Saga of the Goethi Slayers (response to GK and Tsons meta)

Jorin Helm-splitter · October 19, 2021

I thought I had already posted this, but I really think adding the pod back in is going to help a lot. It gives you a great way to take the initiative back, and it forces them to make some tough decisions when you go second.

TiguriusX · October 20, 2021

I am wrapping up the initial field tests for this list idea and will be testing a different version soon.

In the Copenhammer league I lost round 3 on Sweep v Sisters

I went first and he had some crazy hot dice for his invulnerable saves all game

Couple of long charges for him and unexpected saves shifted a close game to his favor

The 4th and final round was a forfeit due to time zone conflicts

In the T5S2 GT I have round 5 this weekend v Deathwatch

I am 2-2 currently so I need to take this game to end with a winning record

My thoughts on the initial tests

-Too many bodies to keep safe

I found myself unable to deploy my entire army on many maps because I simply have too many bodies

I started reserving too much and losing field position

-MSU shooting can't be buffed

I liked the versatility of the army but I had no super buff hammer unit to kill something

Facing a 10 man TSon terminator unit at long range exposed my weakness in this area

So I made some changes for draft 2

Arjac and friends

++ Patrol Detachment 0CP (Imperium - Adeptus Astartes - Space Wolves) [62 PL, 9CP, 1,163pts] ++

+ Configuration +

**Chapter Selector**: Space Wolves

Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)

Detachment Command Cost

+ Stratagems +

Relics of the Chapter [-2CP]: 2x Number of Extra Relics

+ Agents of the Imperium +

Callidus Assassin [5 PL, 100pts]: Neural Shredder, Phase Sword, Poison Blades

+ HQ +

Chapter Master [8 PL, -1CP, 175pts]: Bolt pistol, Chapter Command: Chapter Master, Frag & Krak grenades, Hunter, Jump Pack, Lightning Claw, Master of the Codex, Stratagem: Warrior of Legend, The Armour of Russ, Thunder hammer, Warlord

Lieutenants [6 PL, 120pts]

. Arjac Rockfist: Foehammer

+ Troops +

Infiltrator Squad [6 PL, 120pts]

. 4x Infiltrator: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Marksman bolt carbine

. Infiltrator Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Frag & Krak grenades, Marksman bolt carbine

+ Elites +

Wolf Guard [7 PL, 139pts]: Jump Pack

. Wolf Guard: Frag & Krak grenades, Lightning Claw, Storm shield

. Wolf Guard Pack Leader: Frag & Krak grenades, Lightning Claw, Lightning Claw

Wolf Guard [7 PL, 139pts]: Jump Pack

. Wolf Guard: Frag & Krak grenades, Lightning Claw, Storm shield

. Wolf Guard Pack Leader: Frag & Krak grenades, Lightning Claw, Lightning Claw

+ Fast Attack +

Cyberwolves [1 PL, 15pts]

. Cyberwolf: Teeth and claws

Cyberwolves [1 PL, 15pts]

. Cyberwolf: Teeth and claws

+ Heavy Support +

Eradicator Squad [14 PL, 205pts]: Heavy melta rifle

. 2x Eradicator: 2x Bolt pistol

. Eradicator Sgt: Bolt pistol

. Eradicator with MM: Bolt pistol, Multi-melta

Whirlwind [7 PL, 135pts]: Whirlwind vengeance launcher

++ Patrol Detachment -2CP (Imperium - Adeptus Astartes - Space Wolves) [46 PL, -4CP, 835pts] ++

+ Configuration +

**Chapter Selector**: Space Wolves

Detachment Command Cost [-2CP]

+ Stratagems +

Thane of the Retinue [-1CP]

+ HQ +

Primaris Chaplain on Bike [7 PL, -1CP, 140pts]: 5. Recitation of Focus, 6. Canticle of Hate (Aura), Absolver Bolt pistol, Chapter Command: Master of Sanctity, Crozius arcanum, Frag & Krak grenades, Litany of Hate, Rites of War, Stratagem: Hero of the Chapter, The Wulfen Stone, Twin Bolt rifle

+ Troops +

Infiltrator Squad [6 PL, 120pts]

. 4x Infiltrator: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Marksman bolt carbine

. Infiltrator Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Frag & Krak grenades, Marksman bolt carbine

+ Elites +

Company Ancient [4 PL, 75pts]: Astartes Chainsword, Frag & Krak grenades, Teeth of Terra

Wulfen [8 PL, 157pts]

. Wulfen Pack Leader: Wulfen Frost claws

. 2x Wulfen w/ thunder hammer & storm shield: 2x Storm Shield, 2x Thunder Hammer

. 2x Wulfen w/ Wulfen frost claws: 2x Wulfen Frost claws

+ Fast Attack +

Skyclaws [6 PL, 100pts]

. Skyclaw: Astartes Chainsword, Bolt pistol, Frag & Krak grenades, Jump Pack

. Skyclaw Pack Leader: Astartes Chainsword, Bolt pistol, Frag & Krak grenades, Jump Pack

+ Heavy Support +

Long Fangs [11 PL, 173pts]: Armorium Cherub

. Long Fang: Bolt pistol, Frag & Krak grenades, Grav-cannon

. Long Fang: Bolt pistol, Frag & Krak grenades, Multi-melta

. Long Fang Pack Leader: Astartes Chainsword, Frag & Krak grenades, Morkai's Teeth Bolts

. . Boltgun and Bolt Pistol: Bolt pistol, Boltgun

+ Dedicated Transport +

Drop Pod [4 PL, 70pts]: Storm bolter

++ Total: [108 PL, 5CP, 1,998pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe (https://battlescribe.net)

The core of the list is basically the same

Big change is removing the suppressors + eliminators

I replaced them with a LF DP of 4 grav + 1 MM + cherub

I brought the company ancient back as well for random firing on death

Small changes

-I changed back to original SW b/c I want to play with Arjac (I used a GW voucher and finally got to add him to my collection)

-I upgraded the whirlwind to see if I can actually kill things

-Gave the CM a TH/LC combo just for funnsies

-Removed the reliquary of gathalmor and swapped to the wulfen stone

-Had to downgrade a WG unit to skyclaws to save points

TiguriusX · October 21, 2021

Copenhammer 8

Round 1 v TSons

Map-Surround and Destroy

My army

++ Patrol Detachment 0CP (Imperium - Adeptus Astartes - Space Wolves) [62 PL, 9CP, 1,163pts] ++

+ Configuration +

**Chapter Selector**: Space Wolves

Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)

Detachment Command Cost

+ Stratagems +

Relics of the Chapter [-2CP]: 2x Number of Extra Relics

+ Agents of the Imperium +

Callidus Assassin [5 PL, 100pts]: Neural Shredder, Phase Sword, Poison Blades

+ HQ +

Chapter Master [8 PL, -1CP, 175pts]: Bolt pistol, Chapter Command: Chapter Master, Frag & Krak grenades, Hunter, Jump Pack, Lightning Claw, Master of the Codex, Stratagem: Warrior of Legend, The Armour of Russ, Thunder hammer, Warlord

Lieutenants [6 PL, 120pts]

. Arjac Rockfist: Foehammer

+ Troops +

Infiltrator Squad [6 PL, 120pts]

. 4x Infiltrator: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Marksman bolt carbine

. Infiltrator Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Frag & Krak grenades, Marksman bolt carbine

+ Elites +

Wolf Guard [7 PL, 139pts]: Jump Pack

. Wolf Guard: Frag & Krak grenades, Lightning Claw, Storm shield

. Wolf Guard Pack Leader: Frag & Krak grenades, Lightning Claw, Lightning Claw

Wolf Guard [7 PL, 139pts]: Jump Pack

. Wolf Guard: Frag & Krak grenades, Lightning Claw, Storm shield

. Wolf Guard Pack Leader: Frag & Krak grenades, Lightning Claw, Lightning Claw

+ Fast Attack +

Cyberwolves [1 PL, 15pts]

. Cyberwolf: Teeth and claws

Cyberwolves [1 PL, 15pts]

. Cyberwolf: Teeth and claws

+ Heavy Support +

Eradicator Squad [14 PL, 205pts]: Heavy melta rifle

. 2x Eradicator: 2x Bolt pistol

. Eradicator Sgt: Bolt pistol

. Eradicator with MM: Bolt pistol, Multi-melta

Whirlwind [7 PL, 135pts]: Whirlwind vengeance launcher

++ Patrol Detachment -2CP (Imperium - Adeptus Astartes - Space Wolves) [46 PL, -4CP, 835pts] ++

+ Configuration +

**Chapter Selector**: Space Wolves

Detachment Command Cost [-2CP]

+ Stratagems +

Thane of the Retinue [-1CP]

+ HQ +

Primaris Chaplain on Bike [7 PL, -1CP, 140pts]: 5. Recitation of Focus, 6. Canticle of Hate (Aura), Absolver Bolt pistol, Chapter Command: Master of Sanctity, Crozius arcanum, Frag & Krak grenades, Litany of Hate, Rites of War, Stratagem: Hero of the Chapter, The Wulfen Stone, Twin Bolt rifle

+ Troops +

Infiltrator Squad [6 PL, 120pts]

. 4x Infiltrator: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Marksman bolt carbine

. Infiltrator Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Frag & Krak grenades, Marksman bolt carbine

+ Elites +

Company Ancient [4 PL, 75pts]: Astartes Chainsword, Frag & Krak grenades, Teeth of Terra

Wulfen [8 PL, 157pts]

. Wulfen Pack Leader: Wulfen Frost claws

. 2x Wulfen w/ thunder hammer & storm shield: 2x Storm Shield, 2x Thunder Hammer

. 2x Wulfen w/ Wulfen frost claws: 2x Wulfen Frost claws

+ Fast Attack +

Skyclaws [6 PL, 100pts]

. Skyclaw: Astartes Chainsword, Bolt pistol, Frag & Krak grenades, Jump Pack

. Skyclaw Pack Leader: Astartes Chainsword, Bolt pistol, Frag & Krak grenades, Jump Pack

+ Heavy Support +

Long Fangs [11 PL, 173pts]: Armorium Cherub

. Long Fang: Bolt pistol, Frag & Krak grenades, Grav-cannon

. Long Fang: Bolt pistol, Frag & Krak grenades, Multi-melta

. Long Fang Pack Leader: Astartes Chainsword, Frag & Krak grenades, Morkai's Teeth Bolts

. . Boltgun and Bolt Pistol: Bolt pistol, Boltgun

+ Dedicated Transport +

Drop Pod [4 PL, 70pts]: Storm bolter

++ Total: [108 PL, 5CP, 1,998pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe (https://battlescribe.net)

His army

++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Chaos - Thousand Sons) [102 PL, 9CP, 16 Cabal Points, 2,000pts] ++

+ Configuration +

Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)

Cults of the Legion: Cult of Duplicity

Detachment Command Cost

+ Stratagems +

Sorcerous Arcana [-2CP]: 2x Additional Relics

+ No Force Org Slot +

Sorcerer [5 PL, 2 Cabal Points, 90pts]: 12. Glamour of Tzeentch, 22. Weaver of Fates, Force stave, Frag & Krak grenades, Inferno Bolt Pistol, Smite, The Prism of Echoes

+ HQ +

Ahriman [10 PL, 3 Cabal Points, 180pts]: 11. Gaze of Hate, 11. Tzeentch's Firestorm, 21. Presage, Black Staff of Ahriman, Frag & Krak grenades, Inferno Bolt Pistol, Smite

. Disc of Tzeentch: Disc blades

Exalted Sorcerer [8 PL, 3 Cabal Points, 155pts]: 13. Doombolt, 23. Temporal Surge, Egleighen's Orrery, Force stave, Frag & Krak grenades, Inferno Bolt Pistol, Master Misinformator, Prosperine khopesh, Rehani, Smite, Warlord

. Disc of Tzeentch: Disc blades

Infernal Master [5 PL, 2 Cabal Points, 90pts]: 33. Perplex, 5. Glimpse of Eternity, 6. Malefic Maelstrom, Force stave, Inferno Bolt Pistol, Umbralefic Crystal

+ Troops +

Rubric Marines [6 PL, 2 Cabal Points, 115pts]: Icon of Flame

. Aspiring Sorcerer: 21. Temporal Manipulation, Force stave, Inferno Bolt Pistol, Smite

. 4x Rubric Marine w/ inferno boltgun: 4x Inferno boltgun

Rubric Marines [6 PL, 2 Cabal Points, 115pts]: Icon of Flame

. Aspiring Sorcerer: 13. Doombolt, Force stave, Inferno Bolt Pistol, Smite

. 4x Rubric Marine w/ inferno boltgun: 4x Inferno boltgun

Thousand Sons Cultists [9 PL, 135pts]

. Cultist Champion: Autogun

. 26x Cultist w/ autogun: 26x Autogun

+ Elites +

Chaos Leviathan Dreadnought [13 PL, -1CP, 255pts]: 3x Hellforged hunter-killer missile, 2x Storm cannon

. Two twin volkite calivers: 2x Twin volkite caliver

Scarab Occult Terminators [20 PL, 1 Cabal Points, 430pts]: 2x Hellfyre missile rack

. Scarab Occult Sorcerer: 31. Empyric Guidance, Force stave, Inferno combi-bolter, Smite

. 7x Terminator: 7x Inferno combi-bolter, 7x Prosperine khopesh

. Terminator w/ Heavy Weapon: Prosperine khopesh, Soulreaper cannon

Scarab Occult Terminators [10 PL, 1 Cabal Points, 205pts]

. Scarab Occult Sorcerer: 12. Twist of Fate, Force stave, Inferno combi-bolter, Smite

. 3x Terminator: 3x Inferno combi-bolter, 3x Prosperine khopesh

. Terminator w/ Heavy Weapon: Prosperine khopesh, Soulreaper cannon

+ Fast Attack +

Chaos Spawn [5 PL, 115pts]

. 5x Chaos Spawn: 5x Hideous mutations

Chaos Spawn [5 PL, 115pts]

. 5x Chaos Spawn: 5x Hideous mutations

++ Total: [16 Cabal Points, 102 PL, 9CP, 2,000pts] ++

Pregame & Deployment

No pregame prep for this.

I woke up and saw the league had launched and my opponent was asking if I was free. Said sure why not and immediately jumped into a game at 430am (I woke up earlier than normal for no reason)

I spend 2 CP and swap callidus for a culexus

I pick

Stranglehold

Abhor

No prisoners (didn't know what to do with this pick...debating banners)

He picks

Stranglehold

Banners

Mutate landscape

I win roll for deploy and make him go first

Reserve

DP with LF and ancient

Eradicators

WG1

culexus

arjac

I win the roll for deployment and make him go first

I have no battle plan and just randomly drop what I have

BATREP

I win the roll for first turn...didn't really want it

He uses his tricky move to remove 5 man terminator and place in deep strike

CM fails to generate CP

I run a wolf to touch objective and score strangehold

Whirlwind fires and he uses stratagem in defense to reduce damage by 1

I get 1 hit and 1 wound...he fails 2+ save to take 1 damage

His turn

He moves both spawns up

Buffs spawn on right and warp times it into my wolf to kill it

He also casts a spell that reduces my whirlwind to short range. I can't reach the entire board anymore

He scores stranglehold

Turn 2

The spawn are in warptime charge range. I realize my CM is in a real crappy spot and can't help

My whirlwind is also in a bad spot and can't make them fight last

I decide the only way to stop the spawn on left flank is the DP

CM generates a CP

DP comes in and rolls horribly against spawn

I have the culexus in front of the DP to eat psychic and force him to shoot me and activate ancient

Wulfen and CM only kill 4/5 spawn in melee (despite using executioners reroll all for Wulfen)

Spawn does 4 wounds back to CM (needed a CP to prevent dying...rolled 2-2-2 originally and was sweating bullets)

I get the objectives and score stranglehold

I have also setup my next round of reinforcements to attack

Arjac and eradicators need to kill terminators or a dread when they arrive

Time to eat his counter attack

His turn

He finds the perfect spot to snipe CM with smite and shoot my infiltrators on far right

He makes it undeniable and kills CM (doh)

His spawn on left fail charge b/c difficult terrain (needed an 8)

His terminators make a LONG charge into my whirlwind to steal a point from me...

This sucks...those stupid terminators are OBSEC

This will cost me primary scoring

11 cultists do nothing to my assassin

3 do nothing to ancient

I kill 1 cultist total with all my counter attacks

Ancient got 1...yay

He made all his 4++

Turn 3

I have to make an all or nothing play and remove his damn terminators from my backfield

I desperate breakout the whirlwind and fall back with infiltrators so I can shoot the terminators

Arjac and eradicators drop on a suicide mission with LOS

Eradicators fire killing 4/5 (lose LOS so no double fire after)

Skyclaws will need to charge in later or he can do a ton of damage with his heavy weapon

Arjac kills spawn in middle with hammer to clear him off objective (this made us both laugh)

DP kills 2 cultists with bolters

Infiltrators and WG krak kill his 2 spawn

Chaplain and friends all go into his cultists...I only leave a CW in rear to hold objective

I make all charges into his cultists

Skyclaws make charge into terminator and I activate them first

Skyclaws use reroll everything and kill last terminator

Chaplain kills 1/5 cultists

Infiltrators kill 2/6 cultists

WG get wulfen stone and 7 bonus attacks

Kill 16 cultists

5/27 remain alive

They do 0 wounds back

LF kill 3 more with their attacks

2/27 alive

They roll 1 and pass morale...

That 4++ was amazing value

Good news is I have OBSEC chaplain so take point back for now

His turn

Ahriman does 6 MW with 2d3 smite (max rolls...ouch)

Kills 3/5 WG

Ahriman does witchfire for 2 more MW and kills another WG (1 left)

Doombolt into arjac for 3

Perils on smite and takes 3MW instead of killing arjac

Leviathan shooting kills Arjac with volkite (rolled 2 6's for MW)

Leviathan shooting kills eradicators with all HK and SC shots

Terminators put 12 shots into WG and finish him off

Terminators put everything else into infiltrators and kill 5/5 easy

Terminators fail their 2 attempts at 9" charge

Turn 4

WW hits character with 3 but he makes all 3 saves

LF kill 1 terminator with grav hitting on 2 wounding on 3

He made 6/8 4++ saves

Skyclaws get reroll all hits/wounds and drop 23 wounds on rubric

He fails enough saves to die

He interrupts and kills 2/5 WG

3 WG kill him in return

Ancient failed his 7" charge and is stuck in no mans land

His turn

He teleports rubric to shoot wolf and remove me from rear

He warp time walks his terminators onto objective to steal #4

Leviathan kills 4/5 sky claws and 2/3 WG

His terminators charge using the ancient as a sling shot and stretch to touch both objectives and OBSEC steals them away...I hate those terminators

Turn 5

Not much to do...I try to get points

I kill sorceror top right with WG and skyclaw survivors

Send assassin after ahriman and shoot him with artillery

Only do 4/5 wounds to him (doh)

Final & Recap

73-87

SW defeat

Getting better against TSons but still lost

OBSEC from his terminators cost me big this game

The 9" charge turn 2 that tied up my whirlwind

The turn 3 touch of objectives after I removed chaplain and OBSEC bubble

I think sending my my DP turn 2 was the big mistake. I didn't need it there and I forgot the entire point of the unit. It is supposed to be a counter attack unit to remove ranged threats (like terminators)

Throwing it down against spawn (bad target for the grav needing 4's to wound and only doing 1 damage to a 4 wound model) was not a wise usage of them. The MM could have made short work of him but I just didn't get lucky.

What I did like was my experiment with a single culexis as my only dedicated anti psyker.

TSons don't have lots of shooting. By placing the culexus in front of the forces I drop down I am daring him to kill a single character with his limited shoot resources and setting up a good trade. If I had kept my DP in reserve I could have capitalized on that.

Something I will have to practice more of in the future

I did like the sky claws getting executioner buffed every time. They were like discount WG and made me smile

Jorin Helm-splitter · October 22, 2021

I'm always a little surprised to see full squads of spawn. From a raw stats perspective I would think they would be more popular, but it seems like most TS players use them more like cyberwolves.

The changes to your list did seem to have an impact though, and it was a lot closer than your other games with TS.

TiguriusX · December 6, 2021

Haven't been playing much but I did have some updates.

Played the new meta Drukhari list for a team tournament match and got obliterated.

They take Talos and Cronos and have high T and high wounds with invulnerables and a 5++ FNP

They also have -1 damage ability

The ability to tank can spike and ruin plans

I sent wulfen in with keen senses and savage strike (hitting on 2s with THs and wounding on 2s)

8 TH attacks resulted in 10 TH wounds (double exploding 6s yay)

However...after the saves and FNPs I killed 1 Talos and put a bunch of wounds on the other (20 potential wounds were reduced to 12 total)

They are some big tanky bois and can also be healed for flat 3 by their Haemonculus fleshcraft support characters

I think it made them harder to kill than a standard knight

Keep an eye out for that new Drukhari flavor

List I faced

++ Patrol Detachment 0CP (Aeldari - Drukhari) [34 PL, 12CP, 610pts] ++

+ Configuration +

Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)

Detachment Command Cost

Obsession

. Custom Coven: Dark Technomancers (All-Consuming)

+ HQ +

Drazhar [8 PL, 145pts]: Hatred Eternal, Warlord

+ Troops +

Wracks [3 PL, 40pts]: As Detachment (Coven)

. Acothyst: Wrack Blade

. 4x Wracks: 4x Wrack Blade

Wracks [3 PL, 40pts]: As Detachment (Coven)

. Acothyst: Wrack Blade

. 4x Wracks: 4x Wrack Blade

+ Heavy Support +

Cronos [12 PL, 235pts]: As Detachment (Coven)

. Cronos: Spirit Vortex

. Cronos

Cronos [8 PL, 150pts]: As Detachment (Coven)

. Cronos

++ Spearhead Detachment -3CP (Aeldari - Drukhari) [86 PL, -4CP, 1,390pts] ++

+ Configuration +

Detachment Command Cost [-3CP]

Obsession

. Custom Coven: Artists of the Flesh (All-Consuming)

+ HQ +

Haemonculus [4 PL, -1CP, 70pts]: As Detachment (Coven), Master Regenerist, Stratagem: Tolerated Ambition, The Helm of Spite

Haemonculus [4 PL, 70pts]: As Detachment (Coven)

+ Elites +

Grotesques [12 PL, 175pts]: As Detachment (Coven)

. Grotesque w/ Monstrous Cleaver

. Grotesque w/ Monstrous Cleaver Grotesques [12 PL, 175pts]: As Detachment (Coven)

. Grotesque w/ Monstrous Cleaver

+ Heavy Support +

Talos [18 PL, 300pts]: As Detachment (Coven)