How might Squats return to the setting?

[Dark Shepherd]

How would the lore/retcon go for them in general?

 

They survived but burrowed deep down underground? Some groups survived but deliberately stayed hidden? Planets cut off by warp storms or what have you? Ships arrived out of the warp? Primaris offcuts? It was all a dream?

[phandaal]

If GW releases a full Squats range, my wallet will implode from the vacuum left behind by dollars flying out at a measurable fraction of light speed.

[MARK0SIAN]

How would the lore/retcon go for them in general?

 

They survived but burrowed deep down underground? Some groups survived but deliberately stayed hidden? Planets cut off by warp storms or what have you? Ships arrived out of the warp? Primaris offcuts? It was all a dream?

Maybe various expedition/prospecting/exploration fleets were far enough away to have avoided the Nids and grouped together to refound their society somewhere else or as a fleet based race (but that steps on craft worlds a bit). They could even have found safe haven with the tau in exchange for serving as auxiliaries or something.

 

Whatever they go for I hope they’ve given it a bit of thought rather than just hand wave it or retcon it.

[Noserenda]

I mean the launch is almost certainly going to be a launch box like Orks or SoB with Codex and release wave following that up.

Allegiance wise id put them in the Tau empire after making that a proper tag in their codex, then you have Tau/Squat/Kroot as a whole Faction rather than further bloating the Imperium, especially after Mechanicus stole aaaaaall the Squat design space in the intervening years.

Then id pop a Commander, Living Ancestor, Infantry squad x10, Exo Squad x3, Biker squad x5 and Thudd gun in the launch box to give you a bit of a spectrum of the greatest hits. Expanding to a couple more support characters and bringing in Berserkers, Thunderers, Mole Mortars and trikes with alt builds of the full kits.

 

[Noserenda]

Fluffwise they fled the nids, abandoned by the Imperium they eventually end up joining the Tau empire as various shattered remnants but as the various fraternities gather they eventually negotiate a similar position to the Kroot and a number of worlds unsuited to direct Tau occupation but right up their alley.

[phandaal]

 

Allegiance wise id put them in the Tau empire after making that a proper tag in their codex, then you have Tau/Squat/Kroot as a whole Faction rather than further bloating the Imperium, especially after Mechanicus stole aaaaaall the Squat design space in the intervening years.

 

 

Squats can be their own faction. No need to join the Imperium.

 

Sticking them under T'au would be awful though. What kind of self-respecting Space Dwarf swears allegiance to an alien?

 

Fluff: We thought they were eaten by Tyranids. Turns out they were not eaten by Tyranids. Welcome back!

[Karhedron]

How would the lore/retcon go for them in general?

There isn't much to retcon. Squats were written out by Andy Chambers in a fit of pique as a one-liner in the preface to the reprints of "Draco". It would be easy to bring them back.

[Noserenda]

 

 

 

Squats can be their own faction. No need to join the Imperium.

 

Sticking them under T'au would be awful though. What kind of self-respecting Space Dwarf swears allegiance to an alien?

 

Fluff: We thought they were eaten by Tyranids. Turns out they were not eaten by Tyranids. Welcome back!

 

 

 

I mean the Demiurg already are part of the Tau Empire? Its better to have armies already written into a faction with other armies for a whole bunch of fluff and mechanical reasons rather than having a bunch floating around on their own and Tau and Imperium are the only ones that fit here, much as Orks could do with some buddies :D 

[Bulwyf]

I want a full Space Dwarf army release. If they go with Squats as the name again, great, that's fine. I want a full 2k plus army range NOT just a token kill team squad. 

[Skaorn]

It should be noted that the Demiurge are supposed to be (as of now, at least) a xenos species that are separate from the Squats. They just have some space dwarf aesthetics. Edited September 22, 2021 by Skaorn

[Noserenda]

It should be noted that the Demiurge are supposed to be (as of now, at least) a xenos species that are separate from the Squats. They just have some space dwarf aesthetics.

Its not so simple out of universe though, the Demiurg are the last attempt by folks to officially reboot the squats and its just as likely theyll be called Demiurg (and use those odds and ends as background) as squats in universe at this point.

 

Though im sure the Grimhold Rockwhammers is also fairly likely unfortunately :/ 

[Marshal Reinhard]

"It turns out clan X was all eaten by Tyranids! Makes the previous statement that all of them were eaten by Tyranids true, it was all of that clan was eaten by tyranids"

 

Is all the plot maneuvering they'd need.

[phandaal]

 

 

It should be noted that the Demiurge are supposed to be (as of now, at least) a xenos species that are separate from the Squats. They just have some space dwarf aesthetics.

Its not so simple out of universe though, the Demiurg are the last attempt by folks to officially reboot the squats and its just as likely theyll be called Demiurg (and use those odds and ends as background) as squats in universe at this point.

 

Though im sure the Grimhold Rockwhammers is also fairly likely unfortunately :/

Demiurg were more of an attempt to get people to stop asking for Squats. GW's employees had decided that Squats were too "fantasy" or something like that, but those dang customers just wouldn't stop asking about it.

 

People who wanted Space Dwarfs were not interested, and people who didn't want Space Dwarfs also were not wowed by a knockoff version of something they already weren't interested in.

 

Bringing back almost-Squats-but-not-really would probably get the same reaction now.

[MegaVolt87]

If you see this GW, don't bother bringing Squats back if they are a client race under the Tau and not their own independent faction. Thanks. 

[Skaorn]

 

 

It should be noted that the Demiurge are supposed to be (as of now, at least) a xenos species that are separate from the Squats. They just have some space dwarf aesthetics.

Its not so simple out of universe though, the Demiurg are the last attempt by folks to officially reboot the squats and its just as likely theyll be called Demiurg (and use those odds and ends as background) as squats in universe at this point.

Though im sure the Grimhold Rockwhammers is also fairly likely unfortunately :/

Demiurg were more of an attempt to get people to stop asking for Squats. GW's employees had decided that Squats were too "fantasy" or something like that, but those dang customers just wouldn't stop asking about it.

People who wanted Space Dwarfs were not interested, and people who didn't want Space Dwarfs also were not wowed by a knockoff version of something they already weren't interested in.

Bringing back almost-Squats-but-not-really would probably get the same reaction now.

How were the Demiurge rejected? The only models they had were for BFG and those came out near the end of the game's production. I know quite a few T'au players who'd love to get the Demiurge in model form on the table top

 

Separate question, how would Squats be distinct from other imperial armies? The original seem like they played like IG did. How would they fit in with all the other human armies?

[Halandaar]

I'd rather they were a fully fieldable army in their own right, with some separate rules to allow them to be played as T'au Empire auxiliaries. A bit like how the various Eldar books are standalone armies by default, but can be combined into a Ynnari force if you choose to do so.

 

Edit - If nothing else, this would finally provide a framework for officially supported Gue'vesa as well.

Edited September 22, 2021 by Halandaar

[Karhedron]

Separate question, how would Squats be distinct from other imperial armies? The original seem like they played like IG did. How would they fit in with all the other human armies?

A good question, it depends how GW want to play it. I would look at the way they played in Epic for inspiration as they were a fully fleshed out faction there.

 

I would start out by making the infantry slow and durable (although not Death Guard levels of durable). They should have firepower equivalent to Marines to represent their higher tech base. Infantry as easy as they have:

 

• Warrior brotherhoods: Basic Troop type
• Beserkers: Melee
• Thunderers: Fire support
• Guild bikes and Trikes: Fast support and fire support respectively
• Hearthguard: Elites
• Exo-armour: Terminator equivalents

Then to flesh them out, look at Epic units like their Grand Battery. Lots of artillery like Thudd guns, Mole Morters and Goliath Megacannons. For vehicles, maybe give them a unique mechanic that they use subterranean mining vehicles like the Mole and Termite. These vehicles could have rules allowing them to come in from Reserve to represent them burrowing up from beneath the ground. You could have both infantry carrier and firepower versions.

 

Gyrocopters and armoured airships provide skimmer and flyer support.

 

Lastly you have the classic Squat warmachines like the Land Train, Colossus and Cyclops. As they stand they are too big for 40K as they are really Titan-sized. But you could make LOW sized equivalents. Slow moving super-heavies with thick armour, void shields and heavy firepower. Something like a better version of the Baneblade. You would need to balance it either with points or with some other weakness (even if just being vulnerable to infantry assault).

[Dark Shepherd]

LOWs seem like a very big punt/risk for a new army*, maybe FW gets delegated them or they wait a few years before pulling the trigger

 

Airship might be too Kharadron for them to make but in general they dont have to keep the same relative scale as their Epic predecessors

 

Stand alone but can ally with Tau seems the best way to go lore wise.

 

Copyrightable name wise, GW got around Tau by spelling it T'au, so they could go Demiurgians or something but with a very retro looking codex cover so we all know whats up

Edited September 22, 2021 by Dark Shepherd

[Lysimachus]

I wrote some fluff a good few years ago to try and justify bringing them back, as a basis of planning an army of allied IG/Marine counts-as. Went along the lines of:

 

The Squats/Demiurg are a race that are all psychic on a very, very low level*. This mucks about with the Shadow in the Warp. Plus they live on very barren worlds with little surface bio-matter.

 

When the nids come along, they lock themselves up in their fortresses. Thus, everyone else assumes they've all been eaten, but the Hive fleets actually just tried a few planets but didn't find enough food to be worth the hassle of cracking the rest open, and just move on to the smorgasbord that is the Imperium. Once they've passed the Squats open their gates again.

 

*Too low level to do anything on an individual level, except maybe a general strong will/stubbornness. But as Squats get older they become more connected to the psychic field the race generates, and eventually you get Ancestor Lords...

[Bryan Blaire]

Honestly I don’t think the story will be that important - the lore will fall into a 33/34/33 or 25/50/25 divide anyway, as most of it seems to - namely that 25 or 33% (-ish) of the players and lore folks will absolutely hate it and go on social media and forums and decry the awfulness, 25-33% will absolutely love it and go on the same to shout from the rooftops their love and adoration, and 33-50% of the players and lore folks will go “Yeah, okay, that’s not great, but this is 40K” and move on.

 

The army I think would almost have to bring something new to the game - and I don’t just mean a new/nostalgic faction - which has been hard for GW to accomplish in a way that is accepted by players, but it is necessary for the army to be successful in the long term.

[Brother Tyler]

Assuming they come back as a credible force (and not just for Kill Team or Necromunda), I'd love to see them with mutable faction keywords. Ultimately, they're abhumans, so IMPERIUM (and ASTRA MILITARUM?) seems appropriate as a baseline. Alternately, it would be nice to see T'au players able to take them as auxiliaries, replacing their default faction keywords with TAU EMPIRE. Having them as a totally separate faction doesn't seem right if the intent is to preserve the core of their original lore. It might work if they come back as true xenos (e.g., Demiurg), but the extant Necromunda releases would then be invalidated, so I don't think that's likely.

 

Overall, though, I'm unclear if this is speculation based on a credible rumor or if someone just speculated that the Squats might be coming back and we're all just running with it. While I'd love to see the Squats return to the setting in force (vice the small representations in Necromunda), I'd much rather see existing ranges get updated first. I'd hate to see GW focusing on an old range that didn't sell well at the expense of existing ranges that would sell well if they ever got the love and attention they desperately need from GW (looking at you, Space Elves).

 

Getting back to the Squats, I'd like to see the Kharadron Overlords aesthetic brought to WH40K (realistically, those models are already great conversion fodder for Squats).

[phandaal]

Overall, though, I'm unclear if this is speculation based on a credible rumor or if someone just speculated that the Squats might be coming back and we're all just running with it. While I'd love to see the Squats return to the setting in force (vice the small representations in Necromunda), I'd much rather see existing ranges get updated first. I'd hate to see GW focusing on an old range that didn't sell well at the expense of existing ranges that would sell well if they ever got the love and attention they desperately need from GW (looking at you, Space Elves).

 

It is based on a leak from last month. The leak has been accurate with its predictions so far.

 

"Squats" was at the very end of the leak and it could just be a pie-in-the-sky thing that GW has been kicking around. Supposedly taking place after everything else has been done, including a significant Eldar update.

 

Important to note, they did use the word "Squats" and not "Demiurg" or anything else.

[Redcomet]

However they come back, they gotta lean heavily into what once was. So exo suits. Thuddguns, land trains, blimps and trikes. Otherwise what is the point.

[Noserenda]

I mean Thudd guns are as uniquely squat as a lasgun :P 

Id had previously (like in college, so maaaany years ago) written up a revamp that spun the Squats into more a corporate/cyberpunk kind of direction but thats something the Kharadon (Though steam rather than cyber punk) have done now so that feels less likely.

I wouldnt take the project being referred to as squats right now to mean much either, id be pretty damn surprised if thats their final name as its fairly widely disliked internally, i mean it sounds like a bowel problem ;) Its just what they are currently known as. Like, if years ago Militarum Tempestus had leaked we would have been mostly clueless rather than thinking "storm troopers".

[Brother Tyler]

"Squats" is better than their "scientific" name of Homo Sapiens Rotundus.