How might Squats return to the setting?

[Sarvis]

i think a few mining vessels scattered here and there obs affected my the galactic turmoil of the last few years maybe Mandalorian sorta only one guild is public at a time ,hunting down old tech /artifacts of the lost home worlds avenging them selves on there pillages.

 

 

love the idea of "new" old tech from the past but for me they need giant jawa sand crawlers to drive around in :P

I don’t know if it’s just me but I didn’t understand any of this

[venyak]

Hello all,

 

This is my first post in the forum and the topic that have me to create an account. I am spanish (forgive my english) and I am an enthusiast of eldar (I have a CWE army) but I also have dark eldar, arlequin and Innary miniatures (in fantasy I also have high elves and wood elves). However, I like also a lot dwarves and since I've been in warhammer for a while (2002) I remember good enough the squats. The thing is that in this post I have seen a lot of good ideas that I share to revive them and diagnosis of why the failed in the first moment, and I would like to put them alltogether in the more schematic way:

 

1. Lore:

 

Problems:

- The squats, as they were in the 4th edition (basically a mix between a gang of bikers and the imperial guard), do not feet in the grimm dark universe 40k is nowadays. The fact they are abhumans (less than humans in the 40k universe does not help).

- Their name is a joke.

- They were stated in a single line that they were all killed by the tyranids.

- Demiurgs were created as a xeno race to ocuppy their space but they were not developed. There are some drafts but the only official miniatures are those for their battleships of Gothic.

- In 40k universe there should be motives to be in war with everybody and I don't think that squats falling to chaos is a very good motivation to fight against the empire or even against themselve.

 

Solutions:

- The name squats might be a derogatory name used in the empire (squatz by thee orkz if you want) but they need to have a proper name (sort of dawi in fantasy). In that sense using demiurg can be a good solution. However, I think this name is not very supcetible to be copyrighted so I would rather go for a totally new one (kind of Aeldari). I think demiurgs should be the name that Tau have give to those who have relations with the Tau empire.

- They need a grimdark lore to fit in the universe, keeping as much lore as possible:

    - I think slight changes should be done to their origins -> They were humans that reach high and dense metal-rich planets and that evolve to adapt these environment, Ok. But they enforce this using genetics knoledge to the points they are no more phisically compatible with humans and they consider themselve better and more evolve than the rest of the humans, not feeling contempt for them but pity. Also, they do not workship  the emperor god but only their ancestors, more in a respect fashion that in a religion fashion. They need to keep the flavour of a proud old race that they have in the fantasy wold and even make it a little bit grimmer.

   - I think the tyranid invasion should be kept. Tynarids work a little bit as skavens in the 40k universe and the new squats must have flavours of a decadent race whose golden days are far in the past. Obviusly, the lore about this invasion should be more richer (not a random fleet with no name please). I would rather say something as "their words, once prosperous, were devastated by the war against the orkz and depleted by the Tyranids, making the survivor's refuge in the core of their planets, extracting the energy from them instead of from the starts, living on fungi and other food that does not need light (the tyranid invasion have leave their few remaining planets without atmosphere and life in their surfaces)". The race, once united, after a big time now have splitted into different surviving fortress words with their own government and agendas (and different flavours as the eldar craftworlds). Also, some asteroid miners brotherhood survived since they were far from home during the invasion, and now, without their homeplanets they wonder around the universe seeking for asteroids to mine. Some of them have side with the imperium (there are still loyalist squats) and some have do business with the Tau empire (demiurgs). However, most squats hate the empirium as they didnt assist them in their times of need (they should HATE everybody, like the grudge mechanic in fantasy but way grimmer). These give them reasons to fight everybody in the 40k universe. Now, with the gathering storm events they could have come out of their worlds and they bear a grudge against the empire for not aiding them so most of the remaining secceding wolds have declare their independance. Finally, to make them a little grimmer they could have adapt to leaving in the underground, adapting their sight and their skin to the circustances (they are good genetists) so they could have a way darker look. 

- I am not sure how to deal with the disformity but I think they might be resistant to it but somehow they have developed technology to travel through it without using psiquics.

 

2. Army concept:

 

Problems:

- As stated before, they were basically a mixture between a bikers gang and small imperial guards.

- Not much personallity.

- In the lore they had a way better technology than the imperium, but it did not seem this with the different units.

 

Solutions:

- More diggers and spacial miners units. Miners, boring vehicles,...

- Robotics and IA (they are not bounded by the Imperium laws). They could have robotic self-boring mines (similar to the widow mines on Starcraft). Aerial robotic drones, robotics mobile defense towers, robots...

- They should have some technologies the Imperiur armys do not dream to have. Maybe some magnetic fields technology or gravitional technology (but they should no appear to be eldars), more Plasma weapons..

- They should have bionic parts and heavy armors (as space dwarves they are in the end). I am thinking about a crazy squat full of wounds and bionic parts as some sort of 40k slayer concept (think of them instead of as honorable comitted to glory warriors as cyborg quats consumed by hate and pain that wish to die).

- I would erradicate the motorbikes totally for them. To me it does not make much sense that they are a fast army.

- Maybe some chainaxes as melee weapon, or mechanic diggers or mechanic grinders, but something different.

 

3. Esthetics:

 

I like the aspect of the new squat miniatures of Necromunda but yet, I would prefer to go something more dwarvish and not dwarves in empire clothes. In this sense, I am very into the demiurg concepts we have had these last years. In the lore fixes I proposed before there is space for empire loyalist squats (or at least squats living inside), which I think can justify the Necromunda characters.

 

I would like to end saying I think that there is a lot of possibilities for a space dwarves concept in 40k, there is only to work on it.

[phandaal]

I would definitely get some Chaos Squats if they followed the same aesthetic as old school Chaos Dwarves. Would not get me playing 30k though.

[slitth]

I would say that they should return as a kill-team for starters.

 

A team whose mission is to scout out worlds and see in it a world that

A. Is of interest to the Squat in terms of resources.

B. Is located in a place where a Squat webway tunnel can be connected. 

 

Because that what the Squat has be doing all this time.

"digging" new tunnels so they can start their empire again.

Tunnels of "better" quality. Squat quality.

 

Of course this technology is something the imperium would really like to get their hands on.

It could in theory fix the webway gate on Terra.

And make travel between world quick and safe.

 

But it also poses a great risk, so there would be many factions that would like to see the Squat and their technology go away. 

[Dark Shepherd]

I would say that they should return as a kill-team for starters.

 

A team whose mission is to scout out worlds and see in it a world that

A. Is of interest to the Squat in terms of resources.

B. Is located in a place where a Squat webway tunnel can be connected.

 

Because that what the Squat has be doing all this time.

"digging" new tunnels so they can start their empire again.

Tunnels of "better" quality. Squat quality.

 

Of course this technology is something the imperium would really like to get their hands on.

It could in theory fix the webway gate on Terra.

And make travel between world quick and safe.

 

But it also poses a great risk, so there would be many factions that would like to see the Squat and their technology go away.

A Kill Team expansion where its played in tunnels could be a likeable version of Pariah Nexus. Even overground they get the option of going ooooh like shiney new mining/machinery style terrain

[Doghouse]

I think the easiest way is to just have them so they have always been there in the background and retcon the Nids munching them to be honest.

 

They never really came out in the lore seriously and made a huge deal of them being extinct as far as I know, the army was just dropped. It'd be pretty simple to say they've been here all along then just debut them in kill team to test the water, give them Necromunda rules and then roll them into a full on army.

 

40K universe is old and things get forgotten and rediscovered with time, I'd bet the vast majority of Imperial Citizens have never seen an Astartes but they are still there so Squats shouldn't be a hard sell.

 

Bring back Grimm!

[Slave to Darkness]

If GW gave us a full Squat release Id throw money at them and invest in some shares, no kidding... 

 

Not everything I post is negative :D 

[Slave to Darkness]

I think the easiest way is to just have them so they have always been there in the background and retcon the Nids munching them to be honest.

 

They never really came out in the lore seriously and made a huge deal of them being extinct as far as I know, the army was just dropped. It'd be pretty simple to say they've been here all along then just debut them in kill team to test the water, give them Necromunda rules and then roll them into a full on army.

 

40K universe is old and things get forgotten and rediscovered with time, I'd bet the vast majority of Imperial Citizens have never seen an Astartes but they are still there so Squats shouldn't be a hard sell.

 

Bring back Grimm!

The Squats evacuated their homeworlds and buggered off far away from the Nids, tried expanding their population again out of the way but the splitting of the galaxy has forced their hand to join in, after all many Squats fought against Chaos in the Heresy, could say some families have not forgotten what their Ancestors have sacrificed in the past to secure a future for their race as a whole and decided they would follow suit. Cant let their Ancestors down now can they??

 

Grimm should be their 'Guilliman' level character, not every day a Squat sets foot on terra and runs around the webway and lives to tell the tale. :D

[phandaal]

 

I think the easiest way is to just have them so they have always been there in the background and retcon the Nids munching them to be honest.

 

They never really came out in the lore seriously and made a huge deal of them being extinct as far as I know, the army was just dropped. It'd be pretty simple to say they've been here all along then just debut them in kill team to test the water, give them Necromunda rules and then roll them into a full on army.

 

40K universe is old and things get forgotten and rediscovered with time, I'd bet the vast majority of Imperial Citizens have never seen an Astartes but they are still there so Squats shouldn't be a hard sell.

 

Bring back Grimm!

The Squats evacuated their homeworlds and buggered off far away from the Nids, tried expanding their population again out of the way but the splitting of the galaxy has forced their hand to join in, after all many Squats fought against Chaos in the Heresy, could say some families have not forgotten what their Ancestors have sacrificed in the past to secure a future for their race as a whole and decided they would follow suit. Cant let their Ancestors down now can they??

 

Grimm should be their 'Guilliman' level character, not every day a Squat sets foot on terra and runs around the webway and lives to tell the tale.

 

 

I say we just ignore the Tyranids thing completely. It was a disrespectful throwaway line and should be disregarded as such.

[Slave to Darkness]

 

 

I think the easiest way is to just have them so they have always been there in the background and retcon the Nids munching them to be honest.

 

They never really came out in the lore seriously and made a huge deal of them being extinct as far as I know, the army was just dropped. It'd be pretty simple to say they've been here all along then just debut them in kill team to test the water, give them Necromunda rules and then roll them into a full on army.

 

40K universe is old and things get forgotten and rediscovered with time, I'd bet the vast majority of Imperial Citizens have never seen an Astartes but they are still there so Squats shouldn't be a hard sell.

 

Bring back Grimm!

The Squats evacuated their homeworlds and buggered off far away from the Nids, tried expanding their population again out of the way but the splitting of the galaxy has forced their hand to join in, after all many Squats fought against Chaos in the Heresy, could say some families have not forgotten what their Ancestors have sacrificed in the past to secure a future for their race as a whole and decided they would follow suit. Cant let their Ancestors down now can they??

 

Grimm should be their 'Guilliman' level character, not every day a Squat sets foot on terra and runs around the webway and lives to tell the tale.

 

 

I say we just ignore the Tyranids thing completely. It was a disrespectful throwaway line and should be disregarded as such.

 

True, they most probably did that because a lot of the 1st ed lore didnt count any more and they didnt want to confuse new players, but why re release the book again then other than for the pennies? But thats irrelevant at the moment, thinking back the only thing that isnt cannon now was the Cabal cult and the Starchild thing, with a lot of the weird stuff going on in 40k currently I dont think that would be out of place, especially as a lot of the old lore has resurfaced again, Oll Persson/Ollanius Persson, Ambulls, the Inquisition being at war with itself, Squats, one more Death Cult and another Emperor conspiracy theory would fit right in. Then they could re re re release the books again so I can replace the ones I lost when I was a kid. 

 

Tbh I would loose my mind if Lexandro D'arquebus showed his face again... If they put him through the rubicon I would literally eat my socks and buy a Primaris Fist army that would put Valraks to shame. 

Edited December 30, 2021 by Slave to Darkness

[Dark Shepherd]

Squats being gone is a joke up there with metal only sisters

 

Bringing them back is not even a lore change let alone near say trimming 93 years off the Indomitus Crusade or bringing back Bobby G

 

Making Squat models is no crazier than AI Thunderhawks or plqstic Kreigers

[Slave to Darkness]

I dont mean Squats as a lore change themselves, I meant the stuff in the old novels, the only place where Squats had a place in the literature was unceremoniously 'munched' and a lot of the things mentioned in the stories were classed as heretical, fallacy, false news and whatnot. There was no record of Jaq Draco in any records, no records of a Cabal Cult etc... 

I think I was making a cack handed connection between the return of the Squats and the old lore they kicked under the carpet taking the Squats with them. I dont think they really need to come up with a reason for them to return, they are running around on Necromunda already so I dont see why that bit of fluff about the Squat ship reappearing should come as an in universe shock. If they still want to run with the Nid thing, they could just say the Squats relocated until they sorted themselves out, and the shock was not because they were though to be dead but more like an OMG HULK HOGAN HAS ENTERED THE RING!!!! kinda thing as they were not expected to be in the position to fight so soon maybe? 

[Blindhamster]

just have it that they were on some other worlds, it would be interesting if they could be allies for tau AND imperial guard, that would be super cool. Could also introduce some limited squat options for GSC too which would be interesting conceptually.

[Slave to Darkness]

True, just because the Homeworlds got munched doesnt mean they didnt settle in other systems. 

[Dark Shepherd]

I dont mean Squats as a lore change themselves, I meant the stuff in the old novels, the only place where Squats had a place in the literature was unceremoniously 'munched' and a lot of the things mentioned in the stories were classed as heretical, fallacy, false news and whatnot. There was no record of Jaq Draco in any records, no records of a Cabal Cult etc...

 

I think I was making a cack handed connection between the return of the Squats and the old lore they kicked under the carpet taking the Squats with them. I dont think they really need to come up with a reason for them to return, they are running around on Necromunda already so I dont see why that bit of fluff about the Squat ship reappearing should come as an in universe shock. If they still want to run with the Nid thing, they could just say the Squats relocated until they sorted themselves out, and the shock was not because they were though to be dead but more like an OMG HULK HOGAN HAS ENTERED THE RING!!!! kinda thing as they were not expected to be in the position to fight so soon maybe?

Oh I just meant itll be super easy to bring back Squats (and head off complaints about bringing them back)

[gorg_graggel]

I still kinda think the Squat part of those rumors are the leakers having some fun. It often happens with rumors (not just in this industry) that some outlandish claim is being made to either throw off the 'bloodhounds' or to just troll a bit, because why not? Those rumors have been fairly accurate so far, but I just can't shake the the feeling we're being trolled with that one. Squats are a meme (I'm aware of the Necromumda models...). People like playing along established ones. Trolls are everywhere. ;)

 

I can't say too much about how they might return if it's not a troll attempt. I have always been an 'antidwarfitist' :p in any fantasy/sci-fi setting, so I don't know too much about them beyond vaguely remembering that pesky faction to use up space in my imperial codex (or whatever the exact name of the book was) of 2nd edition that could have been used to explain more about anything else in the setting. XD

 

(I'd be absolutely chuffed for fans to get their wish and they actually return, especially if it's not shoehorned in, but I will never not have a jab at them. :D)

[Felix Antipodes]

I dont mean Squats as a lore change themselves, I meant the stuff in the old novels, the only place where Squats had a place in the literature was unceremoniously 'munched' and a lot of the things mentioned in the stories were classed as heretical, fallacy, false news and whatnot. There was no record of Jaq Draco in any records, no records of a Cabal Cult etc... 

 

I think I was making a cack handed connection between the return of the Squats and the old lore they kicked under the carpet taking the Squats with them. I dont think they really need to come up with a reason for them to return, they are running around on Necromunda already so I dont see why that bit of fluff about the Squat ship reappearing should come as an in universe shock. If they still want to run with the Nid thing, they could just say the Squats relocated until they sorted themselves out, and the shock was not because they were though to be dead but more like an OMG HULK HOGAN HAS ENTERED THE RING!!!! kinda thing as they were not expected to be in the position to fight so soon maybe?

 

Noting that the Imperium (via the Inquisition and other Departmentos) loves to delete things it doesn’t like from historical records, non appearance there isn’t that big an issue.  Maybe one of Guilliman’s Historitor cadre will come across mention of Jaq and company or the Cabal cultists in one of the many obscure archives they are investigating as the Indomitus Crusade continues on its way.  Hell, they may even stumble on the new Squat homewords in their travels! 

Edited December 31, 2021 by Felix Antipodes

[Warsmith Aznable]

Hot idea GW can have from me for free: Squats come back in a sub-faction of Tyranids. Check it out, Genestealers pave the way for a Tyranid hive fleet, then you have the hive fleet invasion, but then you could have a sort of Tyranid rear guard of misfits and aberrations left behind to "reseed" the galaxy for a future culling. Like the original multi-xenos faction concept for Tau, only much MUCH weirder.

[phandaal]

Hot idea GW can have from me for free: Squats come back in a sub-faction of Tyranids. Check it out, Genestealers pave the way for a Tyranid hive fleet, then you have the hive fleet invasion, but then you could have a sort of Tyranid rear guard of misfits and aberrations left behind to "reseed" the galaxy for a future culling. Like the original multi-xenos faction concept for Tau, only much MUCH weirder.

Thanks, I hate it!

[Iron Father Ferrum]

Look, an all-consuming life-destroying horde is terrifying enough. An all-consuming life-destroying horde that engages in *farming* is worse.

[Slave to Darkness]

Look, an all-consuming life-destroying horde is terrifying enough. An all-consuming life-destroying horde that engages in *farming* is worse.

I dunno, the Vikings were not that bad :lol: 

[grimshroom]

Personally, I'm torn. More attention from GW would be grand, but at the same time the absence of attention has lead to a lot of people forming their own opinion about what happened to the Squats, what they're doing now, and how they look and feel.

 

If they were to do something, I think it would be interesting to explore enuncia a bit. Maybe Squats have become so advanced they are able to transcribe words of power, lending physical tools strange powers. It'd be an interesting marriage of old WHFB Runesmithing and stuff that already exist in the setting. 

[phandaal]

Personally, I'm torn. More attention from GW would be grand, but at the same time the absence of attention has lead to a lot of people forming their own opinion about what happened to the Squats, what they're doing now, and how they look and feel.

 

If they were to do something, I think it would be interesting to explore enuncia a bit. Maybe Squats have become so advanced they are able to transcribe words of power, lending physical tools strange powers. It'd be an interesting marriage of old WHFB Runesmithing and stuff that already exist in the setting.

That could be cool. No psykers as such, some kind of warp-based weaponry or armor instead.

[Skaorn]

With the new Guardian squad out on display, it lends more credence to the Squat killteam that was mentioned in the Eldar advent leaks. Guess it was more likely then a full army release. Maybe if it sells there is still a shot.

[SvenIronhand]

On one hand, I hope that recent rumors are correct. On the other, I wonder how it will be differentiated. In all truth, I hope it's not a Kharadron Overlords/Fyreslayers situation.