Should Rules be free? How would YOU pay for yours?

[Necronmaniac]

Hi All,

 

Following the fallout from the recent GW IP issues, the recent cease and desist issued to games-workshop and the constant discussions around Battlescribe, I was watching Chapter Master Valrak's stream last night and he said he thought rules should be free and so fair play to the guy who runs games-workshop for, as he put it, standing up to GW. The idea that rules should be free isn't something i haven't heard before in the 40K community (and probably in the wargaming community more broadly) but it kind of baffles me, so i thought I would start a discussion topic on it to try and see where people are coming from.

 

As you can probably already tell, I don't think rules should be free. There is a cost to a business in designing and writing those rules, they are not free to produce and so I don't understand why customers feel like they should not have to pay for them. I think this is particularly true of Codex books, where i think it is wholly reasonable to provide basic stats with the models so you can use them alongside the free core rules but if you want to get more out of your faction, then you pay for the codex book. Again, Codex books with the art, lore and rules they contain will not be cheap to design and produce so why should we get all that for free?

 

That said, I would absolutely support a hybrid model where there was a purely digital rule set with no art or fluff and you could pay a monthly/yearly subscription to that to get access to ALL the rules for every faction and the core rules. This could be quickly and easily updated when an FAQ/Errata dropped. Meanwhile you can still buy the Codex book if you like and it will still have everything they have in there now. Heck they could even add more in like painting guides, tactics pages or whatever. Really make it THE go to place for your army.

 

However, i know there are some people who absolutely don't think they should have to pay for their rules and I am curious to understand the thought process behind that given they are not free to make.

[Redcomet]

Basic rules and army rules free, with the option to buy print on demand books. The buyer has the option of choosing how extra he wants the book to be, this catering to those who fancy, fancy books too.

[Captain Idaho]

With 3D printing looming over GW's business model as an ever present sword of democles, we are seeing a drive towards toys, collectibles and IP partnerships (video games etc) so the age of GW supplying miniatures is likely numbered.

 

As such, they will be making their money from their rulesets going forward, if they want to carry on making games for us to play, much like source books for DnD.

 

I used to want free rules, but given GW is likely to stop making lots of miniatures one day, I'd rather the official game still existed so I actually would continue to pay for rules.

 

That's not to say I don't want a better system in place that is cleaner and with reduced bloat, of course I do.

[ApulianAbaddon]

I am not saying rules should necessarily be free, but at least I would like to find all rules for my army in a single book

[Lord Marshal]

As you can probably already tell, I don't think rules should be free. There is a cost to a business in designing and writing those rules, they are not free to produce and so I don't understand why customers feel like they should not have to pay for them. 

 

Considering most other wargames, from literally-a-guy-in-his-garage to companies like Corvus Beli and Para Bellum puts out it's rules and unit profiles for free, I don't think GW would suddenly be going bankrupt if they did.

 

A degree of 'loss leading' would probably do them good in my uneducated opinion. The quickest way to have tanked my desire to buy some Tyranid models for my GSC in 8th was realising I'd have to fork out £30 for the 'dex and potentially another £25 for Blood of Baal - guess who still doesn't have any Tyranid models for his GSC force? Same with Nurgle Daemons for my Death Guard back when I collected them.

 

Rules, unit profiles, basically anything that's rules going onto the table etc, should be free and at least annually given an update. Dead Tree versions (and digital versions with lore, pretty pictures, etc) should still be available for those who want them.

Edited September 25, 2021 by Lord Marshal

[Dark Shepherd]

The basic rulebook doesnt have to be a 2kg breeze block. The actual rules and missions just being a booklet/20 page softback that is dirt cheap or free with box sets or maybe even a pdf as well would be great and convenient for a lot of people. Give it some margins or space for notes so you can write in FAQs and Erratas without ruining a €45 book

 

They can still do a collectors edition or hardback with lots of lore for those that want it

 

Codex format Im happy enough with but 8th indexes were great and 9th pdfs even better as tide you overs. The day 1 campaign books though need to go or just not be competitive

[Necronmaniac]

I agree about rules being spread out and it being better for it to be possible to get them all in one place. That's where I think a digital, subscription based rules set would work wonders.

 

As for rules being free I tend to agree more that the biggest risk to GW (though I still think its a good few years away yet) is 3d printed minis. So they would need to maximise income from rules to offset losses in that area.

[Marshal Loss]

Rules free and consolidated into one place. Allows GW to be much more nimble in addressing balance issues, removes a formidable entry barrier, and stops the absurd situations we inevitably see near the end of every edition where folks have to carry around a small library to play their army. Have gorgeous full-length books with all of the wonderful art & lore that characterised pre-9th ed army books, maybe even including hobby sections e.g. like AoS battletomes/old codexes, available for sale. In this scenario I'd happily end up spending more on army books than I do currently.

[Rik Lightstar]

I want an option for a streamlined edition of each book.

 

I've been playing 40k for nearly 30 years now, I really don't need the same background taking up more than half of a massive hardback book every edition, it's wasteful and a pain to lug it around.

 

The same is true for the Marine Codexes, I'd not even mind buying a separate background book, but I don't need it reprinted 3 times in 5 years.

 

I'd rather pay £25 or even £30 for a softback rules only book than £40 for the current rulebook. Or £20 for a gaming content only Codex.

 

Rik

[Captain Idaho]

I must admit, the poor background material changes brings the value of a traditional Codex right down for me. I can appreciate a separation between rules and background.

 

Of course, most wouldn't buy a background only book I reckon.

[Noserenda]

I quite like the (apparently now abandoned) AoS system where model and core rules are free and you buy the books to get army rules, though id certainly loss lead a bit on the books.

[Lord Marshal]

I must admit, the poor background material changes brings the value of a traditional Codex right down for me. I can appreciate a separation between rules and background.

 

Of course, most wouldn't buy a background only book I reckon.

 

For all the flak 7th gets, them never returning to the slipcase rulebooks split between lore/hobby/rules was an odd one. I don't know of anyone who had a bad word to say about that. 

[MARK0SIAN]

When I first started collecting 40K models I was genuinely shocked, baffled and appalled that you had to pay for the rules for a game you’ve just bought the pieces for, after all monopoly doesn’t charge you an additional fee to include a set of rules for how to play the game.

 

As I got to grips with the structure of how the rules were organised and stuff, then paying for them made slightly more sense. However I’ve never fully gotten over that initial shock and I still think it’s silly that you have to pay extra to be able to fully use something you just paid for. GW models aren’t cheap so it’s like finding out you’ve just bought something like an expensive new PC keyboard that you can plug in and type with but if you want to use all the additional features on the keyboard you have to pay for the drivers.

 

For my two cents:

 

1) All rules should be primarily digital with print option available for those who want them (on the understanding that the printed option my rapidly become out of date as points changes and balance updates are applied)

2) The full rules for the game should be totally free

3) The full rules for any models you purchase should be totally free

4) Army wide rules or abilities (the non datasheet parts of codexes) should be available as part of the base app Subscription and not require additional purchases to unlock

[LameBeard]

I don’t mind paying for rules if there’s evidence money has been spent on testing those rules, and those rules don’t end up being obsolete within some ridiculous short timeframe.

[WrathOfTheLion]

As mentioned by others, I have no problem with paying for rules, but I would like them to have more staying power if I am paying for them. Edited September 25, 2021 by WrathOfTheLion

[Marshal Reinhard]

Hard to strike a balance here. On the one hand the books need to be cheap, with free rules would being the ideal. Free rules means fluff only in the book, which would affect their sales hard. Also, if you do pay for rules, you do want what you pay for to stay relevant for long... but you also want your army updated regularly, since being left behind aint fun, trust me.

Edited September 25, 2021 by Reinhard

[ThePenitentOne]

If they could release art, photo and lore free rules in electronic format for zero cost without mucking up the regular status quo, I wouldn't object.

 

The second they add a penny to the cost of their models or paper dexes to make up for lost rules revenue (which I think we all know they would), the deal is off.

 

I would likely still buy dexes, cuz I'm bent that way. But I might occasionally download free rules for armies that I don't play to take a look at what they can do. A good example here: I've never had an Ork army, but I've got the Octarius Kommandos now, so if I got a look at free rules, it might be enough to talk myself into buying the CP box to go with them for a small Crusade force. Same is true of Tau with the upcoming Charnath box- never played Tau, but I might if I had free rules to get me started.

[Arkaniss]

Considering the apparent cycle of GW proclaiming no bloat any more then slowly adding book bloat over time before starting the process again I think having the rules for free would massively help. I think that would generate a large bit of goodwill if to play the game (and you'd assume use all the GW models, paints and whatnot to do so - GW are still getting their share) you didn't need to invest in a hulking tome which you then have to lug around to every game  

 

On top of that if it was a living document that was regularly tweaked with fixes and improvements I really think no-one could complain about the rules then. Well, maybe about a few rules I suppose   I can understand charging for army books (also I like seeing any new artwork) but anything to bring the cost down with regard to book buying would be grand. Like many old timers I have quite a few armies now and buying all the books* every edition is just not feasible.

 

*sometimes more than one for an individual army

[Halandaar]

Free rules would be great, but to be honest I don't object to paying for rules as a general principle.

 

What I object to is paying for a Codex and then being required to buy a campaign book which contains some extra rules for that faction, which could/should have just been included in the Codex in the first place. 

[battle captain corpus]

I’m happy buying the rules & codecies. Maybe not always with the frequency of changes (SoB & SM jump to mind) but on the whole I see it as an investment for X amount of years hobby etc.

 

BCC

[Evil Eye]

I'd actually rather the rules remained entirely in printed paper form, for one very simple reason- once I've got the rules in book form, GW can't take them away. Even if they yank support from a game/edition, if you have the books, the game/edition can live forever. Moving to a digital version, knowing how GW is, they'd most likely attempt to make it so that once a new version of the rules came out or a game was retired, the old rules were removed from the service they'd offer it on and the rules in question were lost forever. We already see this with video games with the "games as a service" angle, and it is NOT something I want to see happen to Warhammer. And that's to say nothing of if you make yourself someone that GW sees as an "undesirable customer" (suppose a popular YouTuber criticized GW/praised another company one too many times) and GW "bans" you from the service, thus meaning you can't play your game with the current rules. Again, something we've seen in the video game industry and something I want kept as far away from tabletop gaming as possible.

 

Even aside from the simple joy of a physical book I think wanting GW to take the rules primarily digital would be a huge huge HUGE mistake.

[Doghouse]

Things like points updates should be.

[Dark Shepherd]

Keeping books to play old/favourite editions is a good point.

Saying GW would delete your mywarhammer account or something for being critical is just paranoid Im afraid, at worst theyd know that that would be very bad PR

 

Points updates should definitely be free and it seems to be going that way. If for no other reason they can react an awful lot quicker

Edited September 26, 2021 by Dark Shepherd

[Cleon]

My view is I don't mind paying for rules, I object to continually paying for minor tweaks to rules (points, next edition of a codex etc) at full price.

 

This is where I thought the app, accounts etc was going - Let me buy 'Blood Angels' at full price once, then when they get a points update, that's free, a new codex/rules re-write that's either free or a cheap unlock if you already have it or people not yet bought in can buy in there and get the full suite of 'current' at that point.

 

I've got every rule book from 2nd to 9th edition, I poured over the background in 2md, 3rd ed days, read 4th and 5th as they matured the setting and I skimmed 8th as they'd moved things on, I'm not sure I even opened the section in 6th and 7th.

[Khornestar]

It’s a matter of the rules not being worth the price tag, for me.

 

1. They’re not good rules, it’s not a good game.

2. They’re outdated almost immediately, at least the hard copies are.

3. Too many disparate books and other sources for rules.

4. Too many overpriced paperweights from prior editions of the game taking space on bookshelves already.

 

I will buy the main rulebook for an edition, and beyond that let’s say I peek at someone else’s copy for reference.

 

If numbers 2 and 3 were addressed, it’s not the concept of paying for rules that I’m against, but every edition I’ve actually played (6-9th) just has the same issues, and I’m done supporting that model. Not worth the money, rules available online, no problem finding or using them. When a free website presents rules in a better way than the corporation with decades of experience and the budget to do a better job, the whole thing is just a joke.

 

I spend the money on the models anyway; the thing GW is great at.