Should Rules be free? How would YOU pay for yours?

[AenarIT]

Just get battlescribe and all your problems of keeping track on the books, pdfs, FAQs, datacards etc are gone out of the window, battlescribe does that for you, for free.

 

Although it is a army list building tool, you have most special rules there outside the core rules.

Oh I know, I use that and another incredibly well made resource that works even better. I bring zero books to the gaming club, just a tablet.

The problem is that those two are not official sources so you still need books and paper copies of FAQs at events. And the distribution of updates through PDF files and a physical Chapter Approved every year could be done way better with a official digital database, directly updated by the game designers.

[slitth]

I don't think that rules should be free.

But I would like it to be formatted differently.

 

The core rule book should just remain the same.

That I would prefer be change is that the Codex was divided into a rule book and a book with lore fluff and paint guide.

Perhaps even going so far so to have the army rule book change in to data cards.

So you can carry the rule you need in a binder.

That would also make the easier to replace if you lose them or if there is a error on the card.

Also if the is a new unit being added to the army, they you just add the rule data card to the box.

 

Then GW could add "special" glitter cards to the mix and sell pro binders with different covers.

[Domhnall]

I don't think that rules should be free.

But I would like it to be formatted differently.

 

The core rule book should just remain the same.

That I would prefer be change is that the Codex was divided into a rule book and a book with lore fluff and paint guide.

Perhaps even going so far so to have the army rule book change in to data cards.

So you can carry the rule you need in a binder.

That would also make the easier to replace if you lose them or if there is a error on the card.

Also if the is a new unit being added to the army, they you just add the rule data card to the box.

 

Then GW could add "special" glitter cards to the mix and sell pro binders with different covers.

 

 

The binder style idea would be pretty cool. 

So you could have the option to buy the rules in a stripped down, rules only style, on sheets to go in a binder. Any changes made during the course of the edition could be purchased to replace or add into the binder.

And the cheerful employees can then recommend that anybody who signed up for Warhammer+ gets these extra sheets sent out for free 

Or you could purchase them seperately. And, when the edition changes, you replace what is necessary.

 

As an additional idea, 

Once it gets to 10th edition, they just stop releasing new editions, but just evolve the rules as they go. Flyers getting too powerful? Update cover rules or such, pring and send them out!

The online rules get updated automatically.

[LameBeard]

They toyed with the idea of “living rule book” but them pulled back from it. And waaay back in the day they did have binders. Remember white dwarf having little guides for your hole punch so you could put the article in your binder next to the appropriate rules? And games coming with the binder spine title? Those were the days …

[The Yncarne]

If I am buying GW miniatures, terrain, or hobby accessories, I am already paying for rules. Said it before, Warhammer+ subscribers should have access to all rules for their game, not this half baked solution where i still need to buy a codex to unlock relics or give wargear to characters.

 

Love the hobby, love most of the models, love playing with friends. Don’t love keeping track of so much stuff, a seemingly never ending series of updates across channels/mediums, and dumping armies I’ve collected over the decades.

 

Maybe it’s just time to move on to chess or board games.

[Lexington]

Given that it’s pretty common now for companies to provide both the rules and an accompanying app for free, I’d say the question is more “why shouldn’t rules be free?”

[Guest Triszin]

Basic digital rules: free

-no lore, no blurbs, just rules/pts

 

Physical copy:$

Integrated digital copy $

[Inquisitor Eisenhorn]

If I am buying GW miniatures, terrain, or hobby accessories, I am already paying for rules. Said it before, Warhammer+ subscribers should have access to all rules for their game, not this half baked solution where i still need to buy a codex to unlock relics or give wargear to characters.

 

Love the hobby, love most of the models, love playing with friends. Don’t love keeping track of so much stuff, a seemingly never ending series of updates across channels/mediums, and dumping armies I’ve collected over the decades.

 

Maybe it’s just time to move on to chess or board games.

Yeah the problem with paywalling rules isn't just that they can nickel and dime us to get FULL access to a faction's options. It's that it's super annoying to have the rules for the game spread out across so many sources, every single edition.  For people who don't get to game constantly like weekly, that's just another barrier to actually playing. 

 

It would be funny if it weren't so sad that Battlescribe has literally done what GW could have implemented years ago, as a small independent developer, and manages to be a more reliable and usable resource than their in-house apps. 

 

That they haven't just hired the Battlescribe guy and given him the resources to make it look a little nicer really says something about the company's priorities, although it's hard to articulate just what it says.  Nothing good, though. 

[Tawnis]

There's been a lot of talk about GW making money off the codices, which they of course do, but I'd argue that they could make just as much, if not more, by making the rules free. There are plenty of people that would like to collect multiple armies, but when they thing about it, adding the cost of a codex on top of the already substantial price of getting even 500 points is more than a bit of a deterrent, not to mention knowing that you'd have to keep buying that codex every edition if you wanted to play your small little test army. If you're on a budget, why do that when you could instead get one new thing for your existing army, still get your shiny new thing fix, and save yourself a lot of money? To speak from experience, I'll use myself as an example: 

 

I collect, to varying degrees, most of the armies in the game. Rather than go for specific models, I'll usually just buy whatever the current discount box is (Piety/Pain, Hexfire, ect), paint it up and use those with whatever I've gotten from that army previously and pick up the occasion unit here of there to flesh out whatever list I've come up with. I have a lot of fun not sticking to one army and trying out a bit of everything.

That being said, if I had to buy every codex and supplement that they made in order to play all these armies, I wouldn't be buying any more models from them, because I wouldn't have any leftover money. It would honestly probably make me sick of the game too, not having anything new to paint/build just trying to keep up with rules for what I have.

It's sites that provide free rules that keep me invested in the game. I can skim all the rules whenever I want to get an idea of new armies/lists I want to try and can print off whatever rules I need to play them. There are several times where I've been reading the site and have gone out to get something because of that, which I never would have seen elsewhere since I wouldn't have had the codex, or supplement, or random White Dwarf article, or FW sheet, or Chapter Approved, or whatever else. It's what brought me back into 40K in the first place as I hadn't played since early 7th and taught myself the new rules at the end of 8th from their site before deciding to commit to 9th. Since then, I've easily spent well over a grand on models, updating my collection, but that could have easily all gone to books if I needed all the codices for: Space Marines, Astra Militarum, Grey Knights, Tau, Chaos, Death Guard, Thousand Sons, Tyranids, Necrons, Orks, Eldar, Sisters. Plus all the supplements for them and Inquisition and Assassins. If that was my barrier to entry, I never would have gotten back into the game.

Not to mention that investing in models is forever (assuming the unit isn't discontinued, RIP Pariahs) where you need to replace your codex every few years. Not that big a deal for only one army, but in my case or that of other people with many armies, it's just an infinite loop.
 

Edited November 1, 2021 by Dosjetka
Edited formatting to make the text more legible.

[AenarIT]

100% this. 

If I were in charge of it I would be moving all the rules to an online database, available for free, and sell physical copies of codices with just lore, artwork and tons of pics of 'Eavy Metal painted miniatures.

200+ pages books that do not need to be updated every 2-3 years but maybe once every 7-10 years when the faction receives an overhaul or a lot of new models. Books that they could sell with a fancy cover and high quality paper, for a higher price than current ones. 

 

Another thing to mention is how many of the current books are never sold.

Last week I stepped into one of the largest wargaming stores in the area and they had a >1.5m pile of old codices, campaign books and supplements ready to be returned (or thrown away), still shrink wrapped. It was shocking to see a pile of what basically is paper waste, yet with an original RRP of thousands of euros. 

Edited October 30, 2021 by AenarIT

[LameBeard]

I was shocked to find that my local FLGS does not get “sale or return” on products outside some unspecified “core” range. So shops being left with an out-of-date codex is a real thing. Seems like a poor way to treat your business partners and customers, selling them something which will soon be very much less valuable. As a customer, I’d be happy if each codex came with a voucher giving you a discount off the next edition. As a store, I can see why he doesn’t like to stock the codices! Edited October 30, 2021 by LameBeard

[Firedrake Cordova]

So shops being left with an out-of-date codex is a real thing. Seems like a poor way to treat your business partners and customers, selling them something which will soon be very much less valuable. 

Quite. I remember (back in the 1990's!) when GW would substantially discount the army books & codexes when a new edition came out. I ended up getting a few books for the background and "hobby" content that I wouldn't have considered buying otherwise (this was the 4th Ed WHFB books).

[Dark Shepherd]

In 8th and 9th eds has a codex ever gone out of stock on the webstore?

[Joe]

I think the Space Marines and Death Guard codices had a brief week or two where they were OOS?

[apologist]

From the point of view of most gamers – and I say ‘most’ advisedly – the current model of free core rules, plus rules for models in their boxes, is actually pretty good.

 

At that level, it’s a good, not overwhelmingly complex, boardgame. Perfect for parents roped into playing a game, or for two pre-teens to play together.

 

For those who end up taking it further and getting deeper down the rabbit hole, the big rulebook and Codices are a nice expansion – but not strictly necessary to have fun with the models.

[conscriptboris]

Unfortunately I would side with GW. I dont believe rules 'should' be free. With the rapid increasing of 3D printers, there would be a growing community who would laugh and take rules for free, and print (for cheap). These people are essentially ripping off those who invest in the hobby and keep GW afloat. I would suggest believing a business should give us work they have built for free, is a bit entitled, and greedy.

 

They do give rules for free, you can go to GW shops and play for free, with their models and free tuition. Adults, can afford to pay.

[roryokane]

Unfortunately I would side with GW. I dont believe rules 'should' be free. With the rapid increasing of 3D printers, there would be a growing community who would laugh and take rules for free, and print (for cheap). These people are essentially ripping off those who invest in the hobby and keep GW afloat. I would suggest believing a business should give us work they have built for free, is a bit entitled, and greedy.

 

They do give rules for free, you can go to GW shops and play for free, with their models and free tuition. Adults, can afford to pay.

My knee-jerk response to this is "Won't someone please think of the shareholders!"

While i accept your point that some will take advantage of any system - I still think that rules should be free (or part and parcel of the Warhammer App - let's say that costs you £5 a month, so it's not "FREE", just cheap), and that hard copies should be focused on fluff and art and hobby stuff, especially as errata and FAQs can make the rules obsolete in weeks, but not the fluff or the artwork.

[Tawnis]

Unfortunately I would side with GW. I dont believe rules 'should' be free. With the rapid increasing of 3D printers, there would be a growing community who would laugh and take rules for free, and print (for cheap). These people are essentially ripping off those who invest in the hobby and keep GW afloat. I would suggest believing a business should give us work they have built for free, is a bit entitled, and greedy.

 

They do give rules for free, you can go to GW shops and play for free, with their models and free tuition. Adults, can afford to pay.

 

Except this already exists. People can get the rules for free and GW hasn't been able to shut it down. It's just dependent on the people behind it choosing to keep doing so. Anyone with a 3D printer who wants to give GW zero dollars can already play 40k 9th edition. MOST of us know that while we have our gripes with GW, we do want to support the hobby we love. We'd just ratehr get something tangible out of it rather than blow hundreds of dollars on rulebooks, codices, supplements, white dwarfs articles, chapter approveds, ect, that will soon be outdated. 

[Rogue]

Unlike other people, I quite like having a real codex in hand. What I don't like is an expensive book becoming redundant after a couple of years - I was a little late getting the second 8th edition Marine codex, but then it was replaced six months later. Grr.

 

I'd rather see the codex slimmed right down to just the rules. When I've read through the whole book once, that's the bit that I'll return to. So charge me £10, give me the rules, and then feel free to replace them every year if you like - at £10 I can live with it.

 

And then put all the fluff and hobby stuff in a separate, longer-lasting book, which I can buy if I want to, but don't have to get again everytime the rules update.

 

This way, I won't have to carry a chunky book of mostly fluff to every game, don't feel bad about updates, and save a few quid (that will end up with GW anyway for more models).

[Doghouse]

I'd like to see a complete codex entry datacard in each box listing the details and core Stratagems and army special rules they can access on the back so you could just take the cards to a game rather than lug books around.

[Dark Shepherd]

I'd like to see a complete codex entry datacard in each box listing the details and core Stratagems and army special rules they can access on the back so you could just take the cards to a game rather than lug books around.

Datacards would be great and a lot of people would pay for them as a separate set, though the marine set of cards would be backbreaking

Edited October 31, 2021 by Dark Shepherd

[Wulf Vengis]

This discussion (and the 3d printing discussion) should be directed to the history of the home video recorder/player (VHS/betamax) and the response of television and movie studios, likewise a look into the theatre industry vs streaming amid the pandemic.

 

Ok, I was working out a scenario where GW dips a toe into 3d printing with a specially announced new character model made to order. They only print it for orders, not in physical stores etc. When I realized that no matter how you slice it 3d printing is not affordable for GW.

The number of orders for a model, bit, upgrade etc. would never balance with the time required. For a company as large add GW who sells a million boxes day one pre-order and back orders 10 million more on that same day, 3d printing could never be supported in reasonable manner. Imagine the number of printers they would need just to satisfy the B&Cs back need for bits or OOP models. Is impossible, flat out.

What isn't impossible or improbable is that the cost of the individual printing their own bits etc. becomes so accessible that GW is eventually forced to sell official 3d print files of their kind. Let's say they call these things .STC files and the file type can only be read by their own proprietary 3d print/design program (similar to the current 40k app). This program/app is Windows/Mac/Android/i Device compatible which allows you to purchase certain models/bits/etc for your own home printing. Maybe some of these files come and go from the store individually and you get a bundle pack at the end of the year for a reduced fee, maybe not. But you now have a catalogue of everything you might need or want for your collection. Who knows maybe with a 59.99$usd yearly fee. you get the catalogue plus exclusive "special" prints. And, just like any digital store currently if they pull something from the store it's gone forever if you didn't get it while you could, at least until they re-release it.

 

TLDR: 3d printing will never be accessible for GW via weight of orders. But GW selling digital rights to print your own models/bits/etc. will become a market to valuable for them to ignore.

Bottom line is that GW needs to not fear loss through consumer engagement and should embrace the willing nature of consumers to participate in new and efficient ways. Edited October 31, 2021 by Wulf Vengis

[Soldier of Dorn]

Core rules should absolutely be free -- in fact they already are on Warhammer Community. In fact, since the instruction booklets include basic unit profiles, there is an argument (a poor one, but one that GW is making with their existence) that between what is freely available online and a couple boxes of miniatures, you have all you need to play a basic game of 40k. In fact, that's precisely what is written there: "Used alongside the core rules found on warhammer40000.com, the essential rules below will get your new unit on the battlefield. For the full rules for this unit, see the Codex relevant to your army."

That being said, people don't do this and as usual it's because GW have completely bunged it up. To name but a few glaring flaws:

• Despite outlining different Power Level tiers in the core rules for missions, they don't include any hint of power levels in the instruction booklets.
• The statlines in the instruction booklets as well don't include anything beyond raw numbers, excluding various rules such as weapon types and the like which are already addressed in the core rules, and present the stats listed through the lens of some obtuse symbols that as far as I can tell, don't appear anywhere else.
• The rules PDF within its OWN PAGES directs you to reference the Core Rulebook.

Et cetera, et cetera. They are presenting two fundamentally incompatible components to you with the promise that you'll be able to use them for an introductory version of the game, a boldfaced untruth on the face of it.

Should 40k be free? is the primary question asked by this thread. Confessedly, I don't actually have an opinion on it, but GW have answered "yes." It's why they make overtures to that end. But games, whether free or paid, need to actually be playable, and that's where the whole thing breaks down. They've given the barest crumbs of the essentials in the free format and they're still lacking. At the very least provide power levels and, preferably, some level of rules interactivity beyond merely having their guns and being able to move. I'd even suggest, perhaps, that there could be rules levels as Classic Battletech has, with units  and special rules having known introductory/standard/advanced complexities (although that invites a whole host of issues with the publication format of that game.)

Edited October 31, 2021 by Soldier of Dorn

[Inquisitor Eisenhorn]

Core rules should absolutely be free -- in fact they already are on Warhammer Community. In fact, since the instruction booklets include basic unit profiles, there is an argument (a poor one, but one that GW is making with their existence) that between what is freely available online and a couple boxes of miniatures, you have all you need to play a basic game of 40k. In fact, that's precisely what is written there: "Used alongside the core rules found on warhammer40000.com, the essential rules below will get your new unit on the battlefield. For the full rules for this unit, see the Codex relevant to your army."

 

That being said, people don't do this and as usual it's because GW have completely bunged it up. To name but a few glaring flaws:

• Despite outlining different Power Level tiers in the core rules for missions, they don't include any hint of power levels in the instruction booklets.
• The statlines in the instruction booklets as well don't include anything beyond raw numbers, excluding various rules such as weapon types and the like which are already addressed in the core rules, and present the stats listed through the lens of some obtuse symbols that as far as I can tell, don't appear anywhere else.
• The rules PDF within its OWN PAGES directs you to reference the Core Rulebook.

Et cetera, et cetera. They are presenting two fundamentally incompatible components to you with the promise that you'll be able to use them for an introductory version of the game, a boldfaced untruth on the face of it.

 

Should 40k be free? is the primary question asked by this thread. Confessedly, I don't actually have an opinion on it, but GW have answered "yes." It's why they make overtures to that end. But games, whether free or paid, need to actually be playable, and that's where the whole thing breaks down. They've given the barest crumbs of the essentials in the free format and they're still lacking. At the very least provide power levels and, preferably, some level of rules interactivity beyond merely having their guns and being able to move. I'd even suggest, perhaps, that there could be rules levels as Classic Battletech has, with units  and special rules having known introductory/standard/advanced complexities (although that invites a whole host of issues with the publication format of that game.)

I think you actually have shown that GW definitely does not want the rules to be free, even if they try to appear to make a "free" version available to make the game appear to have a lower buy in.  It's not a good faith effort on their part to play with the free rules, for all the reasons you listed above.  They want the experience of "free" 40k to be unsatisfying and strongly incentivize you buying the "full" rules.  It actually really reminds me of "free-to-play" video games where if you want to have anything approaching a satisfying experience of the game you need to buy tokens or something, or a subscription to unlock the full game. 

 

Also I'm curious why anyone on this thread wouldn't want the rules to be free.  I'm pretty sure none of us are GW accountants or sales managers so it's only in our interest as people who play the game to have the rules be free.  And since smaller companies do fine giving their rules for free online and just selling models and campaign books, it's obvious that they could if they wanted to. 

 

Yes I'm sure lots of us want to support GW but sales are sales whether books or models, and free rules would make the game better for us. 

[Khornestar]

I will say, for all my frustration with this business model, I was pleasantly surprised to love the Black Templars supplement that came with the army box.

 

New art, new lore, new rules. All very high quality. Loved it and don’t regret keeping the book. Not sure I’d buy forthcoming codices, but it seems fair to give credit for a product I enjoyed and not just poop all over.