Black Templar teaser & what it means for space marines?

[Orange Knight]

I think the traditional Scouts are redundant in terms of what they offer on the tabletop.

 

What I wouldn't be opposed to is a troop unit specifically geared for value. A Primaris unit with the same stat-line, aside from reduced save and inferior weapon, and a much lower cost. Omit the infiltration rules as those are best served by Infiltrators, Incursors and to a different extent Reivers, to keep the points low.

 

Imagine a 13 point-per-model Primaris infantry unit with a 4+ save, armed with a Bolt Carbine. This would offer the army something new as you could run a greater number of lower quality bodies. The current Intercessor, at 20 points, is still a significant investment.

 

They could be called Primaris Apprentices, or Primaris Probationers. I'm sure GW could give them a suitable name.

Edited October 6, 2021 by Orange Knight

[TheNewman]

There's a lot of Chaos and Xenos books and unit kits badly in need of an update, I could totally see GW using Supplements as a way to keep drip-feeding Imperial releases that need minimal model kit support while they're working on that.

 

I'll be immensely surprised if they do full new units for other chapters. Consider the fact templars didn't actually get anything new, its all technically just updates of things that are already established.

 

Sword Brethren beg to differ. Edited October 6, 2021 by TheNewman

[Jorin Helm-splitter]

Primaris Scouts are an interesting idea because Infiltrators, Incursors and Eliminators have pretty much taken over Scouts' traditional roles while the latter have been strangely bumped into the Elites section. Neophytes are absolutely fitting for Templars but less so for other Chapters.

 

Oh I agree that there isn't a need for them, but it seems that GW's goal with the primaris lineup  is to have as many overlapping elements as possible. Orange Knight shows one example of a niche they could fill, and I also could see them having an ability that they can shoot while completing actions. That said if I'm being honest I don't want scouts, it's just I expect GW to go there.

 

 

I'll be immensely surprised if they do full new units for other chapters. Consider the fact templars didn't actually get anything new, its all technically just updates of things that are already established.

 

I think a better upgrade sprue (and perhaps updating outstanding characters) for all chapters is about the most people should anticipate in terms of chapter specific updates.

 

Even for stuff like DA/SW/BA, I'd not expect anything "new", purely an update to some existing units, and I agree with others that those three are probably behind the other first founding chapters in terms of update order (with the exception being if GW do indeed go the campaign book update route for those chapters).

 

I really think that the reason GW switched to the existing supplement strategy was because of how well its worked in HH. Part of that model has been unique units. I also think they're aware that there are players who make their own chapter to be able to use multiple supplements. So I would be surprised if they didn't have a unique unit or two for each fraction. 

[Blindhamster]

There's a lot of Chaos and Xenos books and unit kits badly in need of an update, I could totally see GW using Supplements as a way to keep drip-feeding Imperial releases that need minimal model kit support while they're working on that.

 

I'll be immensely surprised if they do full new units for other chapters. Consider the fact templars didn't actually get anything new, its all technically just updates of things that are already established.

Sword Brethren beg to differ.

 

Sword Brethren are an update of a classic BT unit.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Primaris Scouts are an interesting idea because Infiltrators, Incursors and Eliminators have pretty much taken over Scouts' traditional roles while the latter have been strangely bumped into the Elites section. Neophytes are absolutely fitting for Templars but less so for other Chapters.

I’m very curious to see the supporting lore.

[Jorin Helm-splitter]

There's a lot of Chaos and Xenos books and unit kits badly in need of an update, I could totally see GW using Supplements as a way to keep drip-feeding Imperial releases that need minimal model kit support while they're working on that.

 

I'll be immensely surprised if they do full new units for other chapters. Consider the fact templars didn't actually get anything new, its all technically just updates of things that are already established.

Sword Brethren beg to differ.

 

 

That's a good point. I do think GW wants to spread the supplements out so they can have a marine release every couple of months. I do think they'll wait to start on supplements until they've released a few more codex though, I really wouldn't surprise me if they are 2-3 months behind right now.

 

 

Primaris Scouts are an interesting idea because Infiltrators, Incursors and Eliminators have pretty much taken over Scouts' traditional roles while the latter have been strangely bumped into the Elites section. Neophytes are absolutely fitting for Templars but less so for other Chapters.

I’m very curious to see the supporting lore.

 

 

I'm curious as well about the lore i'll probably pick up a BT supplement when it has its regular release.

 

I don't really want primaris scouts I just have a hard time not seeing GW take advantage of the low hanging fruit that the BT release is providing. I'd much rather see a veteran squad, and characters in gravis or on bikes.

[Mandragola]

I had kind of expected a Primaris Scout squad to come alongside the BT release, so they could make Neophytes and everyone else could make Scouts. That hasn't happened, so now I really don't know.

 

I'm a bit surprised there's still not been a Primaris aircraft of some sort, or indeed any model that represents how they get down off their ships. I feel like those are needed more than another infantry unit - though some sort of jump-pack-equipped unit would definitely make sense.

[Marshal Loss]

Primaris Scouts could still come out e.g. in a Kill Team release, seeing as those faction vs faction boxes are every quarter.

[WrathOfTheLion]

Definitely will see this eventually. Things like Interrogator-Chaplains and Sanguinary Priests are a given at some point.

 

Dark Angels probably need the most to get off the ground, although some of it could be added as general SM stuff. They need to add something to get Objective Secured for Deathwing, as Bladeguard Veterans do not. So either a specific Dark Angel Bladeguard-style squad that's a 5-10 man squad, or that ends up as a general SM release later. Some unique Deathwing unit would also make sense. They also will probably get some sort of Deathwing-specific Bladeguard Lieutenant/Captain model, as they'll want to scale how the army looks that way. Likely as well, some form of Bladeguard Apothecary, Champion, etc., which may be unique to DA, depending on how they do it. I could see a fairly versatile Deathwing Bladeguard Command Squad sort of kit that might cover most of all of that.

 

Ravenwing probably needs a bit more as well, you need to be able to field more bodies on bikes than the Outrider kit will allow for currently. Again, full command squad stuff (Apothecary, Champion, Ancient, etc.), as well as a unique unit, some Captain on bike and Lieutenants, either as an upgrade to the storm speeder or in bike form.

 

For upgrade kits, DA are probably also the one that needs it the most, as the newest Deathwing transfers are unavailable outside of the starter box, and there's no Ravenwing/Deathwing upgrade kit, shoulderpads, etc. for Primaris as of now.

 

Granted, I think we'll see Blood Angels first, as I really expect to see Dante and all sooner than later.

 

For general Space Marines, currently the specific stuff like Victrix Guard are scoped out from Ultramarines successors as of now. Not to say they can't do it, but the successors of the other chapters don't adhere as strongly to their parent chapter as say Unforgiven or Blood Angels chapters do. I have no problem with them getting things, but we might see some changes in how those chapters relate to their parent chapter if they end up adding those unique units.

Edited October 7, 2021 by WrathOfTheLion

[phandaal]

A refresh or upgrade sprue for Ravenwing would be great. Anyone who has stuck an old bike next to an Outrider or Primaris squad knows how small they look... it's like your little cousin tagging along on his bicycle. Actually that is why I have been converting all of my Ravenwing command squad models by kitbashing that kit with Outriders. Looks so much better alongside newer models.

 

Disagree on the Bladeguard thing though. We just need existing scaled-up Terminators to get the Deathwing treatment. Files for it are already there, as shown from Space Marine Heroes and Chaos Terminators.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I’d like to see Bladeguard get access to thunderhammers.

[Dark Shepherd]

Then theyd be Thunderguard.

A different but much cooler unit

Axes would be more likely/befitting

[phandaal]

Well, when you put it like that... Thunderguard does sound way cooler.

[ChargingSoll]

For DA I'm more interested what will happen to the deathwing, will they try to recreate the iconic terminators for the primaris or will they continue in the current way of more veterans then Heavy side of things like the bladeguard. Maybe a heavier(maybe melee) version of gravis to get the better save and invul. Alot of ways forwards be can't wait to see what. Outriders seem to be the future for Ravenwing with different riders and loadouts for them.

 

Edit: what do you want for deathwing in the future, I would be happy with our own version of sword brethren the templars just got shown with melee and combi-weapons like our old company veterans kit and cover of our 9th codex.

Edited October 7, 2021 by ChargingSoll

[WrathOfTheLion]

They could do new terminators, what exactly goes in that slot, I don't know. But clearly there's a nice hole where Obsec is concerned for Primaris Deathwing, so something has to go there.

Edited October 7, 2021 by WrathOfTheLion

[brother_b]

I’m really jealous of the weapons options potentially available for the black templars. I recently started a white scars primaris army and was surprised to see how limited the weapon options are for primaris characters and units.

 

I’d love to take a primaris captain with lightning claws, or have access to captains or lieutenants locked to other chapters.

 

I have high hopes seeing the black templar options.

[Helias_Tancred]

I’m really jealous of the weapons options potentially available for the black templars. I recently started a white scars primaris army and was surprised to see how limited the weapon options are for primaris characters and units.

 

I’d love to take a primaris captain with lightning claws, or have access to captains or lieutenants locked to other chapters.

 

I have high hopes seeing the black templar options.

 

Agreed. The Black Templar release is a sign of things to come for the rest of the marine line in terms of expanded primaris weaponry options. Rest assured its coming (just don't hold your breath lol). Case in point, that model-magazine sub had a primaris captain miniature armed with power sword AND a plasma pistol which is currently illegal. I think it's coming.

[Helias_Tancred]

I also think GW just needs to bite the bullet and simply release primaris terminators. I think a unit as fundamental to the hobby as terminators are, and there still is no new armor as good as it, means you can just do primaris terminators and they'd be a massive hit on multiple fronts- model line, on the tabletop as far as stats go, and in the lore. It is a win/win. GW are you listening? ;)

[phandaal]

GW already does have scaled-up Terminators. They're just limited to the Space Marines Heroes line for some reason.

[Orange Knight]

GW already does have scaled-up Terminators. They're just limited to the Space Marines Heroes line for some reason.

I think people are asking for an actual Primaris update, and not simply better scaled Firstborn.

 

I might be alone in this, but I would prefer a Primaris Centurion unit, both better proportioned and designed than the original ones.

[Helias_Tancred]

GW already does have scaled-up Terminators. They're just limited to the Space Marines Heroes line for some reason.

 

That doesn't count imo. They need to be part of the standard space marine line and come in a 5 man squad box, and be labeled "Primaris Terminators".

[Dark Shepherd]

Sword Brethren datasheet is limited to the sprue is monobuild

Now that is a bad precedent or chapter specific kits both in terms of sprues and datasheet options

[Guest Triszin]

I Do suspect every supplement will get:

 

A. Chapter specific unit

B. Big Chapter Specific upgrade kit. ( which comes with items to represent various relics, and 1 vehicle optional )

 

And I suspect we will start seeing these next year

[Orange Knight]

Sword Brethren datasheet is limited to the sprue is monobuild

Now that is a bad precedent or chapter specific kits both in terms of sprues and datasheet options

After having seen the options as written in the codex, it's not as bad as suggested.

 

All can have a power sword, it's the more exotic weapons that are limited.

 

The unit is still very effective, and I wish a Veteran unit like it was available for all Astartes.

[Robbienw]

GW already does have scaled-up Terminators. They're just limited to the Space Marines Heroes line for some reason.

Not just them, terminators have always been scaled a bit differently to power armour. Deathwing and BA assault terminators are the similar scale as the heroes terminators, as are the recent chaos terminators. I think Cataphractii are as well.

 

If hey did do Primaris terminators, they should try and come up with something a bit different I think. Just redoing normal Indomitus terminators but with knee rims and flexi waist armour, and the biscuit tin circular reactor on the back isn’t going to cut it.

Edited October 9, 2021 by Robbienw