Should Rules be free? How would YOU pay for yours?

[Karhedron]

I don't mind paying for rules but having them invalidated quickly is annoying. Psychic awakening for BAs, SWs and DAs was a real pain because it just gave them access to stuff they should have had anyway after the new Marine dex came out. Now that they have gone back to being just supplements, at least that won't happen again.

[Dark Shepherd]

I could totally be misremembering but don’t codexes lose GW money in terms of investment to return? Just because so many weenies pirate codexes. I might be conflating some Reddit buffoonery with truth here though.

This would be very interesting if true. Maybe the least popular ones do but bigger sellers have to turn a profit. Given the giant margins GW put on everything Id be surprised if most dont make a profit.

 

Maybe the dead financial weight is having to always have an oversupply?

[Karhedron]

Codices exist to help sell the models. Having said that, I find it hard to believe they actually make a loss at the price they charge. If they were loss making, why churn out so many Psychic Awakening books when they could have just issued some erratas?

 

Still, I could be wrong.

[Evil Eye]

Saying GW would delete your mywarhammer account or something for being critical is just paranoid Im afraid, at worst theyd know that that would be very bad PR

 

I'd love to agree but after the recent NDA leak I'm not sure I'd give GW the benefit of the doubt on that one...

[Jorin Helm-splitter]

If it were up to me the base rules would be free. Not just the core rules, but have downloadable data sheets for the different units, and a fraction starter download. The fraction starters using marines as an example would have chapter tactics, simple army construction, a list of power levels for all the units, and guides for taking the next steps. That way new or returning players could try the game with minimal barriers to entry. 

 

For the advanced rules I don't mind paying as long as they add enough value. Karhedron brought up a good point, last year I bought PA for my wolves, then I had to buy the new marine book, a new chapter approved, and then my new supplement. I'll be honest I never would have bought saga of the beast if I had known how long it was supposed to be legal for. The content needs to be spread out better, and they need to be more aggressive with point updates for older fractions. IG, and Tau have been in a rough spot for quite awhile, that's not really acceptable when your advertising chapter approved as basically a balance patch.

[AenarIT]

The most important thing is that rules should be distributed online, in a centralized place. Easy to amend, correct and update if necessary. A bit like DnD Beyond. 

My preferred option would be for this ruleset to be free. Not having to pay for rules would lower the cost of entry for new players. It would also allow people to quickly check rules of the opposing army during games. 
Worst case scenario: free core rules, paid codices and supplements. 
God-awful one: nothing for free. In this case the current unofficial and free rules resources would be the best choice for players. 

Paper codices should still exist imho, but with no rules inside. Just lore, artwork, stories and pictures of painted models. There would be no need to update them every other year this way. 

[Panzer]

 

Saying GW would delete your mywarhammer account or something for being critical is just paranoid Im afraid, at worst theyd know that that would be very bad PR

 

I'd love to agree but after the recent NDA leak I'm not sure I'd give GW the benefit of the doubt on that one...

 

You mean the NDA leak that wasn't just confirmed to be fake but also a pretty much standard NDA people sign all the time? That NDA leak?

[Evil Eye]

 

 

Saying GW would delete your mywarhammer account or something for being critical is just paranoid Im afraid, at worst theyd know that that would be very bad PR

 

I'd love to agree but after the recent NDA leak I'm not sure I'd give GW the benefit of the doubt on that one...

 

You mean the NDA leak that wasn't just confirmed to be fake but also a pretty much standard NDA people sign all the time? That NDA leak?

 

Nah, the one that was confirmed as real and that a certain individual who shall remain nameless doxed the whistleblower over. That NDA leak.

[Brother Casman]

Can we not discuss the whole NDA thing here?

[jarms48]

The only rule book I bought since 8th edition was the Guard codex. Otherwise I use a particular online website for all my rules. Much more convenient.  

 

Why should I have to lug around the BRB, my codex, my relevant PA book, all the FAQ's, and CA2021 Mk. II when I can just have everything on my phone?

[MegaVolt87]

Having the rules under the warhammer + sub isn't a bad idea as long as there is the option to obtain codex codes for 15-20. While I think the core rules should be free, I think paying an additional $20 is fair in the app. $40 and free updates is a great value prospect for new people for rules and vets would appreciate more cash for extra models to spend on. Say as a new player I don't like those terminator skeletons or the big super soldiers in the starter set, I still want the FULL rules everyone else is using, rulebook + new codex is already (AUD) $110 + $84= $194 and I haven't even bought any miniatures, paint etc. In comparison, $40 of full rules leaves $154 to spend on a character and a unit of troops to push around in open play to just learn how things work. Then a combat patrol as a second purchase if you enjoyed the game so far, now you have more options on play formats. Or, bundle up the relevant combat patrol WITH a codex, codex cost is at break even added to existing combat patrol price. Leave the existing separate book prices the same. Thats a good value prospect for everyone. 

 

There has to be other avenues to do it because not everyone likes the starter box contents to get rules at a discount. I know I didn't, I jumped straight to CSM- two boxes of CSM troops, a metal termi for a HQ, the rulebook and CSM codex back in 3rd ed. Second purchase was the CSM battleforce and there was a good sized force already. GW won't lower prices, they need to make value buy ins to the game. Low cost rules options in addition to the existing model would help a lot to make the game appealing for younger people with little money and older people who don't see much value in the rules just to play. 

 

EDIT- I bought Indomnitus on release, now with new BT box that includes the codex it feels like I got something meaningful to just throw down with + a pile of necrons to purge. Limited edition boxes shouldn't be the only ones to have a codex included. 

Edited September 28, 2021 by MegaVolt87

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Geedub loves to sell rules it’s always been that way. It’s something you have to accept if you want to play.

[Jukkiz]

I´m  always for idea of, basic rules should be free.

Faction rules should be ones you need to pay for faction you want to play

Massive changes, like apocalypse should be paid too.

[Inquisitor Eisenhorn]

All basic rules and faction rules could be made free, and they could still sell us tons of rules and I'd be fine with it. 

 

Instead of reading the same slightly updated Blood Angels Codex every couple years, I would buy the heck out of a BA campaign book, and a new one could come out once each edition rather than a codex.  That way I could learn more about my army, be invested in what they have done somewhere on the timeline, and even get some rules for campaign scenarios. 

 

Leave the core/faction rules online, so they can be updated on the fly as needed, and instead sell us REASONS to put our armies on the table, not just the means. 

 

Honestly, I gave up 40k several editions ago because I hate the model of buying the same books every few years.  It's boring and not worth it on any level to me. 

 

It's made me move to alternative rules sets and my gaming life has actually come back from the dead. 

[Special Officer Doofy]

I'd be more inclined to pay for rules and collect more factions if, you know, they didn't suck for half of an edition every edition and succumb to codex creep.

[Orange Knight]

Forgive me, but aren't all the basic rules already free?

 

There are datasheets and weapon profiles in the box of each kit, and the core rules are free to download as a PDF.

[Noserenda]

It's only a summary in the box these days isn't it? Stats and weapons only?

[Orange Knight]

Yes, but the core rules are also free to download. You don't get points or the more complex terrain rules or objectives, but you could play a basic game with models you've bought, and without ever investing in rules or a codex.

[Noserenda]

Yes, but the core rules are also free to download. You don't get points or the more complex terrain rules or objectives, but you could play a basic game with models you've bought, and without ever investing in rules or a codex.

I mean, you can play a basic game at home yourself with just your imagination... If you cant go out and play a game with someone else without either being laughed out of town or at a major disadvantage i dont think that counts.

[Orange Knight]

I simply responded because I saw that people would like some basic rules to be free. My point is that they already are.

 

If you're looking to go out and play a standardised game with a stranger, or are looking to start winning, that is beyond the remit of basic, kick-starter rules.

 

You can go into a store, buy two random kits, and GW do offer everything required "rules wise" to actually put the models on the table and use them in a home game for free.

 

If you want a comprehensive set of rules, points, stratagems, etc that elevate your game to the level of winning over strangers in pick-up games, or a more comprehensive narrative focused "crusade" ruleset, then I see no problem with having these behind a paywall.

 

I'm not sure I agree with the premise that you'll be laughed out of a place because you want a learning focused game that uses power levels in order to get to grips with the rules. In fact too many people jump in at the deep end and get over-whelmed with too many rules, too many models, and a backlog that actively de-motivates them. I believe the general mentality of the community in regards to this might be off.

Edited October 28, 2021 by Orange Knight

[Special Officer Doofy]

Now this guy makes sense! No faction specific ANYTHING from a codex, no special rules for wargear or units, no mission stuff or terrain rules. Why buy a video game when you can play the free demo of the first 10 minutes over and over again! Edited October 28, 2021 by Putrid Choir

[AenarIT]

Forgive me, but aren't all the basic rules already free?

 

There are datasheets and weapon profiles in the box of each kit, and the core rules are free to download as a PDF.

Technically yes, but those booklets tend to be outdated. And most of them have rules with just a title and a reference to a certain codex page. 

Newer booklets don't even have that, just icons, numbers and zero descriptions (even on weapon profiles).

 

As for free vs paid rules, I don't really care THAT much.

The important thing would be to move the rules distribution online, through a portal like D&D Beyond.

 

Having to flip through multiple physical books and FAQ printouts just to have the most updated version of rules to use makes no sense in 2021.

Just go with a digital rule set, easier to update as needed. One that allows for a single consolidated rules source to check.

If done well, I would have no problem paying for that. 

I still think that offering free rules would still net them more money as it would lower the barrier of entry and attract new customers/players, but for the good of the game the digital part of it is more important imho. 

 

Edited October 28, 2021 by AenarIT

[Imren]

Just get battlescribe and all your problems of keeping track on the books, pdfs, FAQs, datacards etc are gone out of the window, battlescribe does that for you, for free.

 

Although it is a army list building tool, you have most special rules there outside the core rules.

[Noserenda]

Trying to play with just the kit booklet rules isnt just simplifying things though, its stripping out essentially everything and not even explaining itself particularly well.

I think AoS previously had it down fairly well, you get the full rules for individual units off the websites but you need the army books for extra gubbins. Gives you plenty to be getting on with or to plan a new army with and you can potentially play a game with someone without it being a tutorial.

ofc GW has apparently gotten rid of that system so :( 

[Firedrake Cordova]

Personally, I think:

• The basic rules should be available to download for free, and the boxes should include the stats to use the models. That way, someone interested in the game can buy a couple of boxes of models they like and get started, without the rather large initial outlay of rulebook and two codexes.
• Charging for the full rulebook with all the advanced rules and scenarios is fine. Having the option of paper and/or digital form would be great, with a discount for the electronic version (personally I prefer paper, but I understand not everyone does).  Ditto for the full codexes.
• Ideally, it'd be great if GW would give you a free electronic copy if you bought the physical copy of a book, but I'd settle for them giving a substantial discount if you bought both the physical and electronic copy, like Osprey do.
• If I want to play an army, I shouldn't need to buy more than one codex (although I'm OK with the sub-faction supplements - e.g. the first founding chapters - as long as they have sufficient content and are sensibly priced). Ditto with rulebooks (although I'm OK with substantial supplements, e.g. cities of death).
• Errata (including points) should be a free download.
• Books have to have a greater longevity. I mean, seriously, it's ridiculous how quickly they go out of date. 

For what it's worth, the edition and book churn is one reason why I don't play "recent 40K" (although, as someone who prefers skirmish-sized games and the narrative approach, the Crusade rules are really tempting). I still play Kill Team (old version), Age of Sigmar, Warhammer Fantasy, "original" Necromunda, Battlefleet Gothic, and Aeronautica Imperialis, but the recent 40K and Necromunda approaches are a good example of how to make me want to buy substantially less...

 

Saying GW would delete your mywarhammer account or something for being critical is just paranoid Im afraid, at worst theyd know that that would be very bad PR

It could also cause legal issues ("and your lawful basis for processing the personal data in that way is..? GDPR says 'hi' ")