 3s, Tal only has a 5++ which he must reroll. If Tal somehow doesn't get the charge, he doesn't even get to strike.

+ MY MAN. +

[Gorgoff]

You guys know there's more to an HQ choice than being a Paragon blade guy and fighting in challenges right? Sigismund might be lethal in a challenge, but...you just decline it. All these Paragon wielding praetors are just less efficient melee choices than powerfist terminators at the end of the day; who cares if he can't blend elite units if he has master of the legion, buffs himself and a variety of units and unlocks troops for gal vorbak?

You'd get an aneurysm if you had seen the discussion about Argel on discord in no time. :)

I think he is very cool. Gal Vorbak as troops and he buffs an Assault Squad blending lesser troops left and right.

Edited September 11, 2021 by Gorgoff