Need help: Deathwing buying guide

[Hannibal]

Hi all,

 

I´m thinking about starting with Deathwing and now I like to know what I should get first.

 

1.) There is/was a Chaplain in Terminator Armor available, isn´t it? I can´t find it...

2.) The Deathwing Knights boxed set is the right start to get all pieces for characters, Knights and unit champions?

3.) Am I right that the DW Knights boxed set also includes 5 spare torsos so that you can build Deathwing Terminators with the normal Terminator boxes?

4.) What about some Dreads? I was thinking about adding 1-2 venerable dreads to get some different units. Which loadout should I run?

5.) Anything I should get as fast as possible?

 

Thanks in advance!

Edited September 26, 2021 by Hannibal

[WrathOfTheLion]

To address them in order:

 

1. There is a chaplain in terminator armor, he's in Codex: Space Marines. There is also an Interrogator-Chaplain in terminator armor, whose datasheet is on page 67 of Codex Supplement: Dark Angels. I see what you mean by the kit, as it's not on the US store. It may be that the current finecast one is being retired. There was a promotional plastic one last year that I purchased to make an Interrogator-Chaplain.
2. Yes, it will build Deathwing Knights, Deathwing Champion, Deathwing Strikemaster (Lieutenant), Deathwing Apothecary, Deathwing Ancient
3. DW Knight box set is the same as the DW Terminator box set. You'll get spare front chest pieces, but not spare of the back chest pieces. I do not know if this is compatible with the normal Terminator kits. There's only a nominal price difference between them, so I would personally just buy the Deathwing Terminator box kit.
4. Dreads are good, I don't know the optimal loadout, but I do a twin linked las cannon and the standard fist normally, works really well.
5. Don't know on that, but I would think starting with some terminator squads is what I would get first

[UtariOnzo]

Terminator librarian is a good second character to get once you have a solid core

[phandaal]

You can find that Terminator Chaplain on ebay. Just search for "terminator chaplain" and a whole bunch of hits will pop up.

 

As far as Deathwing Knights go, my opinion is you are better off taking assault terminators/deathwing terminators with storm shields and thunder hammers. They'll get Obsec in a Deathwing Vanguard detachment, which is what you need if you're playing Deathwing.

 

Got a big blob of assault terminators that I stuck together from a box of standard assault termies and a deathwing termie box. Half thunder hammer half lightning claws. Love em. All parts are compatible between both boxes.

[Galthan Ironsturm]

Becarefull, Deathwing Terminator have one Watchers in thé Dark on kit, but Assault Terminator have teleport Homer...

 

5 Terminator with 3 lightning claw and 2 hammer/Shield are really résilients.

 

With dread, i only test FW Contemptor with Volkite and cyclone missiles...really violent.

 

I usually play one interrogator chaplain on Terminator Armour and Ezekiel on QG...

 

One Terminator squad with Hammer, Shield and claws

Two dw Terminator with plasma canon and Storm bolter ( Sargent with classic options, or if i have points with Hammer /Shield)

One/two Contemptor.

One/two Dw QG squad (1hammer/Shield, 1 claws)

 

I hope it's help you.

Friendly.

[phandaal]

Becarefull, Deathwing Terminator have one Watchers in thé Dark on kit, but Assault Terminator have teleport Homer...

 

 

Good point. The models themselves are identical, but you can make them a Deathwing squad if you want the extra Deny the Witch roll or make them an Assault squad if you want them to have the ability to go back up into reserves once per game.

[Tokugawa]

Old firstborn dreads are weaker on 9th rules, due to GW "writing the new rules closer to the box contents"policy. They can't compete with Redemptors or FW dreads.

[Galthan Ironsturm]

Yeah i'm agree Tokugawa, but DW Vanguard army don't have lot of antitank weapons...and Old dread are good choice.

 

Twin lascan or lascan missiles launcher are good options.

[XeonDragon]

I don't entirely agree with this. I math-hammered the crap out of venerable dreadnought vs redemptors a few months ago. In summary, venerable dreadnoughts with twin las cannons is comparable to a redemptor dreadnought on a points efficiency basis for both damage output and number of shots to kill. The venerable dreadnought has a 2+ WS/BS and which doesn't degrade (BS2+ with re-roll 1s makes it super reliable). It has both the -1 damage that the redemptor has, but also a 6+++. In contrast the redemptor has more dakka, but it degrades from a 3+ to a 5+. It has more wounds, but lacks a 6+++.

 

So, keeping in mind the 6+++ is swingy, it effectively means it has the equivalent of an extra wound or two, so basically the effect is it becomes a 9 or 10 wound dreadnought, so only 3-4 wounds less than the RD, but cheaper. If you roll hot, that VD can easily become (in effect) a 12+ wound model. Roll crap, it is an 8-wound model prone to a single volley of melta fire. Second, the VD's las cannon hit more consistently, but the damage is "swingier" (being D6). But on average, it means it does good work.

 

In contrast the RD has dakka, loads of it, but it degrades. People know it has dakka. They target it. So if you assume it lasts all 5 rounds (generous) and it gets 2 turns at full profile, 2 turns at 2nd tier and 1 turn at the bottom profile, the comparison with VD becomes interesting to say the least.

 

On a point-adjusted efficiency basis (i.e. how many points of actual damage inflicted per point cost of the model), the RD is superior to the VD, not by much, but superior (remembering the VD is 'swingier'). If you factor in the degrading profile of the RD, the VD actually comes out slightly ahead. 

 

I'm not saying to take VD's over RD's. But, based on that mathahmmer and my experiences, I have found that a VD is pretty good, especially if it sits at the back blazing away for a couple of turns before moving forwards. In contrast I find RDs work best by moving and shooting from the get-go, and work best if you assume you will only get 2 or 3 turns out of them. They are melee monsters with that D3+3 fist. Strangely enough, I find that 1 VD and 1RD works well, the RD getting stuck in, the VD hanging back.  

 

I think there is a role for VDs as a below-the-radar, efficient and less-obvious threat than RDs. Now... all that said, VDs compared to vol cons? Yeah, nah, no comparison! 

 

 

 

Old firstborn dreads are weaker on 9th rules, due to GW "writing the new rules closer to the box contents"policy. They can't compete with Redemptors or FW dreads.

Edited September 29, 2021 by XeonDragon

[Master Sheol]

Mathammer is the DEATH of the game

If you Want you pkay a game based on math pkay chess

40K is a game made of passion hobby a narrative

 

To reply to the first post

1) Yes there is the good old resin Terminator Chaplain plus two limited plastic ones

2) Yes. Out of them you can make: DKW, DWT, Apothecary, Ancient, DW Champion, DW Master, DW Strike master and so on even a Chaplain and a libreria through kitbashing

3) Yes. I converted many regular terminators this way (about 30)

4) I have many DW dreadnoughts and i never field my DW without one of my venerabile dreads (usually with twin lascannons to Hunt tanks)

5) many terminators ofc. To start i would get 2 DW boxes and 2 vanilla assault terminators boxes

[Galthan Ironsturm]

Friends, pizza,beer and cookies...it's 40k!

 

You Can mix all vanilla terminator mini with terminator DW mini.

 

In addition, check datasheet, you Can inclued Bladeguards, Ancien Bladeguard...all datasheet with DW hability.

Edited October 14, 2021 by Galthan Ironsturm

[Karhedron]

Multimelta is a good option for Dreads. Shorter range than Lascannons but hits harder and is cheaper.

[march10k]

As far as Deathwing Knights go, my opinion is you are better off taking assault terminators/deathwing terminators with storm shields and thunder hammers. They'll get Obsec in a Deathwing Vanguard detachment, which is what you need if you're playing Deathwing.

 

Horses for courses.  I like to have ONE unit of 7-8 DWK with all the supporting toys needed for them to charge the enemy's key unit on turn two and make it into red mist, then jump on an objective.  OBSEC isn't a big deal if they just MDK anything that gets too close.  You also have the ability to strip OBSEC via a libby if it's a situation where a mob of gaunts is swarming them or something.  In general, I very much prefer tactical terminators, but having that one hammer that can take down anything you throw it at is pretty indispensable. 

 

But I'm not a purist.  I never leave home without my ambulance.  Therefore, I never play *pure* deathwing.  In fact, I usually run a triwing list with assault intercessors, DWT, DWK, ambulance, Azzy, Zeke, master of sanctity, bikes, and inceptors.

[Master Sheol]

I do agree about DWK capable of taking objectives even without obsec cause they are able to annihilate almost all enemy Units from objectives

 

I charged with 5 DWK supported by a TDA chaplain a large unit of genestealers with broodlord and they obliterated them in the first turn of melee having in return only two wounds (not enough to remove one)

They are one of the hardest hitting SM units ever

[exsulis81]

How do people feel about the contemptor vs leviathan dreadnought?

[bigtrouble]

How do people feel about the contemptor vs leviathan dreadnought?

I love the contemptor model, especially the FW relic ones. They are also the more points efficient choice for competitive. You’ll see lots of lists running 2 or 3 twin volkite relic contemptors because they get all your buffs, can’t get bracketed, do a ton of S6 damage 2 shots, and most importantly drop mortal wounds on 6s to wound. The leviathan is good, but gets bracketed quickly, costs much more, and it’s highest output weapon choice is S7, which isn’t helpful into most metas.

[Skywrath]

 

How do people feel about the contemptor vs leviathan dreadnought?

I love the contemptor model, especially the FW relic ones. They are also the more points efficient choice for competitive. You’ll see lots of lists running 2 or 3 twin volkite relic contemptors because they get all your buffs, can’t get bracketed, do a ton of S6 damage 2 shots, and most importantly drop mortal wounds on 6s to wound. The leviathan is good, but gets bracketed quickly, costs much more, and it’s highest output weapon choice is S7, which isn’t helpful into most metas.

 

 

Except for the grav flux bombard which is S8, -3, 3 damage for 2d3 shots with blast, and the cyclonic melta lance which is S9, -4, D6+2 damage with D6 blast keyword.

[bigtrouble]

 

 

How do people feel about the contemptor vs leviathan dreadnought?

 

I love the contemptor model, especially the FW relic ones. They are also the more points efficient choice for competitive. You’ll see lots of lists running 2 or 3 twin volkite relic contemptors because they get all your buffs, can’t get bracketed, do a ton of S6 damage 2 shots, and most importantly drop mortal wounds on 6s to wound. The leviathan is good, but gets bracketed quickly, costs much more, and it’s highest output weapon choice is S7, which isn’t helpful into most metas.

 

Except for the grav flux bombard which is S8, -3, 3 damage for 2d3 shots with blast, and the cyclonic melta lance which is S9, -4, D6+2 damage with D6 blast keyword.

By highest output, I meant most shots. Each twin volkite is heavy 8, so many more chances for mortals on 6s to wound, especially since it’s always BS 3+. I’m sure you can make an argument for why the leviathan has value, especially as dedicated anti-tank, but the above is why the most competitive marine builds use this vol-cons.

[Galthan Ironsturm]

I usually play one/two Contemptor Relic with twin volkite/cyclone missiles launcher and one Léviathan Dreadnought with Storm Canon and twin volkite...put a Primaris Techmarine on middle and drop lot of dice on shoot turn...