More Sisters Models

[Slasher956]

thing is ... it does make a bit of sense...if....

Covid impacted the 40K codex release putting them back about 6 months, so with KT guys being a different team they where always going for GenCon preview release so not delayed as badly. This would mean that you'd have about a year (give or take) between dex release and KT release

IF

[tvih]

I did take COVID into account with my statement. Both will have been in the planning stages at similar times, so any decision to release them "separately enough" for them not to be included in the Codex is very deliberate. But after all OML even got a supplement earlier than this, so they really like spreading the rules all over the place. And why not, since so many people are more than happy enough to pay premium for paperweights that are also made from paper.

[ATPete]

 I think the shoulder pads look very weird just floating on their shoulders, otherwise I like them. Terrible colour scheme.

[Beams]

Guess work here...

4+ Sv

4+ BS

4+ WS

 

auto pistol & CCW, 9-19 @ 6pts each

Novietes may be upgraded

up to half of noviates may take a special combat weapon from the following list:

    Maul, power sword, power sword (pair), repentia chainsword, neural whips (pair)

0-1 - may take an imagifier

0-1 may be upgraded with medic rules (gives the unit a 6+ FNP against <S4

 

Sister Sup. has normal BBS sister Sup. stats and weapon options and costs 11pts

 

sacred rights, acts of faith, sheild of faith ... NO <ORDER> keywork

 

If they dont have the sacred rights rule then the Sis. Sup will need a rule stopping her from taking the St.Sabastian relic

 

If you can't equip an autogun for all of them, I see them being 5pts each, and I also don't see them being 9-19 more like 5-15, but otherwise, I think you are spot on.

[Blurf]

Guess work here...

4+ Sv

4+ BS

4+ WS

 

auto pistol & CCW, 9-19 @ 6pts each

Novietes may be upgraded

up to half of noviates may take a special combat weapon from the following list:

    Maul, power sword, power sword (pair), repentia chainsword, neural whips (pair)

0-1 - may take an imagifier

0-1 may be upgraded with medic rules (gives the unit a 6+ FNP against <S4

 

Sister Sup. has normal BBS sister Sup. stats and weapon options and costs 11pts

 

sacred rights, acts of faith, sheild of faith ... NO <ORDER> keywork

 

If they dont have the sacred rights rule then the Sis. Sup will need a rule stopping her from taking the St.Sabastian relic

If they're min 10 no one will ever take them.

 

If they're min 5 no one will ever take battle sisters.

 

Why would they be BS 4+ btw? WS 4+ sure but they should absolutely be better than guardsman, even as novices.

[tvih]

I think the shoulder pads look very weird just floating on their shoulders, otherwise I like them. Terrible colour scheme.

Well, it does look strange at first considering the power armor models we've gotten accustomed to, but it would be strapped/tied into whatever's under it - likely the upper over-shoulder part of the "bodice" (under which I imagine they still have armor, just like power armored Sisters do) or to whatever garment it is that the sleeves belong to as well (a gambeson equivalent, I'd imagine). Historically that's how it's done, the ties just aren't visible here.

 

Personally I don't mind the color scheme since I like browns, though the bluish pants are indeed a bit reminiscent of skinny jeans or leggings. I'm already contemplating how I'll paint the models whenever I get them, since technically before their vows they don't belong to an Order yet, I believe... could be I'll do the brown - though darker, which I considered for my Order already for all cloth - and black, or could be I'll do them the way my Order is anyway.

 

Why would they be BS 4+ btw? WS 4+ sure but they should absolutely be better than guardsman, even as novices.

A guardsman is still a highly trained soldier (not to be confused with conscripts and planetary militia), and Sisters are still in the end just unaugmented humans (bar for the power armor of full Sisters). As Novices they still haven't finished their training (not that it ends when they reach Sister status either). All in all 4+ would be appropriate.

Edited September 17, 2021 by tvih

[Blurf]

 

Guess work here...

4+ Sv

4+ BS

4+ WS

 

auto pistol & CCW, 9-19 @ 6pts each

Novietes may be upgraded

up to half of noviates may take a special combat weapon from the following list:

    Maul, power sword, power sword (pair), repentia chainsword, neural whips (pair)

0-1 - may take an imagifier

0-1 may be upgraded with medic rules (gives the unit a 6+ FNP against <S4

 

Sister Sup. has normal BBS sister Sup. stats and weapon options and costs 11pts

 

sacred rights, acts of faith, sheild of faith ... NO <ORDER> keywork

 

If they dont have the sacred rights rule then the Sis. Sup will need a rule stopping her from taking the St.Sabastian relic

 

If you can't equip an autogun for all of them, I see them being 5pts each, and I also don't see them being 9-19 more like 5-15, but otherwise, I think you are spot on.

 

 

Like I said in the previous post, a 5ppm troop minimum 5 models makes regular battle sisters almost completely irrelevant. A 5ppm troop even minimum 10 probably still nearly eliminates battle sisters from the game. The only 2 possible uses for battle sisters if they do that are 1. 20 bricks or 2. AS multimelta platforms. Even then, you COULD spend 75pts for unit of battle sisters with a multimelta OR you could spend 25pts on 5 bodies and put the other 50pts into retributors which are a vastly superior multimelta platform. You COULD spend 250pts on 20 battle sisters OR you could spend 250pts on FIFTY novitiates.

 

A battle sister's BS, WS, S, and T are mostly meaningless as far as why they get included in lists (again, except in argent shroud). Battle sisters are worth points because they A. Are bodies that can sit on objectives. B. Fill Battalions C. Have Obsec. If noviates do all of those things for less than half the cost...why both with battle sisters?

 

A 25pt troop choice represents essentially a free 90pts per battalion (or even crazier 180pts per brigade in an army that can run brigades SUPER well).

 

Think of it this way: would you ever pay 90pts to give 15 novitiates +1 BS and +1SV? No. You'd go out and get a unit of Zephyrim with a plasma pistol and a banner like a normal person.

 

I think the shoulder pads look very weird just floating on their shoulders, otherwise I like them. Terrible colour scheme.

Well, it does look strange at first considering the power armor models we've gotten accustomed to, but it would be strapped/tied into whatever's under it - likely the upper over-shoulder part of the "bodice" (under which I imagine they still have armor, just like power armored Sisters do) or to whatever garment it is that the sleeves belong to as well (a gambeson equivalent, I'd imagine). Historically that's how it's done, the ties just aren't visible here.

 

Personally I don't mind the color scheme since I like browns, though the bluish pants are indeed a bit reminiscent of skinny jeans or leggings. I'm already contemplating how I'll paint the models whenever I get them, since technically before their vows they don't belong to an Order yet, I believe... could be I'll do the brown - though darker, which I considered for my Order already for all cloth - and black, or could be I'll do them the way my Order is anyway.

 

Why would they be BS 4+ btw? WS 4+ sure but they should absolutely be better than guardsman, even as novices.

A guardsman is still a highly trained soldier (not to be confused with conscripts and planetary militia), and Sisters are still in the end just unaugmented humans (bar for the power armor of full Sisters). As Novices they still haven't finished their training (not that it ends when they reach Sister status either). All in all 4+ would be appropriate.

 

Sisters initial training is what Commissars, Inquisitors, and Scions get is it not? A novice sister is still a far superior soldier to the average guardsman.

 

Regardless, if they're a troop that costs less than 9pts per model, their stats are irrelevant, they still break the army open.

Edited September 17, 2021 by Blurf

[L30n1d4s]

What if the Noviates were treated sort of like Pox Walkers are in DG (i.e. you can only take one for every standard Battle Sisters squad that you take)?

 

Then they would not make Battle Sisters irrelevant, but they could still have use as a cheaper option with different wargear/rules?

[tvih]

 

Sisters initial training is what Commissars, Inquisitors, and Scions get is it not? A novice sister is still a far superior soldier to the average guardsman.

 

Regardless, if they're a troop that costs less than 9pts per model, their stats are irrelevant, they still break the army open.

Why do people think so poorly of an average soldier's marksmanship anyway, and think Sisters are some sort of supernatural demigoddesses? And sure, the D6 lacks granularity, but with 3+ you're talking about putting NOVICE Sisters - some of which may barely have had combat training at that time and might not even end up assigned into actual combat roles - at Space Marine level of marksmanship in in-game terms. That'd be just silly when even a full Sister wouldn't really come close, but we deal with it because of said lack of granularity. Doesn't mean everyone should suddenly be "space marines", though.

 

Such things aside, I agree that their cost is sort of a critical deal here, as well as minimum squad size. I half-expect it to be 10 models, but especially if it's 5 and they're much cheaper than regular Sisters... yeah, not many would take the latter in any sort of competitive battle. If I were to guess, I'd put them at 9 points assuming the 4+ WS and save, 8 at the very lowest. I'm unlikely to ever get more than one box of these novices myself regardless of the rules, but then again I'm never an all-in meta guy anyway.

[Dread]

Im liking some of what i hear and looking at what the kommandos and kreig got i think we'll be ok. I Like the models except the head dress part which is ok, i have plenty of heads left from sisters squad boxes. My main grip is do we really need more imperium terrain? I really wanna see some serious xenos terrain, not just poison trees.

[Beams]

 

 

 

 

Guess work here...

4+ Sv

4+ BS

4+ WS

 

auto pistol & CCW, 9-19 @ 6pts each

Novietes may be upgraded

up to half of noviates may take a special combat weapon from the following list:

Maul, power sword, power sword (pair), repentia chainsword, neural whips (pair)

0-1 - may take an imagifier

0-1 may be upgraded with medic rules (gives the unit a 6+ FNP against <S4

 

Sister Sup. has normal BBS sister Sup. stats and weapon options and costs 11pts

 

sacred rights, acts of faith, sheild of faith ... NO <ORDER> keywork

 

If they dont have the sacred rights rule then the Sis. Sup will need a rule stopping her from taking the St.Sabastian relic

If you can't equip an autogun for all of them, I see them being 5pts each, and I also don't see them being 9-19 more like 5-15, but otherwise, I think you are spot on.

Like I said in the previous post, a 5ppm troop minimum 5 models makes regular battle sisters almost completely irrelevant. A 5ppm troop even minimum 10 probably still nearly eliminates battle sisters from the game. The only 2 possible uses for battle sisters if they do that are 1. 20 bricks or 2. AS multimelta platforms. Even then, you COULD spend 75pts for unit of battle sisters with a multimelta OR you could spend 25pts on 5 bodies and put the other 50pts into retributors which are a vastly superior multimelta platform. You COULD spend 250pts on 20 battle sisters OR you could spend 250pts on FIFTY novitiates.

 

A battle sister's BS, WS, S, and T are mostly meaningless as far as why they get included in lists (again, except in argent shroud). Battle sisters are worth points because they A. Are bodies that can sit on objectives. B. Fill Battalions C. Have Obsec. If noviates do all of those things for less than half the cost...why both with battle sisters?

 

A 25pt troop choice represents essentially a free 90pts per battalion (or even crazier 180pts per brigade in an army that can run brigades SUPER well).

 

Think of it this way: would you ever pay 90pts to give 15 novitiates +1 BS and +1SV? No. You'd go out and get a unit of Zephyrim with a plasma pistol and a banner like a normal person.

 

I think the shoulder pads look very weird just floating on their shoulders, otherwise I like them. Terrible colour scheme.

Well, it does look strange at first considering the power armor models we've gotten accustomed to, but it would be strapped/tied into whatever's under it - likely the upper over-shoulder part of the "bodice" (under which I imagine they still have armor, just like power armored Sisters do) or to whatever garment it is that the sleeves belong to as well (a gambeson equivalent, I'd imagine). Historically that's how it's done, the ties just aren't visible here.

 

Personally I don't mind the color scheme since I like browns, though the bluish pants are indeed a bit reminiscent of skinny jeans or leggings. I'm already contemplating how I'll paint the models whenever I get them, since technically before their vows they don't belong to an Order yet, I believe... could be I'll do the brown - though darker, which I considered for my Order already for all cloth - and black, or could be I'll do them the way my Order is anyway.

Why would they be BS 4+ btw? WS 4+ sure but they should absolutely be better than guardsman, even as novices.

A guardsman is still a highly trained soldier (not to be confused with conscripts and planetary militia), and Sisters are still in the end just unaugmented humans (bar for the power armor of full Sisters). As Novices they still haven't finished their training (not that it ends when they reach Sister status either). All in all 4+ would be appropriate.

Sisters initial training is what Commissars, Inquisitors, and Scions get is it not? A novice sister is still a far superior soldier to the average guardsman.

 

Regardless, if they're a troop that costs less than 9pts per model, their stats are irrelevant, they still break the army open.

5ppm are guardsmen

5+ save, 4+ ws and bs, str 3 24" range rapid fire, buff to do rapid fire 2.

 

If these are 5+ save, 4+ ws and bs, str 3 12" 1 shot and cost 9 ppm, they do not exist.

 

Superior in power armor puts them at 35 pts which is about same as ad mech cheapest troops, and what, 10 cheaper than guardsman scions squad. Arguments about retributors are nonsense because guard has leman russ demolishers which cost about the same and are way better.

 

I would gladly pay extra for troops who have a chance of holding objectives.

Edited September 17, 2021 by Beams

[Tokugawa]

Guardsmen are 5.5 pts per model. Appearance of novitiates is more close to 4+ , this unit should be compared with scions. An infiltrate deployment ability is reasonable and would be welcomed.

[tvih]

Im liking some of what i hear and looking at what the kommandos and kreig got i think we'll be ok. I Like the models except the head dress part which is ok, i have plenty of heads left from sisters squad boxes. My main grip is do we really need more imperium terrain? I really wanna see some serious xenos terrain, not just poison trees.

Well, the Orks vs Guard box had Ork terrain. Which isn't to say there shouldn't be more xenos terrain, but at least there was some. The Imperial Sector terrain is quite popular, though, and not normally available these days.

 

It'll remain to be seen if I'll get my Novitiate squad from the KT box or separately. We have several Sisters players locally but few Tau as far as I know, so demand for the halves is going to be skewed I reckon. Personally I don't need the terrain either.

[Beams]

Guardsmen are 5.5 pts per model. Appearance of novitiates is more close to 4+ , this unit should be compared with scions. An infiltrate deployment ability is reasonable and would be welcomed.

 

Skitarii

6" 4+ WS 3+ BS T3 S3 1 1 6 4+/6++

 

Weapon -- Assault 3, Str 3 18"

--6's to hit auto wound

 

So even at 8 pts, with a 4+ Save and WS 4+ BS 4+  they'd be really outclassed, just on the virtue of Autopistols being garbage.

 

Unless they get an infiltrate, I can't see them being more than 6 pts a model. 7 if GW is really cautious.

[tvih]

Well, they'll have the autoguns... which is still not great (though I suppose the autopistol loadout may be differently priced and all that). But comparing between Codices usually doesn't go well anyway, internal balance is where it's at. 6pts would be ridiculous - if you wanna compare to another codex, grots are still 5ppm and they're bloody bad...

[Beams]

Well, they'll have the autoguns... which is still not great (though I suppose the autopistol loadout may be differently priced and all that). But comparing between Codices usually doesn't go well anyway, internal balance is where it's at. 6pts would be ridiculous - if you wanna compare to another codex, grots are still 5ppm and they're bloody bad...

 

We can disagree about this, especially since autopistol and grot blaster are the same, and grots are easier to hide. I just honestly don't think 8 or 9 pts a model will be enough difference to make anyone take them over BSS, since the Bolters, 3+ to shoot, and Power Armor make BSS fairly efficient. 

[Master Sheol]

I dont mind the stats

I am a narrative player not a WAAC

I want the new unit in regular 40k because they are too cool to be wasted in KT

[tvih]

 

We can disagree about this, especially since autopistol and grot blaster are the same, and grots are easier to hide. I just honestly don't think 8 or 9 pts a model will be enough difference to make anyone take them over BSS, since the Bolters, 3+ to shoot, and Power Armor make BSS fairly efficient. 

With how the current terrain rules work, height of an infantry model is nearly irrelevant for hiding. The grots have a smaller base, but that's about it - especially if you can take only 5 novitiates they won't require any notably more area than 10 grots do. And autopistol this and that; novitiates get a better option whereas grots don't. Not to even mention Ld4, no klan special rules, 6+ save, S/T2. Thoroughly terrible unit. 6 or even 7 ppm novitiates especially in squads of 5 would be an auto-take over BSS every single time if you want an efficient list rather than playing what you personally happen to like. They would also make for crazy "horde" lists. That's just objectively factual. If you want to disagree with that, well, that's your prerogative of course.

Edited September 18, 2021 by tvih

[9x19 Parabellum]

These girls could be objectively worse than Guardsman, and 8 ppm and we'd still take them, because if all you want is someone to babysit an objective, they are better for the job than an 11 ppm sister.

[Tokugawa]

"Newcomer" units in fluff don't always mean worse WS and BS on tabletop rules. e.g. Space wolves blood claw and Black templars neophyte are both WS&BS 3+. And marine "veterans" units like Vanguards are also WS&BS 3+, not 2+.

[Master Sheol]

"Newcomer" units in fluff don't always mean worse WS and BS on tabletop rules. e.g. Space wolves blood claw and Black templars neophyte are both WS&BS 3+. And marine "veterans" units like Vanguards are also WS&BS 3+, not 2+.

This is because GW uses d6 so the range of skills is limited by the dice they use

[Plasmablasts]

What I like about the Novitiates carrying auto guns/pistols is that it really establishes how revered bolt weapons actually are. Whilst the fluff constantly tells us that each bolt gun is a venerated relic, on the tabletop they tend to seem like just the bog-standard equipment for Marines and Sisters.

 

Now we can see lightly armoured rookies entrusted to bear sacred chalices and icons into the thick of melee, but who have not yet earned the right to carry the holy bolter.

[Master Sheol]

What I like about the Novitiates carrying auto guns/pistols is that it really establishes how revered bolt weapons actually are. Whilst the fluff constantly tells us that each bolt gun is a venerated relic, on the tabletop they tend to seem like just the bog-standard equipment for Marines and Sisters.

 

Now we can see lightly armoured rookies entrusted to bear sacred chalices and icons into the thick of melee, but who have not yet earned the right to carry the holy bolter.

And this is shown in BT neophites too

They carry lighter versions of the guns that the initiates have

I like these subtle touches

[Dread]

Im wondering if they will have some kinda shield of faith save. The regular sisters dont have one in KT. Strange...anyhow i digress. So far i havent seen anything that would make me want to take the new ones over the others but we will see. Other than the pretty models not sure.

[sitnam]

So WarCom has an article, and they list the novitiates whips as being 3+ to hit. I know it's technically a different system, but I've found within KT21 stats that the hit stats typically line up with 40k

 

It does make sense thematically, as even raw Sororitas recruits go through years of Schola training, so they are fairly hardened for "green" troops

Edited September 20, 2021 by sitnam