Playing for Resilience

[Charlo]

So obviously the IF supplement is currently at the bottom of the pile of the many flavours of Marines these day, with little synergy and more of a grab bag of stuff. Successors especially feel a little left out with a few stratagems seemingly built around having the main chapter tactics.

 

But one thing the supplement does do well is resilience (and defence). Maybe not in the same way something like pure Iron Hands does, but there are just enough rules you could focus on.

 

Defensively, there are the following Stratagems:

 

Close Range Bolter Fire (Bolters become Pistol type)

Bolster Defenses (+1 save conditional)

Pain is a Lesson (6+ FNP)

The Shield Unwavering (+1 Save, +1 Attack)

 

Relics:

Banner of Strangda (+1 to hit in melee)

Auric Aquila (4++, 5+ FNP against Psychic Mortals)

Wardens Curiass (+1 Wound)

 

Warlord Traits:

Indomitable (only wounded on 4+)

Stubborn Heroism (-1 incoming Damage)

Architect of War (friendly CORE Infantry in cover count AP-1 as AP0)

 

Psychic Power:

Fortify (heal D3)

 

 

I do wonder if there is a decent core of abilities here that can't at least be leveraged a bit for 9th Ed play.

 

Maybe something around a block Intercessors (or Veteran Intercessors?) with Auto Bolt Rifles backed up by some of those strong auras and then an utter tank of a character to intercept bigger threats?

 

Maybe there is something with Vanguard units deploying in cover too, just being utterly unshiftable unless the enemy has ignore cover bonuses.

 

I'm mostly spitballing but it's an idea!

 

While not ideal, I'm looking to run Minotaurs with the recommend chapter tactics (Stalwart + Duellists), so they factor into this a little.

Edited September 20, 2021 by Charlo

[Brother Captain Vakarian]

The Shield Unwavering is one I keep in my back pocket especially for Bladeguard units. Especially in conjunction with Transhuman if things get really ugly.

 

And I run Indomitable on my Indomitus Captain, which makes him annoyingly hard to deal with for a character model.

 

I’m running Fist successors with Warded and Whirlwind of Rage, for reference.

 

I think the resilience that focuses around objective play can be fun, and playable, for Fists successors and my marines feel pretty solid, although we’re playing a fairly low-key crusade campaign.

[Angelus Nex]

Bladeguard could go up to a 0+ save in cover after you dump them on an objective with impulsors. Assault terminators with shields can do this to (-1 + save). also both these units have 3 wounds per model so the heal has more effect on them.

The +1 to hit banner is also nice for thunderhammers.

So I would check those high quality models.

[DantesRevenge]

I think the play style for Fists of taking objectives early then being hard to shift works quite well with our strats and the objective game in general. Much more effective than the gun-line in my experience.

 

I've had some success with basically using the phobos units, such as infiltrators, or eliminators to sit on objectives early then with a  mix of smoke screen , transhuman, bolster defence and shield unwavering just being very difficult to shift.

 

I usually run my Captain with Stubborn Heroism but I'd be happy to hear if people have had more success with indomitable.

 

As for Psychic powers, I'm not a massive fan of Fist specific ones but I think the classic combo of 5+ invuln and MoH again can make for some really tough units to move.

[Brother Captain Vakarian]

My thought behind taking Indomitable on the Indomitus Captain was that at T4 he benefits a lot from only ever being wounded on a 4+.

 

I’ve mathed it out before and against S4 with a power fist, they’re roughly (maybe exactly? I’d have to double-check) the same. Stubborn heroism is better against anything D2 or higher with S7 or lower (but beware DG in melee and Drukhari poison). Indomitable is better against thunder hammers and anything else S8 or higher, especially at D3 or higher.

 

That said, Stubborn Heroism is probably almost always better on a Gravis Captain, and if you’re really feeling froggy you could pop both with Sentinel of Terra.

 

I pair Indomitable with the Imperium’s Sword and Burning Blade on the Indomitus Cap to make a nice counter-charger who can hold his own in a pinch. He’s slashy and he’s hard to find a good angle to attack him—he’s got a solid base save, his invul, is resistant to high-strength weapons, and has a solid mortal wound shrug. But I go for kind of off-beat combos in the Crusade forces I’m playing because my buddy and I aren’t going super-competitive, we’re trying to build characters and units we think are cool and make a story for them.

[Mandragola]

I haven't used my Crimson Fists yet in 9th (new baby and Titanicus are taking up my time instead) but I think this is how I'd want to use them. Have a solid core of stuff like Redemptors, Bladeguard and possibly hammernators that goes to the midfield and back that up with big guns. 

 

I think Kantor improves hammernators marginally more than bladeguard, though there's a case for taking both. In theory, 10 guys near Kantor could have 51 thunder hammer attacks on the charge if you used the Shield Unwavering. He also makes them obsec, which is nice. 

 

I've tended to plan around taking lots of intercessors as I like their combination of dakka and durability. They also work well with some strats - 10 guys firing twice at orks with rerolls to wound could be fun, for example. But maybe I should stick to just one of those units, take a couple of infiltrator or incursor squads for actions, and save the rest of my points for tough dudes and really big guns.

 

I find myself with quite a lot of grey plastic marines and some conversion ideas but not a lot of clarity on what to do. I've run this CF army since the beginning of 8th and been relatively happy to ride the meta wave with them. Right now my complaint isn't so much that they're bad, but that they're a bit boring. The idea of marching a bunch of tough models into the midboard and hoping the enemy can't kill them has never appealed to me. I think I'll hold off on any decision till I see the BT codex, as it might be more fun to march into the midboard and then break heads in melee.

[Charlo]

Thanks guys, the IF board was looking a little anemic so it's good to have the discussion!

 

Some solid ideas here for sure. I almost wonder if Fists could be a semi-decent meta check, having some good units to tackle things like Raiders and Skitarii Walker blobs

[Brother Captain Vakarian]

Suppressors look *mighty* tasty for a Fists successor (or straight Fists) Into Raiders and some of the AdMech vehicles (and Orks for that matter, the superdoctrine gets around Ramshackle a bit).

 

I agree the board is awfully quiet—I think BT will be much busier than us for a while, rightfully so. But agreed it’s good to have some action on the Fists board.

[Mandragola]

The issue with Raiders isn't killing them. They're the same paper planes they always were. The issue is seeing them, and in particular seeing them while the devastator doctrine is active. I do think maybe Fists can make a DE player very sorry to go first, as they'll probably have to hide for a turn if they do, but I'm less sure we can really hurt them if we go first ourselves. They can essentially just burn T1, let our advantage disappear and engage when they want to.

 

There are actually a few platforms that can do this fairly well. Invictor warsuits combine good T1 firepower with a bit of melee threat. A suppressor squad is probably a good option because they're also a 100 point deep striking action monkey if you need them to be, making them a solid asset. A Storm Speeder thunderstrike is fragile but has a respectable amount of shots and 2+ BS. MM attack bikes exist too.

 

A problem I tend to run into is that while these units might be kind of decent for Fists they tend to look a bit better for other chapters. It's difficult to find a combination of units that make sense for us which isn't better for someone else.

[Brother Captain Vakarian]

I think Fists might be a uniquely useful place for Suppressors.

 

The main Marine dex strat to shift a unit into another doctrine would work to put Suppressors into Devastor doctrine on T2, right? And similar usefulness for the counts-as-stationary strat?

 

I hadn’t thought about Invictors but those are cool for sure too.

 

Of course, none of this is going to be game-breaking or top table at tournaments, but it seems like fun ways to use some decent units that aren’t quite “meta” picks.

[Charlo]

Whirlwinds with the strong missiles are pretty much prefect raider killers turn one

[MegaVolt87]

CF do the brick better. Indomni shield cpt WLT-stoic defender Shield eternal relic), x10 heavy intercessors w/ hellstorm bolt rifles + Chief Apothecary. Count as 20 dudes for obsec, 30 wounds T5 + apoth gives 6+++ and use heal twice for 2D3, 4 wounds average heal, saving you one less casualty each time they come under fire. I think the new pecking order will be 

#1 BT, #2 CF, #3 IF for Dorn's line until we see any 9th ed supplements. 

[Angelus Nex]

Playing for resilience, I would go for something like this.

Infiltrators zone out the board, and can pull back with the lord of deceit warlords trait.

1 Terminator unit Will start on the board, could also be regular terminators and set-up camping in a building to fortify a position. Kantor and friends arrive with the terminators by deepstrike.

And reiver lieutenant can if neede turn of obsec with terror troops strat.

Seems durable and hits hard enough in combat.

 

++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Imperium - Adeptus Astartes - Imperial Fists) [93 PL, 9CP, 2,000pts] ++

 

+ Configuration +

 

**Chapter Selector**: Crimson Fists, Imperial Fists Successor

 

Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)

 

Detachment Command Cost

 

+ Stratagems +

 

Champion of Blades [-1CP]

 

+ HQ +

 

Lieutenants [4 PL, -1CP]

. Lieutenant in Reiver Armour: 2. Lord of Deceit, Stratagem: Hero of the Chapter

 

Pedro Kantor [8 PL]: Stoic Defender, Warlord

 

+ Troops +

 

Infiltrator Squad [6 PL]

. 4x Infiltrator: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Marksman bolt carbine

. Infiltrator Sergeant

 

Infiltrator Squad [6 PL]

. 4x Infiltrator: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Marksman bolt carbine

. Infiltrator Sergeant

 

Infiltrator Squad [6 PL]

. 4x Infiltrator: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Marksman bolt carbine

. Infiltrator Sergeant

 

+ Elites +

 

Apothecary [5 PL, -1CP]: Chapter Command: Chief Apothecary, Selfless Healer, Stratagem: Hero of the Chapter

 

Company Ancient [5 PL]: Boltgun, Chapter Command: Chapter Ancient, The Banner of Staganda

 

Company Veterans [8 PL]

. Company Veteran: Lightning Claw, Storm shield

. Company Veteran: Lightning Claw, Storm shield

. Company Veteran: Lightning Claw, Storm shield

. Company Veteran: Lightning Claw, Storm shield

. Company Veteran Sergeant: Lightning Claw, Storm shield

 

Terminator Assault Squad [18 PL]

. Assault Terminator Sergeant

. . Thunder Hammer & Storm Shield: Thunder hammer

. 9x Assault Terminator w/THSS: 9x Storm shield, 9x Thunder hammer

 

Terminator Assault Squad [18 PL]

. Assault Terminator Sergeant

. . Thunder Hammer & Storm Shield: Thunder hammer

. 9x Assault Terminator w/THSS: 9x Storm shield, 9x Thunder hammer

 

+ Fast Attack +

 

Land Speeders [3 PL]

. Land Speeder: Multi-melta

 

Land Speeders [3 PL]

. Land Speeder: Multi-melta

 

Land Speeders [3 PL]

. Land Speeder: Multi-melta

 

++ Total: [93 PL, 9CP, 2,000pts] ++

 

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Edited September 22, 2021 by Angelus Nex