INKS Posted October 7, 2021 Share Posted October 7, 2021 Recently I seen a list running 6 assassins. And I am in love. I've never had an army that could use assassins before and now I want as many as I can take. What is the best way to use assassins. Are some of them just not worth it? Culexus Assassin questions: Life Drain: When resolving an attack made with a melee weapon by this model, a saving throw cannot be made unless it is an invulnerable saving throw Q: It doesn't have a melee weapon listed? PARIAH’S GAZE Culexus Stratagem Use this Stratagem in your Shooting phase, when you select a CULEXUS ASSASSIN model to shoot with. Until the end of that phase, change the Damage characteristic of that model’s animus speculum to D3. Q: The Animus Speculum already does D3 damage and D6 to Psykers. Why would you ever use this? I am confused. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371922-assassins/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
INKS Posted October 7, 2021 Author Share Posted October 7, 2021 I'll add to this as well. Q: Can you take Inquisitors with Assassins? Q: How many Inquisitors can you take with the maximum amount of assassins? What kind of detachment is that? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371922-assassins/#findComment-5750503 Share on other sites More sharing options...
INKS Posted October 7, 2021 Author Share Posted October 7, 2021 I don't know that I am doing this correctly. I kinda just chose whatever for Inquisitors. I need to study them more closely. How bad is this list? I didn't really think about it but I don't know what has obsec if anything. ++ Vanguard Detachment -3CP (Imperium - Inquisition) [10 PL, 9CP, 155pts] ++ + Configuration + Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points) Detachment Command Cost [-3CP] Gametype: Matched + HQ + Lord Inquisitor Kyria Draxus [5 PL, 85pts]: 6) Castigation + Elites + Daemonhost [2 PL, 25pts] Daemonhost [2 PL, 25pts] Jokaero Weaponsmith [1 PL, 20pts]: Ordo Xenos ++ Vanguard Detachment -3CP (Imperium - Officio Assassinorum) [15 PL, -3CP, 300pts] ++ + Configuration + Detachment Command Cost [-3CP] + Elites + Callidus Assassin [5 PL, 100pts] Culexus Assassin [5 PL, 100pts] Eversor Assassin [5 PL, 100pts] ++ Vanguard Detachment -3CP (Imperium - Officio Assassinorum) [15 PL, -3CP, 300pts] ++ + Configuration + Detachment Command Cost [-3CP] + Elites + Callidus Assassin [5 PL, 100pts] Eversor Assassin [5 PL, 100pts] Vindicare Assassin [5 PL, 100pts] ++ Vanguard Detachment -3CP (Imperium - Officio Assassinorum) [15 PL, -3CP, 300pts] ++ + Configuration + Detachment Command Cost [-3CP] + Elites + Callidus Assassin [5 PL, 100pts] Culexus Assassin [5 PL, 100pts] Vindicare Assassin [5 PL, 100pts] ++ Vanguard Detachment -3CP (Imperium - Inquisition) [14 PL, -3CP, 260pts] ++ + Configuration + Detachment Command Cost [-3CP] + HQ + Inquisitor Eisenhorn [5 PL, 110pts]: 6) Castigation, Malus Codicium Daemonhost + Elites + Acolytes [5 PL, 100pts]: Ordo Xenos . Acolyte: Bolt pistol, Plasma gun . Acolyte: Bolt pistol, Plasma gun . Acolyte: Bolt pistol, Plasma gun . Acolyte: Bolt pistol, Plasma gun . Acolyte: Bolt pistol, Plasma gun Daemonhost [2 PL, 25pts] Daemonhost [2 PL, 25pts] ++ Spearhead Detachment -3CP (Imperium - Astra Militarum) [38 PL, -4CP, 685pts] ++ + Configuration + Detachment Command Cost [-3CP] Regimental Doctrine: Spotter Details + Stratagems + Tank Ace [-1CP] + HQ + Tank Commander [12 PL, 235pts]: Heavy Bolter, Turret-mounted Demolisher Siege Cannon, Warlord . 2 Plasma Cannons + Heavy Support + Leman Russ Battle Tanks [10 PL, 160pts] . Leman Russ Battle Tank: Battle Cannon, Heavy Bolter Manticore [8 PL, 145pts]: Full Payload, Heavy Flamer Manticore [8 PL, 145pts]: Full Payload, Heavy Flamer ++ Total: [107 PL, -7CP, 2,000pts] ++ Created with BattleScribe Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371922-assassins/#findComment-5750510 Share on other sites More sharing options...
librisrouge Posted October 7, 2021 Share Posted October 7, 2021 Culexus Assassin questions: Life Drain: When resolving an attack made with a melee weapon by this model, a saving throw cannot be made unless it is an invulnerable saving throw Q: It doesn't have a melee weapon listed? All models are assumed to be armed with a Close Combat Weapon (Type: Melee S: User AP: - D:1). This means that the assassin is limited to basic attacks but does ignore armor, as it sucks your soul screaming out of your body (which you're contractually obligated to picture in the most metal way you can.) PARIAH’S GAZE Culexus Stratagem Use this Stratagem in your Shooting phase, when you select a CULEXUS ASSASSIN model to shoot with. Until the end of that phase, change the Damage characteristic of that model’s animus speculum to D3. Q: The Animus Speculum already does D3 damage and D6 to Psykers. Why would you ever use this? I am confused. The Animus Speculum only does D3 ATTACKS, not damage. It does 1 damage. The psyker bonus is to the number of attacks as well. I'll add to this as well. Q: Can you take Inquisitors with Assassins? I would say yes. How you do it, however, is more muddy. You can only have one inquisitor per detachment and the Agents of the Imperium rule lets you add one agent to an Imperium detachment. This means that Inquisitors are either added to an Imperium detachment or are the only HQ in their own Inquisition detachment. Technically, you can add the inquisitor to an assassin detachment as an HQ. Q: How many Inquisitors can you take with the maximum amount of assassins? What kind of detachment is that? One inquisitor per detachment is typically going to be your limit. Since they can join any Imperium detachment, I recommend taking a Vanguard detachment for the assassins and just having the inquisitor join up there. Hope that helps. Glad to see another Master of Assassins join the forum. Please keep us updated on how your assassins work out. INKS and XeonDragon 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371922-assassins/#findComment-5750517 Share on other sites More sharing options...
librisrouge Posted October 7, 2021 Share Posted October 7, 2021 Ok, wow, I just looked at that list. I think it is legal but it is harshly suboptimal. You have no CP, for one thing. Here is what I'd do. Merge two vanguards of assassins together into one Put the inquisitor into the above detachment Resin yourself to only 7 assassins and put the 7th that couldn't fit in the merged vanguard as an Agent in the IG detachment Ditch all non-inquisitor Inquisition stuff. They're aweful, even if it does pain me to say that. Count your IG as you acolytes. Spend all remaining points on the IG detachment. Model them as your inquisitors personal army. Have fun with friends. INKS and XeonDragon 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371922-assassins/#findComment-5750518 Share on other sites More sharing options...
INKS Posted October 7, 2021 Author Share Posted October 7, 2021 thanks for the advice. I'll play around on battle scribe to see what I can come up with. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371922-assassins/#findComment-5750519 Share on other sites More sharing options...
INKS Posted October 7, 2021 Author Share Posted October 7, 2021 New List: This gives me 9 assassins. should be able to deep strike 1 scions unit with meltas. 2 indirect fire, 1 tank commander, 1 other HQ because I had to. 2 scions teams in Taurox's to move up and contest and take objectives. The assassins can also use that ability to get behind enemy lines. I plan to hit their own deployment zones hard. ++ Vanguard Detachment -3CP (Imperium - Officio Assassinorum) [20 PL, -3CP, 400pts] ++ + Configuration + Detachment Command Cost [-3CP] + Elites + Callidus Assassin [5 PL, 100pts] Culexus Assassin [5 PL, 100pts] Eversor Assassin [5 PL, 100pts] Vindicare Assassin [5 PL, 100pts] ++ Vanguard Detachment -3CP (Imperium - Officio Assassinorum) [20 PL, -3CP, 400pts] ++ + Configuration + Detachment Command Cost [-3CP] + Elites + Callidus Assassin [5 PL, 100pts] Culexus Assassin [5 PL, 100pts] Eversor Assassin [5 PL, 100pts] Vindicare Assassin [5 PL, 100pts] ++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Imperium - Astra Militarum) [64 PL, 11CP, 1,200pts] ++ + Configuration + Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points) Detachment Command Cost Regimental Doctrine: Jury-rigged Repairs, Monster Hunters + Stratagems + Tank Ace [-1CP] + Agents of the Imperium + Callidus Assassin [5 PL, 100pts] + HQ + Company Commander [2 PL, 35pts]: Chainsword, Laspistol Tank Commander [12 PL, 195pts]: Battle Cannon, Heavy Bolter, Warlord + Troops + Militarum Tempestus Scions [Legends] [5 PL, 110pts] . 7x Scion: 7x Frag & Krak grenades, 7x Hot-shot Lasgun . Scion w/ Special Weapon: Meltagun . Scion w/ Special Weapon: Meltagun . Tempestor: Plasma pistol, Power maul Militarum Tempestus Scions [Legends] [5 PL, 110pts] . 7x Scion: 7x Frag & Krak grenades, 7x Hot-shot Lasgun . Scion w/ Special Weapon: Plasma gun . Scion w/ Special Weapon: Plasma gun . Tempestor: Plasma pistol, Power maul Militarum Tempestus Scions [Legends] [5 PL, 110pts] . 7x Scion: 7x Frag & Krak grenades, 7x Hot-shot Lasgun . Scion w/ Special Weapon: Plasma gun . Scion w/ Special Weapon: Plasma gun . Tempestor: Plasma pistol, Power maul + Heavy Support + Manticore [8 PL, 150pts]: Full Payload, Heavy Flamer, Hunter-Killer Missile Manticore [8 PL, 150pts]: Full Payload, Heavy Flamer, Hunter-Killer Missile + Dedicated Transport + Taurox Prime [7 PL, 120pts]: Taurox Gatling Cannon, Two Hot-shot Volley Guns Taurox Prime [7 PL, 120pts]: Taurox Gatling Cannon, Two Hot-shot Volley Guns ++ Total: [104 PL, 5CP, 2,000pts] ++ Created with BattleScribe Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371922-assassins/#findComment-5750525 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted October 7, 2021 Share Posted October 7, 2021 I'm not much of one for list reviews, but if you're running a Stormie list you may as well run a pure one for the regimental bonuses. The Manticores will probably be exposed in such a list, and loading up on Stormies will help with numbers for your Assassins too. Plus you can cause lots of mischief by gravchuting them in number :P Keep us updated - pictures especially! :tu: INKS 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371922-assassins/#findComment-5750551 Share on other sites More sharing options...
INKS Posted October 7, 2021 Author Share Posted October 7, 2021 I considered that. Indirect fire is so powerful, I'll have to do some play testing maybe. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371922-assassins/#findComment-5750552 Share on other sites More sharing options...
sairence Posted October 7, 2021 Share Posted October 7, 2021 Note, the Scion units will not get any benefits from the regiment traits. They will count as base-line Scions. Manticores are solid units, but not miracle workers. I usually operate them on the assumption of getting 1-3 wounds through after saves when shooting them, so 3-9 damage on average. Sometimes more, sometimes less. If you want to run this I would very much talk to your opponent beforehand and play it with a narrative mindset. Otherwise I would imagine neither of you will have too much fun. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371922-assassins/#findComment-5750581 Share on other sites More sharing options...
INKS Posted October 7, 2021 Author Share Posted October 7, 2021 It's meant to be a competitive list. I won't be top tier of course. I understand that the scions don't have any special regiment traits. Might be better just to take mass guard and maybe just 1 unit of scions to deepstrike. Indirect fire is just so good. I realize they aren't miracle workers but they can sit in the back and fire for as long as I can keep them safe. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371922-assassins/#findComment-5750585 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted October 7, 2021 Share Posted October 7, 2021 Indirect fire is good, but don't forget that dropping in a squad of Stormies is a type of indirect fire too Plus probably more effective as well as cheaper? A couple of meltas can do good work, with order and stratagem support a squad slagged a Wraithlord in one round of shooting You check check out the Stormtrooper regiments to see what might work best for you, and what you may be missing. INKS 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371922-assassins/#findComment-5750591 Share on other sites More sharing options...
INKS Posted October 7, 2021 Author Share Posted October 7, 2021 I am going to look into that. maybe some smaller squads to pop down Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371922-assassins/#findComment-5750595 Share on other sites More sharing options...
sairence Posted October 8, 2021 Share Posted October 8, 2021 Well...without wanting to be too blunt, this list is not going to be competitive. ;-) Assassins don't really have the damage output or staying power, so you have nothing to tank and stop your opponents running into your backline to tie up your Mantis. Your opponent will have a field day on kill secondaries and you'll bounce off most elite CC-unit and you lack the firepower to handle heavy armour. Don't misunderstand me, as a Guard player who is a big fan of Imperial Agents I love every single element you have in there. Assassins are fun, Scions are great and Mantis are solid. But the way you put them together denies them all the tools and synergies they need to work. Assassins work best when the opponent is already distracted, they're not frontline units. By all means, play this list and have fun with it, it's definitely unconventional. :) But don't have any expectations in terms of consistent performance, as you're only setting yourself up for disappointment. INKS 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371922-assassins/#findComment-5751038 Share on other sites More sharing options...
INKS Posted October 8, 2021 Author Share Posted October 8, 2021 I should maybe have worded it better in that I want it to be as competitive as can be with assassins. Realizing that they aren't the most competitive. My ideal situation is to get the melee assassins in the back lines and kill as much as they can before being killed. Supporting them in this way is the manticores to shoot at units they refuse to bring out or just target the tougher units. They aren't miracle workers I know but they can apply some pressure anywhere on the board. melta squad is for dropping in and helping the assassins in the back lines or hitting any armor they might have. the other units for taking objectives and or holding them as best as they can be. I am sure the list can be stream lined even better. Maybe I need 2 small melta units. There are two things I love. Tanks and Assassins. They probably don't work well together but I'll force it to work on some level. lol Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371922-assassins/#findComment-5751243 Share on other sites More sharing options...
INKS Posted October 9, 2021 Author Share Posted October 9, 2021 New List: Changing it up some. I added an Aircraft which is over costed I think but I've been seeing a lot of planes more recently. And I think it has some nice guns and missiles on it. ++ Vanguard Detachment -3CP (Imperium - Officio Assassinorum) [20 PL, -3CP, 400pts] ++ + Configuration + Detachment Command Cost [-3CP] + Elites + Callidus Assassin [5 PL, 100pts] Culexus Assassin [5 PL, 100pts] Eversor Assassin [5 PL, 100pts] Vindicare Assassin [5 PL, 100pts] ++ Vanguard Detachment -3CP (Imperium - Officio Assassinorum) [20 PL, -3CP, 400pts] ++ + Configuration + Detachment Command Cost [-3CP] + Elites + Callidus Assassin [5 PL, 100pts] Culexus Assassin [5 PL, 100pts] Eversor Assassin [5 PL, 100pts] Vindicare Assassin [5 PL, 100pts] ++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Imperium - Astra Militarum) [59 PL, 12CP, 1,200pts] ++ + Configuration + Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points) Detachment Command Cost Regimental Doctrine: 133rd Lambdan Lions + HQ + Tempestor Prime [3 PL, 50pts]: Power sword, Tempestus Command Rod, Warlord, WT (133rd Lambdan Lions): Keys to the Armoury Tempestor Prime [3 PL, 45pts]: Chainsword, Tempestus Command Rod + Troops + Militarum Tempestus Scions [Legends] [3 PL, 65pts] . 2x Scion: 2x Frag & Krak grenades, 2x Hot-shot Lasgun . Scion w/ Special Weapon: Meltagun . Scion w/ Special Weapon: Meltagun . Tempestor: Plasma pistol, Power axe Militarum Tempestus Scions [Legends] [3 PL, 65pts] . 2x Scion: 2x Frag & Krak grenades, 2x Hot-shot Lasgun . Scion w/ Special Weapon: Meltagun . Scion w/ Special Weapon: Meltagun . Tempestor: Plasma pistol, Power axe Militarum Tempestus Scions [Legends] [3 PL, 65pts] . 2x Scion: 2x Frag & Krak grenades, 2x Hot-shot Lasgun . Scion w/ Special Weapon: Plasma gun . Scion w/ Special Weapon: Plasma gun . Tempestor: Plasma pistol, Power maul Militarum Tempestus Scions [Legends] [3 PL, 65pts] . 2x Scion: 2x Frag & Krak grenades, 2x Hot-shot Lasgun . Scion w/ Special Weapon: Meltagun . Scion w/ Special Weapon: Meltagun . Tempestor: Plasma pistol, Power axe Militarum Tempestus Scions [Legends] [3 PL, 65pts] . 2x Scion: 2x Frag & Krak grenades, 2x Hot-shot Lasgun . Scion w/ Special Weapon: Plasma gun . Scion w/ Special Weapon: Plasma gun . Tempestor: Plasma pistol, Power axe + Elites + Militarum Tempestus Command Squad [3 PL, 80pts] . Tempestus Scion: Meltagun . Tempestus Scion: Meltagun . Tempestus Scion: Meltagun . Tempestus Scion: Meltagun Militarum Tempestus Command Squad [3 PL, 80pts] . Tempestus Scion: Meltagun . Tempestus Scion: Meltagun . Tempestus Scion: Meltagun . Tempestus Scion: Meltagun + Flyer + Thunderbolt [11 PL, 230pts]: Thunderbolt Hellstrike Rack + Dedicated Transport + Taurox Prime [7 PL, 130pts]: Taurox Gatling Cannon, Two Autocannons Taurox Prime [7 PL, 120pts]: Taurox Gatling Cannon, Two Hot-shot Volley Guns Taurox Prime [7 PL, 140pts]: Taurox Missile Launcher, Two Autocannons ++ Total: [99 PL, 6CP, 2,000pts] ++ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371922-assassins/#findComment-5751444 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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