To start a BA army nor not? (from "scraps")

[XeonDragon]

Hey all

 

So, I usually play RG successors (custom paint scheme, bone and black) but have sometimes run my army as BA successors (born heroes and whirlwind of rage). Over an extended period of lockdown and with a lack of game, I have been reflecting on whether I should start a new a brand-new pure-BA or FT army. In part because my RG successor army is virtually finished (and I genuinely mean that, apart from 1 more dreadnought and 3 attack bikes it is done, I have just over 5k built and painted, enough variation to not need to buy the latest hotness) and in part because RG and RG successors are just in a world on pain right now, and my FLGS leagues (and the others at other FLGSs within an easy drive) are super-competitive. I've had more success when I run BA successors, but for whatever reason, it feels weird running my current models as something other than RG successors.  

 

I'm mindful on not over-extending the demands that hobby time places on my limited free time (young kids and all), and that I am also slowly building and painting a Tyrranid army at the moment. So I am aware that building 2 armies slows things down.

 

Thing is, I have a ton of built/undercoated models ("scraps") that I think might make for a decent back-bone to a small (2-3k total) BA or FT army. So, I wanted to get some thoughts on the following:

 

1. Is it wise to be building 2 armies on the go?

2. If I was only interested in painting to "battle ready" standard, how do you find contrast paints? (e.g. BA/FT red, Black Templar, basilicanum grey contrast paint etc.)

3. Based from the list below, do you think I have the starting of a decent BA or FT army, and what would you think would be the more "competitive" option? 

 

What I have NIB/built/undercoated is as follows:

 

• Troops: 2 x 10 incursors; 10 intercessors; as many tactical marines (including with special or heavy weapons) as I need/want
• Heavy: 3 eliminators; Predator; 3 eradicators
• Elite "troops": 6 blade guard veterans; 3 flamer aggressors, 6 boltstorm aggressors; firstborn apothecary (x2); 5 x relic terminators with chain-fists and combo-bolters; 20 x  regular terminators (sword on sergeant x 4, 3 with chain fists, 12 with power-fists, 3 with assault cannons, 2 with heavy flamers, can use 3rd-party bits to give CML on up to 2)
• Elite dreadnoughts etc: Venerable dreadnought, Invictor Tactical war suit, Redemptor Dreadnought 
• HQ: Primaris chaplain on a bike; Bike captain (currently with thunder hammer and shield, but could kit-bash basically any weapon); Firstborn librarian with (x2) - could add jump pack; 1 terminator captain with sword
• Transports: Rhino, Drop-Pod

  

I also have enough left-over bits from tactical, devastator, assault, vanguard veteran and other kits along with 3rd-party bits such as weapons, jump-packs, wings, shields and so forth to make probably at least 20 first-born marine units such as company veterans, VGVs, sanguinary guard, first-born characters (jump captains, lieutenants etc).

 

Anyway, let me know what you think   

Edited September 12, 2021 by XeonDragon

[Tokugawa]

Under 9th codex supplements systems, most marine list share ~70% similar components, especially on "competitive" stage(BGV,Vanguard,Redemptor,etc). Maybe the only exception is DA double-wings.

 

So it is easy to own one marine army, but play many chapters today.

[Majkhel]

1. Is it wise to be building 2 armies on the go?

2. If I was only interested in painting to "battle ready" standard, how do you find contrast paints? (e.g. BA/FT red, Black Templar, basilicanum grey contrast paint etc.)

3. Based from the list below, do you think I have the starting of a decent BA or FT army, and what would you think would be the more "competitive" option? 

1. Is it wise? It really depends on you, right? What is your attitude, how much time do you have, how much time to want to spend, how much pressure are you feeling, how do you motivate yourself, etc. 

For me personally building 2 armies at once means I actually build one. The second one I treat as way of respite and motivation replenishment. However this is because of goals I set for myself (1. Complete a full BA 5th Company). But I could have definitely set it like: paint a squad for one army and then paint a squad for the other. It's the question of what works for you.

 

2. I can only theorise as I'm using contrasts to bump some colours and not as a main tool. So theoretically it's perfectly doable. I believe choosing the right undercoat for the job would be essential (like more grey/desaturated for FTs and more warm for BAs). Other than that it will be really important to learn contrast-related brush control because of contrasts' pooling tendency, transparency and interactions between colours if one is not precise enough during application.

 

 

3. I think you have quite a solid backbone for any SM army. You would obviously need some more melee specialists than just BGVets and termies to better utilise the Assault doctrine

 

I'd say - go for it :D

[Xenith]

The question is should you start a Blood Angels Army. In short, the answer is Yes. They're the best Chapter by far, with the best background, attributes, Primarch, and more subjectively, colour scheme.

1. Is it wise to be building 2 armies on the go?

2. If I was only interested in painting to "battle ready" standard, how do you find contrast paints? (e.g. BA/FT red, Black Templar, basilicanum grey contrast paint etc.)

3. Based from the list below, do you think I have the starting of a decent BA or FT army, and what would you think would be the more "competitive" option?

1. That's entirely up to you. I don't really class armies as 'finished' in the same way as you, and I'm simultaneously painting Blood Angels, Thousand Sons, Tyranids, Adeptus Titanicus, Terrain, then trying to finish my Blood Bowl Team, as well as work out how to get some more Eldar painted. I have a lot of armies, and like to paint what I feel inspired to paint...then I'll do something like 500-1000pts of that before moving to another army.

2. This is a BA contrast test marine I did:

From here: http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269697-xba-1st-co-reinforcements-finished-primaris-mephiston/?p=5639054

It worked better than I was expecting. I think this was two thinned coats over wraithbone, and being very controlled with it, followed by an Evil Sunz highlight. It's definitely a method I would use to paint some more models. Bear in mind it gives a slight satiny finish, so any painting over the top will look different. I'd restrict it to a very fine highlight, or glaze with a thin coat of contrast, drybrush highlights, then go over the model again with the thinned contrast.

3. BA are space marines firts and foremost, and they make use of all things available to Space Marines.

• Troops: 2 x 10 incursors; 10 intercessors; as many tactical marines (including with special or heavy weapons) as I need/want

Incursors are always good. I'd go 5/5 incursors to infiltrators. Intercesors with assault bolters will be great, moving 8 - 13" per turn and shooting.

• Heavy: 3 eliminators; Predator; 3 eradicators

Eliminators are decent now, so are eradicators.

• Elite "troops": 6 blade guard veterans; 3 flamer aggressors, 6 boltstorm aggressors; firstborn apothecary (x2); 5 x relic terminators with chain-fists and combo-bolters; 20 x regular terminators (sword on sergeant x 4, 3 with chain fists, 12 with power-fists, 3 with assault cannons, 2 with heavy flamers, can use 3rd-party bits to give CML on up to 2)

All of these are decent now. Bladeguard great with BA rules, all others are just plain decent, especially going with oath of moment or something to hold the middle. Apothecaries become sang priests and support Aggressors, BG or Terms. I'd try and make a unit of THSS terms also.

• Elite dreadnoughts etc: Venerable dreadnought, Invictor Tactical war suit, Redemptor Dreadnought

Dreads are just good choices.

• HQ: Primaris chaplain on a bike; Bike captain (currently with thunder hammer and shield, but could kit-bash basically any weapon); Firstborn librarian with (x2) - could add jump pack; 1 terminator captain with sword

Decent

• Transports: Rhino, Drop-Pod

These need firstborn units, which you don't seem to have many of.

If you want more BA flair, get some Sanguinary guard for offence, and durable offence get 10 vanguard with magnetised weapons (though you can probably glue storm shields on).

My only concern is:

I have been reflecting on whether I should start a new a brand-new pure-BA or FT army... because RG and RG successors are just in a world on pain right now, and my FLGS leagues...are super-competitive. I've had more success when I run BA successors, but for whatever reason, it feels weird running my current models as something other than RG successors.

If you're looking at starting BA to get a competitive edge, you might be disappointed. As one of the first codexes out the gate, we were decent/top for a month or so until Death Guard got released, followed by Dark Eldar. The abilities of these codexes to shut down BA abilities, combined with preemptive nerfs to outriders, Eradicators, etc, mean that marines in general are suffering. If you look at a lot of 'top tier' BA lists, they spam Sanguinary guard, probably the best unit in the book, and a Sanguinary priest (Apocs are good, adding a jump pack makes them great), otherwise very little actual BA specific units make it in there (which is a massive failing of the book in general).

Edited September 13, 2021 by Xenith

[XeonDragon]

Thanks for the advice guys, and the sample models :) 

 

I am still torn between pure BA, FT or a BA-successor with BH and WOR... but.... leaning towards taking the plunge as I think painting an army is good respite from getting bored with another one :D

[Xenith]

I mess around with some contrast paints and Fleshtearers in my log also, if you want to see the results:

 

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269697-xba-1st-co-reinforcements-finished-primaris-mephiston/?p=5493451

[Karhedron]

1. Is it wise to be building 2 armies on the go?

2. If I was only interested in painting to "battle ready" standard, how do you find contrast paints? (e.g. BA/FT red, Black Templar, basilicanum grey contrast paint etc.)

3. Based from the list below, do you think I have the starting of a decent BA or FT army, and what would you think would be the more "competitive" option?

1. I have 3 armies on the go as well as 3 kids so it can be done. Sometimes it is nice to take a break and play something different.

 

2. I have had mixed experience with contrast paints. Black Templar just comes out looking like watery black when I used rather than natural shading. Flesh Tearer Red however looks very good. I find the Contrast paints work better on more textured surfaces (like Nids) than on smooth armoured surfaces. Having said I have only dabbled with Contrast.

 

3. I don't know about competitive. I don't think there is a big power difference between different Chapters. Certainly not as much as between Marines and other factions. Having said that, my Blood Angels have been doing very well in 9th edition (with the caveat that my local meta is fairly casual).

 

 

• Troops: 2 x 10 incursors; 10 intercessors; as many tactical marines (including with special or heavy weapons) as I need/want
• Heavy: 3 eliminators; Predator; 3 eradicators
• Elite "troops": 6 blade guard veterans; 3 flamer aggressors, 6 boltstorm aggressors; firstborn apothecary (x2); 5 x relic terminators with chain-fists and combo-bolters; 20 x  regular terminators (sword on sergeant x 4, 3 with chain fists, 12 with power-fists, 3 with assault cannons, 2 with heavy flamers, can use 3rd-party bits to give CML on up to 2)
• Elite dreadnoughts etc: Venerable dreadnought, Invictor Tactical war suit, Redemptor Dreadnought 
• HQ: Primaris chaplain on a bike; Bike captain (currently with thunder hammer and shield, but could kit-bash basically any weapon); Firstborn librarian with (x2) - could add jump pack; 1 terminator captain with sword
• Transports: Rhino, Drop-Pod

You have plenty of good stuff to work with there. Incursors work well with Red Thirst and can pose a legitimate melee threat, particularly when Savage Echoes kick in.

Eradicators are good, Eliminators can be OK but the Predators are trash tier in 9th sadly.

Blade Guard Veterans absolutely rock with Red Thirst, run your Apothecary with them (Cheif Apothecary and Selfless Healer) and they will be very hard to kill. The Biker Chaplain can buff them with Litany of Hate to ensure a LOT of hits. Might be worth getting them an Impulsor to ride in which case you might need to add a Primaris Apothecary so he can fit in the Transport. A unit of 5 seems to be the sweet spot in my experience.

Dreadnoughts are definitely solid in this edition. I tend to favour Multimeltas on Firstborn Dreads. The Redemptor is great with either plasma or gatling loadouts.

The Bike Chaplain is great and worth upgrading with both Master of Sanctity and Commanding Oratory so you can chant 2 litanies per turn on a 2+.

The Bike Captain is also solid with TH being the best weapon option available to him. SS is worth taking, especially if you are wearing Relic Armour for a 1+ save. The other option is a Combi-melta which can be fired in addition to the Bike's guns.

 

I would suggest the Relic Deathmask for one of the biker characters as it is a bit of an under-rated gem in my opinion. -1 to hit the Character in melee is good protection and the ability to turn of enemy ObjSec is a really valuable. In fact if you combine it with Rites of War you have a fast moving, durable Character who can flip any Objective in the late game.

 

It is probably worth considering some jump melee infantry to back up the Bladgeguard Vets and we are spoiled for choice. Sanguinary Guard emphasize elite hitting power so may overlap with the BGVs somewhat. VanVets with Shield and Claw loadout are fast, durable and very effective chaff clearers. Death Company are a bit of a glass cannon but are one of our signature units and open up interesting stratagems such as Forlorn Fury.

 

I have included a link to a concept army I am considering leverages the deployment tricks of Phobos units with the stratagems of the Death Company to catch out the enemy. You would need to a Phobos Character to your roster along with some Death Company but most of the other units are interchangeable. For example Dreads and/or Devastators could replace my Inceptors and Attack Bikes for fire support. http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371391-death-and-deceit-1500-points-of-blood-angels/?do=findComment&comment=5733669

Edited September 14, 2021 by Karhedron

[XeonDragon]

Thanks guys, lots to think about :)