Help deciding between two 750pt lists

[WolfLogic]

I'm posting this here since I feel like the army lists subforum isn't really meant for list advice and my legion doesn't matter so tactica seemed a bit out of place as well. I have two nearly identical 750pt lists, each based off what I feel like will be a good intro to the Ultramarines. 

 

List 1 

1x Centurion 85pts

Artificer Armor, Refractor Field, Power Axe

 

1x Contemptor Dreadnought 175pts 

Twin Linked Heavy Bolter and Dreadnought CCW 

 

3x Tactical Squads 405pts

Sergeants all w/ Artificer Armor

 

1x Predator 85pts 

Pintle Mounted Heavy Bolter 

 

List 2 

1x Centurion 100pts

Artificer Armor, Refractor Field, Power Axe, Plasma Pistol 

 

1x Contemptor Dreadnought 200pts 

Twin Linked Lascannon and Dreadnought CCW 

 

3x Tactical Squads 375pts 

 

1x Predator 75pts 

 

 

Want to know which of these two lists is more well rounded if I don't end up getting the options for both. As that would be the one I'd run with until I built the army up further. Thanks for any help you all can give.

Edited September 20, 2021 by WolfLogic

[SkimaskMohawk]

You kind of have to ask what format these lists are for, because the standard age of darkness FOC and missions are structured to work at a minimum of 1750.

[LameBeard]

I like the idea of small lists!

 

But you are more likely to find opponents expecting either Zone Mortalis or Centurion at smaller point values. And either one would mean dropping the predator.

 

Also, at small points values or these formats, what is your opponent bringing that needs the the twin lascannon to deal with?

 

Are you planning on expanding later? Otherwise, why 3 tactical squads. I would drop the plasma pistol, swap lascannon to multi-melta and then swap one tactical for veterans with more fun stuff. They score and can handle themselves in close combat - you can probably have fun modelling them or just give a visually distinct paint job. If you haven’t yet bought the models, could use a different armour mark.

[WolfLogic]

I like the idea of small lists!

 

But you are more likely to find opponents expecting either Zone Mortalis or Centurion at smaller point values. And either one would mean dropping the predator.

 

Also, at small points values or these formats, what is your opponent bringing that needs the the twin lascannon to deal with?

 

Are you planning on expanding later? Otherwise, why 3 tactical squads. I would drop the plasma pistol, swap lascannon to multi-melta and then swap one tactical for veterans with more fun stuff. They score and can handle themselves in close combat - you can probably have fun modelling them or just give a visually distinct paint job. If you haven’t yet bought the models, could use a different armour mark.

The plan is to expand later, I made a couple more list at escalating points on battlescribe going up to 2k points. I've admittedly made a couple of changes to escalate easier but I see your point about the difficulty finding games with the predator. I really want to have 3 in the final list and would prefer to start sooner rather than later but maybe I'll need to work something else out. If I kept the predator would I really need the multi melta on the contemptor at this point value?

[LameBeard]

Multi-meltas are probably best in zone mortalis where you meet other dreds and doors, and range is not an issue.

 

But what have you got that’s AP3 or even AP2 since you could meet terminators at 750?

 

You will find other lists full of plasma.

 

Check the Centurion rules, maybe the predator is allowed at 0-1 choice.

 

I still wonder how this is army is going to play against (say) World Eaters. Hang back as far as possible shooting bolters until the chainaxes arrive? Doesn’t feel like much fun, even though the massed ranks of infantry will look great on the table.

 

Sorry, I realise I am not helping you choose between the two, which is probably based around the models you have. If I really had to choose between the two I’d just say no plasma pistol on the Centurion. You really wouldn’t want to lose your warlord to “gets hot”. Plasma pistols are over-costed in Heresy in my opinion.

Edited September 21, 2021 by LameBeard

[Noserenda]

I would always take a twin lascannon over multimeltas, better range, better against av14 targets and not horribly undone by armoured ceramite which most things you want to hit with an AT weapon will have as you scale up.

For that reason i prefer the second list as its got some AT punch there, though id probably drop the character plasma pistol for some sergeant gear like melta bombs to boost your threat range on the tactical squads.

Boys before toys is good, id generally put art armour on a sergeant after ive given them something worth keeping alive, usually some form of power weapon.

Seems like a good, solid core to an army though, and you can expand out from there with all the exciting options :) 

[Mogsam]

Heavy bolters on a dread are usually a waste to be honest. They're not very good, not very punchy and can be easily acquired by other units that don't have access to casual kheres assault cannons, meltas, grav etc.

 

Plasma pistols are a bit of a waste as well. They're nice, but they're 15 points for something you'll probably shoot once in the game. Imo, heresy is go big or don't bother for weapons like plasma.

 

I'd be tempted to either put a kheres into the Contemptor, or turn it into a cortus with double fist grav. Its 180 points for chainfist/fist grav cortus with extra armour and it's always a threat. AP14/13 doesn't matter against grav.

 

Id also try to find points to give the Sargents some power weapons. Artificer is great, but it doesn't kill anything. Usually Sargents take each other out in a challenge, so being able to do wounds is better than being able to survive them. You could probably jiggle one of the tacticals into vets to find the points.