A Return to Titan....

[Prot]

So I'm reluctantly creating this post, largely in hopes of finding an interesting, but competitive direction with Grey Knights that won't 'conflict' with my other projects.

It's been a long time since I was active here. For a while the negativity here got to me, and I had to step away from the GK forum. It feels like many of that 'crew' are gone, and there is a lot to be positive about.

So where to begin?

This was my first completed Grey Knights army, sold quite a while ago (I don't have pictures of my old metal GK army... it was pretty horrible.)

And this was the second (Or third if you count the metal era) GK army I sold online:

And now I find myself trying to piece together a list for this weekend.... starting from scratch.

So without throwing everything I own into a single list, let me share some of what I do actually own as we speak (Or can proxy):

- GK half of HexFire Box. (I will use Crowe initially for sure as he just looks amazing).

- Dreadnought

- Rhino/Razorback/Landraider

- Termie Libby / NDK GM (as per box above) / Assassins / Greyfax / Techmarine

- 5 Termies (Unarmed)

- approx 15 additional strike bodies from above.

So it looks like aside from proxying Termies, I will have to throw everything into a 2K list!!!

What I need to know for now is loadout advice. I haven't glued arms on to the infantry at this point. The Termies are leaning towards just swords, with maybe an old school hammer toting Justicar.

Strikes/Interceptors seem to be best with swords/halberds ? (I do like the idea of wounding all the new T5 infantry on 3's instead of 4's)

For additional shooty weapons, the additional weapons seem a little too pricey, and not advisable unless there is a way to move and shoot without penalty?

Any thoughts on that?

Also, as usual I have too many HQ's. Is it a massive loss to shift an NDK to Heavy over HQ? I know I won't get WL traits, relics, etc but I'm starting to wonder if this is a horrible idea or not?

Also looking for Dreadnought advice. On the surface the normal dread seems a better choice than the Ven dread for the + to save power? What about load out? Punchy/melta? Or pure shooty?

Thanks for any advice!

[Icosiel]

Third GK army! Wow! And I thought I was committed to Titan with my 5k force!

[jaxom]

Competitive can mean a lot of things, so I'm making a wild guess and hope you meant tournament play.

 

I'm basing this on other discussions I read, but GK load out at tournaments seems to revolve on how likely it is you'll face Orks and their Ramshackle (-1D if the weapon is less than Str 8) rule in large numbers. All the 2D GK weapons lose potency due to it and it may be more worthwhile to go with a higher volume of 1D shots or not take a heavy weapon and use the points elsewhere.

 

Getting the bonus strength from halberds is very nice, but remember Hammerhands can help offset lower strength. This can come into consideration if you need save points for other things or if you are thinking about falchions for quantity over quality. I haven't done the math on it, personally.

 

Multi-smiting things out of existence, reliance on psykers means an enemy Culuxus assassin can be really bad. A reliable counter-assassin assassin can help deal with that.

[Skywrath]

We aren't efficient for what we bring to the competitive scene outside of MW spamming (and I am 100% ready to dispute that point with the first person that says otherwise). Playing GK in a tournament setting is equivalent of playing in hard mode, and I like to think this edition we lost a lot of flavour (RIP psilencer purgation squads with AA). Are we better than what we were pre-Psychic Awakening? Yes, but we aren't as durable (think mages - high damage, low durability). Sure we do a lot of damage and MW spamming, but once we get targeted our overcosted stratagems (like our 2CP/3CP transhuman, and 1CP zone of warding) and lack of decent defensive stratagems will eventually balance out the damage we inflict before the opponent's turn. And there is still a fact that we are still CP hungry. There was a lot of missed potential in this codex, and frankly I don't understand a lot of decisions they made with GK. That being said, nothing will deter me from playing my GK no matter how bad they are. If this doesn't deter you.. welcome to the Halls of Titan, Neophyte! 

 

=][= We are the Hammer! =][=

 

We gained a lot of new abilities, but in terms of competitive list-building, you'd want a lot of PAGK, 3-4NDK's, Draigo, Chaplain, GMNDK (more on Draigo later), and perhaps a 3m paladin squad with hammers. Then you have your usual elements of 2 x 10 interceptors and your 2-3 strike squads.

 

Default loadout for PA units is Swords, although I give my justiciar a halberd. I think it's optional which one is which - but like you I like wounding T5 on 3's (damn blasted dice don't like rolling higher than 3's). As for special weapons, there is an argument to take them, but in two circumstances - 4 heavy weapon paladins in a squad of 10, and 4 heavy weapon purifiers in a squad of 10. You can use purgation squads, but honestly, I just pass over them because of the gutted Astral Aim power. Problem is if you bring either Paladins or purifiers in force, you'd bring Draigo, as only he can offer them re-rolls, as they don't have the brotherhood keyword. GMNDK's/NDK's you'd want them equipped with swords, psycannon and psilencer, points permitting ofc.

 

WL traits - Unyielding anvil is good, also I'd be running Demon Slayer perhaps for the +1 attack and if you run into Morty and his companions to shut-off invuln. I even came up with a 100 pts Rapiers Captain with Blade of the Forsworn that statistically one shots Mortarion in a single turn! Nothing really of note here other than the Divination trait from the Prescient Brethren that gives you a CP on a WC6. 

 

Default brotherhood of choice is Rapiers, but I think the default brotherhood of choice will be Prescient Brethren/Preservers after the Convergence MW nerf. Swordbearers if you are running full NDK, but imo, that is really not necessary as you are wounding most things on 2's/3's anyways through your heavy psycannon/psilencer with a combination of psychic onslaught strat (which thankfully has been reduced in cost). 

 

I do have a lot of ideas with other brotherhoods, if you are keen - send a message, happy to discuss them :)

[Archadeus]

Suprise Skywrath im ready to say other wise, i think we are very effecient in combat thanks to interceptors and brother hood buffs. Also our shooting isnt that bad thanks to dreadknights. Other than that he's right. We have 3 units holding us up competetively, but casually i think all our units are viable. To answer your questions, ill give you some insight on my personal preferences 

 

1. swords on everything with hammerhand and halberds for anything else. Drukari and admech are very apparent for obvious reasons and wounding on 2s after a smite or a brother hood power is too juicy for me to give up. 

2. The only shooty squad ive gone for is a 5 man combat squaded paladin unit coupled with draigo, the other half with an apothecary. It is fantastic i must say, give them ethereal Castigation and they can shoot untouched until mid-lategame.

3.Standard Dreads are very much worth it and actually shoot better than a GMDK with a techmarine following him, since they get rerrolls and he doesnt. Also your first wlt and relic are free so wouldnt make sense not to take atleast one. Sky hit on the big 3 and im also a fan of the blades of victory WLT since redeploy shenanigans are really nasty. couple that with the Fortelling locus character upgrade and you can have a serious alpha strike going. Oh and servant of the throne character upgrade and the Sigil of Exigence relic are godsends on GMDKs. 

4. When it comes to dreads i think its melta punchy all day, i always yeet my dreads into a back corner to disrupt an opponents backline and even if they dont kill anything it forces your opponent to deal with it.

[Skywrath]

Suprise Skywrath im ready to say other wise, i think we are very effecient in combat thanks to interceptors and brother hood buffs. Also our shooting isnt that bad thanks to dreadknights. Other than that he's right. We have 3 units holding us up competetively, but casually i think all our units are viable. To answer your questions, ill give you some insight on my personal preferences 

 

1. swords on everything with hammerhand and halberds for anything else. Drukari and admech are very apparent for obvious reasons and wounding on 2s after a smite or a brother hood power is too juicy for me to give up. 

2. The only shooty squad ive gone for is a 5 man combat squaded paladin unit coupled with draigo, the other half with an apothecary. It is fantastic i must say, give them ethereal Castigation and they can shoot untouched until mid-lategame.

3.Standard Dreads are very much worth it and actually shoot better than a GMDK with a techmarine following him, since they get rerrolls and he doesnt. Also your first wlt and relic are free so wouldnt make sense not to take atleast one. Sky hit on the big 3 and im also a fan of the blades of victory WLT since redeploy shenanigans are really nasty. couple that with the Fortelling locus character upgrade and you can have a serious alpha strike going. Oh and servant of the throne character upgrade and the Sigil of Exigence relic are godsends on GMDKs. 

4. When it comes to dreads i think its melta punchy all day, i always yeet my dreads into a back corner to disrupt an opponents backline and even if they dont kill anything it forces your opponent to deal with it.

 

Oh yeah, I just thought the melee potential of the GK was so obvious to everyone by now, I seem to have overlooked it. Carry on! Not too impressed with our shooting, although I am happy we got upgrades to our weapons to more or less (this being the keyword here) satisfy our shooting capacity. But the leaking bucket of the Grey Knights still has the other glaring holes that need to be patched, which I addressed. 

[Cleon]

On a similar note - Interceptors!

Is it worth dropping an incinerator or two into a large/full unit of Interceptors? with the 12 inch flam range tying in well with the rapid fire range of the stormbolters, it seems a good synergy to help hose down the unit adjacent to your target as you charge in (as you don't want to fail your charge by hitting that unit...)

[Archadeus]

Unfortunately losing out on close combat weapons is too much of a sacrifice Imo. But I'm going to try out an incinerator bomb with purgations deep striking in my next crusade. I think it would be really nasty vs t3 and t5 Orks

[WAR]

Welcome Back Prot!

[Trollbeard]

Welcome back Prot! I look forward to seeing/hearing about your progress! I remember reading your battle reports from 7th edition! They are part of what inspired my Grey knight force!

[Psilence]

WB prot.

Glad to have you back.

[Captain Coolpants]

Im no good for any real advice, as I haven't played for a while.. But definitely keeping an eye on this. Always love seeing your painted minis!

[Prot]

Welcome Back Prot!

 

 

Welcome back Prot! I look forward to seeing/hearing about your progress! I remember reading your battle reports from 7th edition! They are part of what inspired my Grey knight force!

 

 

WB prot.

Glad to have you back.

 

First off... thanks so much for the kind words guys. I really mean that, it's very inspiring to know if even 1-2 people remember all those old batreps/armies... fun times. 

 

Secondly I have just come off a great run with Thousand Sons and have used that to fund this army from scratch again... as such I don't have a lot of options right now which is probably a good thing because it will force me to make/play units that are sub-standard.

 

We know from history GW has a way of pumping/dumping the points on certain options depending on meta. For example I anticipate trying the Purgation squad, just because my meta is in heavy (GW tournament style) cover. 

 

I also see Termies aren't popular in tournament play but I just can't leave them out... it's a crime to not play these and they don't seem that bad, and again a slight tweak to points, and these units may swap their appeal.

 

For now I'm trying a very basic list. My first game is tonight! No idea what I'm playing against. Wish me luck!

[Helias_Tancred]

Welcome back.

[Prot]

Thanks very much again for the warm welcome.

Well I managed to get my first game in with the new codex. I won't be very detailed about it since again I am simply using most of what I own at the present and otherwise I'm going to experiment with less than optimal units for my own research.

I puled out all the old GK stuff I had, put in the stuff from the Hexfire Box, and proxied some minor stuff... like Dreadnoughts. Did you know Dreadnoughts aren't really part of the main line anymore? And further it means if you want a classic dread from GW, it looks like you have to order it through mail order.

Anyway, I decided to start off with Swordbearers simply because I like Dreadnoughts, and it looks like there's some edge here for vehicles with this Brotherhood, and vehicles. Obviously the trait for the WC5 action for a 4++ dread is very cool, while allowing another (less aggressive) Dread/NDK to rely on the potential 2+.

So that was the premise for the list, and I'll keep it short by saying I ended up playing against Blood Angels. My opponent is a long time player, but his list is not optimal either. He knew I would be bringing out GK, and was somewhat limited in my options. His list still had strong elements but mostly based around tons of Death Company, Astrorath, Chappy on Bike, new MM ATV's, lots of speed, and a Macroplasma Redemptor with lots of troops.

As I pulled out what I owned I thought it would be funny to pull out new Crowe and put him next to good old 'Finecast' Crowe (limp sword and all...)

They've come a long way!

Anyway the game was very tight the first two turns. I went second, and my list was a Battalion and Patrol because of all the HQ's I wanted to try:

- Crowe/Libby/GMNDK/ Techpriest

- A Culexus !!

- Lots of strikes (3 squads)/ Termies w/Hammers

- Rhino 5 Interceptors

- Purgation squad w/4 Psycannons (these really should be assault weapons)

- 2 MM Dreads

- squad of action monkeys (Thralls?)

My list was built on the premise of infantry / Rhino pushing for quarters with dual Dreads/NDK to bully mid.

The game was very tight going into T3, but that's when we went from the GK being one point below the Blood Angels to completely flipping the table. Where he was the aggressor and had me pinned for a while with a ton of Death Company, somehow I managed to fight that line off.

It was a crazy good smite I got off from a Dread who was stuck in Close combat with his Astrorath. Then Crowe gets out of his Rhino and hits the Chappy on Bike (who was also in CC with my last Dread) with Purifying Flame, and kills him as well.

That big psychic phase saved my back line. This allowed me to keep the Techpriest safe who buffed the Dread up to a 4++, then proceeded to heal him. Finally a squad of Hammerhanded Strikes finished off the remaining 8 or so Death Company.

Unfortunately on the opposite side was a very overly aggressive NDK getting sucker punched in the batteries by 2 x 10 man jump pack Death Company Squads and Jump Pack Chappy buffing them up. I think he over committed, and I fought on death to get the Chappy down.

With my NDK dead, his Jump Company was somewhat stuck... my Purgation squad came in, sucked up a bunch of CP and just really didn't do much....

On the far end of his table edge (which if you know Blood Angels, you know they have trouble retaining a true block of Deep Strike denial) was pretty wide open. He had troops and Supressors guarding his rear flank..... But the Libby and Termies were really good here. A true rock.

I know Termies get a lot of flak but this was the best role I could find for them. +1 to hit strat w/hammers and Libby changing the tide/improving their save.

By the end of bottom of T3, the game was swinging towards GK in a big way. We were within 10 points of each other but the board control was huge at this point in favour of the GK.

So the BA wanted to concede at this point. As my opponent pointed out there was just no way he could gain points with one squad of jump company and 10 classic marines.

And that's how we wrapped up game 1! The GK are certainly different from Thousand Sons. They are more straight forward, a lot less... jank, but a very strong CC presence.

Quick Notes:

- Purgation squads need a serious tweak. The weapons for sure are just not quite right.

- Too many CP got sucked up by my dual detachment. I have to pinch off an HQ.

- The psychic action secondary is tough to pull off and be aggressive. This army wants to smash face, and I tried to be more ranged with it. Casting actions on Objectives slows all that down a bit. (Plus we played a 5 objective map).

- You fail a LOT more tests than Thousand Sons do. That +1 to cast is certainly missed.

- Dreads work. I think they really were decent. The odd thing is Thousand Sons help them a lot too, but GK in this brotherhood and a Techpriest are a fun/decent combo.

Thanks for checking this out. I'm working on a ton of models right now. Lots of experimenting in the base armour colours, etc.

[Trollbeard]

Sounds like a real nail biter game! Always the best!

 

I find my Games go along a similar route to yours, either right or behind by a little bit, but as the game goes on, I am able to get more bodies on objectives and remove my opponents. I quite often have a come from behind victory.

 

I want purgation squads to work as well, but with the nerf to AA and the change of ToC they seem to expensive. I wish they had a built in rule to buff them, similar to eradication’s. Not that I mean they shoot twice, but something on their data sheet to separate them from strike squads or even purifiers.

As it stands it’s a better option to kit out purifiers for a purgation squad’s role.

 

I find myself really liking this codex, even though we lost a fair amount, I think we gained a lot also.

 

Thanks for the mini write up!

[Prot]

Thanks for reading it.

 

I had another go with the same list against.... newer Admech. The player was just getting back into Admech after a hiatus so he was quite rusty (pun intended).

 

Admech with tons of Skitarii, loads of HQ's as normal, playing Mars with Infiltrators/Rustalkers and Breachers as well. Kastelans with flamers and fists...

 

This game I got first turn, used my redeploy ability to push my Melta Dreads up front and center. I know it was a suicide run but the Admech deployed enough up front that I knew with first turn AND the redeploy I could crash his front lines including the Kastelans in T1.... and that's what I did, right after giving one of the Dreads the Brotherhood actionable ability of a 4++ on one of the dreads.

 

It did work... it boxed him in for about 1 full battle round. One 'gotcha' moment though, after I killed some Kastelans I took my 4++ dread and consolidated into his giant 20 man Vanguard squad. In his turn he tells me he can move them away and shoot normal because of some ability he gave them pre-game.... lol So of course in hindsight I never would have done this. This is something we normally pre-warn each other about since this edition has so many 'gotcha moments'. I am thinking he simply forgot.

 

So that being the case it really didn't slow him down much because he shot the crud out of the one dread, and best thing was... it had an amazing explosion which hit several bundles of Skitarii, characters, and put 3 mortals on another Kastelan which would kill it. My own other Dreadnought also took 3! And he died shortly after.

 

Long story short the game went as I kind of expected. He was a little too boxed in to score early, and I pressed my early advantage. This game went total opposite of the last game... I started with a big lead in this game and barely pulled out the win by end game. I had almost nothing on the table, but he ran out of opportunity to catch me on points.

 

I did try to use my Purgation squad a bit differently. I sat deep striked on an objective, shot up some laschickens, actually killed 2!! And sat there all game. Probably the best place for them.

 

Also still not very big on Crowe. I love the model but wow did they ever do a better job on the Thousand Sons character here. I couldn't play without an Infernal Master, whereas I don't see Crowe making any serious list at this time.

[Trollbeard]

Good job on the win! I honestly think Admech and DE

For that matter are too powerful and need to be toned down.

 

Were you playing the same list as your first game?

[Prot]

Good job on the win! I honestly think Admech and DE

For that matter are too powerful and need to be toned down.

 

Were you playing the same list as your first game?

 

Thank you. Yes, identical. 

 

My next game is tonight. I just got a second NDK in the mail yesterday. So it would go in the Heavy slot (I have no desire for a second GMNDK right now.) So he would go in the heavy slot and I'd pull my Asassin and a Dread.

 

The problem is my list is working. It's weird, but it's working. I'm just using the 2 Dreads as mid table bullies pumped up by the Techpriest.

 

I don't know how lucky I'm getting though... .might be just luck.

 

Tonight is unusual in that I know I am playing SoB. I will not list tailor, but I think this is a horrid match up for GK so it should be interesting. 

 

+EDIT+

 

I may change my Brotherhood to the Wardmakers. This is definitely sounding hypocritical, however I have to confess I have been waiting for my Codex from GW for weeks. (The store kept running out, and never getting stock: As a side note they claim things are getting bad for Canada/US warehousing again, becoming nearly as bad as the original Covid breakout.)

 

So I have cards/etc, but I realize now there is one Brotherhood that has the chance of not being denied. This is a long shot being you need an 8+ test.... and it 'wastes' a Warlord Trait (Lore Master). However, I have played a LOT of games with Thousand Sons and denials in these armies can be game wreckers. With Thousand Sons there is an easier way... you pass a test, even just barely, and you simply use Cabal Points to make it undeniable. 

Edited October 7, 2021 by Prot

[Helias_Tancred]

I love that scratch terrain! Looks great!

Edited October 7, 2021 by Helias Tancred

[Prot]

Thanks! That's an old picture. Back in the day we had to make our terrain... and we loved it!!! 

 

Anyway, the game I had was against the AdMech and I did pull off the win, but it doesn't mean a heck of a lot because if I'm being honest my opponent was VERY new to Admech.

 

Tonight I play again.... this time I'm using Preservers. The idea is to ... preserve! Terminators mostly..

 

I do have a question regarding this. The power Preservers have say if it's passed, and the target is within 3" of the Apothecary they get a 5+ FNP instead of 6+.

 

So if I take the Preservers WL trait "Radiant Exemplar" which extends aura's of the bearer by 3". That would make the Narthecium 6" insteand of 3". Would that affect the psychic power as well? 

 

Just curious as that is my intent of taking the WL trait which is also Preserver specific and seems to fit with the Preserver Brotherhood power.

 

Also still using 2 Dreads. I really like them and this is a good brotherhood to use. 

 

I'm not sure who I'm playing tonight (random match ups). I will let you guys know how it goes.

[casb1965]

If you give the Apothecary the WL trait yes it does as thd Narthecium is an Aura effect.

I was looking at giving that trait to a Librarian with the Nullifier Array for a 12" no Perils aura.

[Gnomeo]

I don't think it affects the power as the power says you have to be within 3" not within range of narthecium.

[casb1965]

I don't think it affects the power as the power says you have to be within 3" not within range of narthecium.

Well spotted, I assumed because the Narthecium was an Aura of 3" it would extend but the power is worded such that you have to be within 3" of thd Apothecary not the Narthecium aura.

[Prot]

Took a while to figure out how I want to do the blue sheen/metallics... finished a dude: