Unique Units: And What Should They Do

[WrathOfTheLion]

Is there a reason Mor Deythan don't exist in contemporary 40k? I would think Raven Guard (and their successors, due to it being from geneseed) would still produce that mutation and could conceivably have a small squad of them.

[Jacques Corbin]

Is there a reason Mor Deythan don't exist in contemporary 40k? I would think Raven Guard (and their successors, due to it being from geneseed) would still produce that mutation and could conceivably have a small squad of them.

Well, geneseed degradation is canon for a lot of Chapters. However, the geneseed from Primaris was allegedly harvested 10K Terran years ago, and is considered purer, because it has not has generations of degradation to endure. So, it could be that the mutation occurs more often in Primaris, but they did not have the culture of their parent chapter while they were taken out of stasis in the depths of Cawl's vaults, then training on Mars before rejoining their parent Chapter after the Indomitus Crusade.

[Schlitzaf]

So um what are Mor Deythen?

[Bryan Blaire]

Funny you should ask about the Mor Deythan - because they actually do exist in the Era Indomitus:

 

Informally known as 'Shadow Masters', these were a small cadre of infiltration squads within the Legion already well known for their skill in such tactics. Each is a veteran of the Lycaen Uprising who fought at the side of Corax himself. When the Emperor arrived on Deliverance he judged many of the rebels who had fought alongside his son worthy of transformation into a Space Marine and helped remind Corax of his roots as a revolutionary and freedom fighter.[1]

 

At the beginning of the Horus Heresy, the Mor Deythan were few in number after eight decades of constant warfare and rarely admit new recruits into their ranks. Most who remained were grizzled veterans who were masters of moving silently through the shadows and attacking at the best opportunity. They utilized a range of specialized equipment. However rumor had it that they possessed the ability of their Primarch's ability of nigh-invisibility.[1]

 

By M42[2], the abilities of the Mor Deythan, have become incredibly rare among those Space Mariness descended from the Primarch Corax[3]. However after the Great Rift[2] left the Imperium beset by foes, the Raven Guard Chapter Master Shrike, restored the Mor Deythan in order to help topple these threats. So far, though, they only have four members in the re-established order.[3]

 

Known Mor Deythan

Aevar Qeld - M42 Raven Guard Shadow Captain [3]
Illith - M42 Raven Guard Shadow Captain[3]
Mordren - M42 Knights of the Raven Captain[3]
Artarix - M42 Raven Guard Sergeant[3]

 

Sources

1: The Horus Heresy Book Three - Extermination, pg. 276
2: Soulbound (Audio Drama)
3: The Geld (Audio Drama)

 

(Yes, this was taken from Lexicanum 40K because I don’t actually have all those books, but it’s an interesting fact for Primaris unique squads)

 

So time will tell if this actually becomes a unit in the game or remains a lore only thing - I’m clearly hoping to the former, or at least some kind of unique-to-gene-line squads happen.

[WrathOfTheLion]

Excellent find. They're a perfect example of a unit that could be added for chapters sired from Corax's gene line, as the abilities are inherited from their Primarch.

 

It would also make sense perhaps to add Mor Deythan abilities as an optional purchase upgrade for certain character types.

[Cryptshadow]

For ultramarines id like to see a squad of victrix honorguard, currently cato sicarius is the head of these elites guarding guilliman and they are one of the most iconic of the ultramarine units in the art and upgradi g the whole unit from fail cast would be awesome.

 

And also of course the tyranid veterans of the ulteamarines would be awesome to see again a very cool unit that could have a very flexible datasheet with anti xenos special ammunition or some sort of resistance. We have a bunch of art during that time from mark Gibbons thats amazing. And a tyrannid vet version of cassius would be freaking amazing

 

As shown here

https://mobile.twitter.com/viam_sapientiae/status/1114564503793012737

[Marshal Reinhard]

And suddenly I understand the popularity of the double chainsword kitbash

[phandaal]

For ultramarines id like to see a squad of victrix honorguard, currently cato sicarius is the head of these elites guarding guilliman and they are one of the most iconic of the ultramarine units in the art and upgradi g the whole unit from fail cast would be awesome.

 

And also of course the tyranid veterans of the ulteamarines would be awesome to see again a very cool unit that could have a very flexible datasheet with anti xenos special ammunition or some sort of resistance. We have a bunch of art during that time from mark Gibbons thats amazing. And a tyrannid vet version of cassius would be freaking amazing

 

As shown here

https://mobile.twitter.com/viam_sapientiae/status/1114564503793012737

 

This is not directed at you in any way - but that Tyranid stuff has no place in 40k. Ultramarines wiring a living Tyranid into their brains? Psykers with Tyranid mutations being part of a Space Marine commander's retinue?

 

Considering it is from stuff Mark Gibbons did like 20 years ago, it was probably meant as a "what if" type project, not something that would or should ever make it into the game.

 

Mark's artwork is great as always, but some stuff is just for fun.

[Dracos]

Given the Stratagems Infiltrators, Guerilla Tactics, and the Warlord Traits, Master of Ambush and Lord of Deceit, I think you could say the Raven Guard and Successors are already running the  Mor Deythan. 

 

Smoke Grenades wouldn't be a remiss addition though ;)

[Medjugorje]

I think GW should make 

 

- Sanguinary Guard

- some kind of space wolf troop choice like grey Intercessors or Blood Intercessors.

- For Dark Angels it would be nice to see an Terminator eqivalent which is not just a Primaris Terminator. A really knightly themed unit (although as a BT fan I would be SUCH envious) based on their 30k units. 

 

All other chapters used to be "standard codex complaiant chapters" which dont should not have the priority before others are done since BA, DA and SW have a far greater fanbase. Except Characters. I would like to see some favourite characters turn Primaris.

Edited October 18, 2021 by Medjugorje

[Bryan Blaire]

- Sanguinary Guard

Agreed, but it would also be nice to see another unique unit type for the BA, or give the Sanguinary Guard a new flavor or something - something like a CC Inceptor type unit.

 

- some kind of space wolf troop choice like grey Intercessors or Blood Intercessors.

The “Grey Intercessor” would only make sense if there’s actually something they can do that the Intercessors can’t that’s actually interesting - if it’s just mixing Bolt Rifle types, that isn’t enough. It would need a new weapon type or something (which could be cool, like a useful Helwinter ice blaster, or lightning cannon - note, not a lascannon) similar to how the Crusade squads got a new flamer.

 

The Blood Intercessors wouldn’t make much sense though, as we could already have those in the Assault Intercessors right now - unless there would be some more rules that reflect their less disciplined, but combative, nature.

 

All other chapters used to be "standard codex complaiant chapters" which dont should not have the priority before others are done since BA, DA and SW have a far greater fanbase. Except Characters. I would like to see some favourite characters turn Primaris.

I would think they would do something like a unique unit every couple of months, tied into a new release of a supplement or something. I think that Chapter specific units are coming for everyone, and the Templars release showed the way forward. You wouldn’t even need a new box, honestly, it could be done with upgrade sprues similar to the BT ones (although it depends on the uniqueness of the squad).

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

I think GW should make

 

- Sanguinary Guard

- some kind of space wolf troop choice like grey Intercessors or Blood Intercessors.

- For Dark Angels it would be nice to see an Terminator eqivalent which is not just a Primaris Terminator. A really knightly themed unit (although as a BT fan I would be SUCH envious) based on their 30k units.

 

All other chapters used to be "standard codex complaiant chapters" which dont should not have the priority before others are done since BA, DA and SW have a far greater fanbase. Except Characters. I would like to see some favourite characters turn Primaris.

pretty sure that aggressors are the primaris equivalent of terminators.

Maybe DA should get veteran aggressors with stats befitting veterans like BS2+ and an extra attack. Maybe access to plasma gauntlets instead of flamestorm. Like plasmastorm gauntlets.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

 

- Sanguinary Guard

Agreed, but it would also be nice to see another unique unit type for the BA, or give the Sanguinary Guard a new flavor or something - something like a CC Inceptor type unit.

 

- some kind of space wolf troop choice like grey Intercessors or Blood Intercessors.

The “Grey Intercessor” would only make sense if there’s actually something they can do that the Intercessors can’t that’s actually interesting - if it’s just mixing Bolt Rifle types, that isn’t enough. It would need a new weapon type or something (which could be cool, like a useful Helwinter ice blaster, or lightning cannon - note, not a lascannon) similar to how the Crusade squads got a new flamer.

 

The Blood Intercessors wouldn’t make much sense though, as we could already have those in the Assault Intercessors right now - unless there would be some more rules that reflect their less disciplined, but combative, nature.

 

All other chapters used to be "standard codex complaiant chapters" which dont should not have the priority before others are done since BA, DA and SW have a far greater fanbase. Except Characters. I would like to see some favourite characters turn Primaris.

I would think they would do something like a unique unit every couple of months, tied into a new release of a supplement or something. I think that Chapter specific units are coming for everyone, and the Templars release showed the way forward. You wouldn’t even need a new box, honestly, it could be done with upgrade sprues similar to the BT ones (although it depends on the uniqueness of the squad).

id love to see some blood angels with melee inceptors.

I posted about that a while back as the way to move SG into primaris, but got a lot of pushback from the community.

 

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/370007-if-we-get-primaris-sg-couldshould-they-be-gravis-armored/page-2?do=findComment&comment=5700371

Edited October 18, 2021 by Inquisitor_Lensoven

[Blindhamster]

Because inceptors are big and bulky, sanguinary guard wear ornate artificer armour. Big and bulky doesn’t seem to fit blood angels IMO. Although both in 40K and HH we see they do still favour terminators too (crimson paladins and the terminator stuff from 7th) Edited October 18, 2021 by Blindhamster

[Dracos]

Melee Inceptors …… sorry Raven Guard called dibs on anything Gravis ;)

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

Because inceptors are big and bulky, sanguinary guard wear ornate artificer armour. Big and bulky doesn’t seem to fit blood angels IMO. Although both in 40K and HH we see they do still favour terminators too (crimson paladins and the terminator stuff from 7th)

gravis armor can be made to be ornate. There’s literally no reason it couldn’t be ornate.

[Blindhamster]

No, but it’s far too bulky for the sleek look sanguinary guard have. It just doesn’t fit the aesthetic, look at sanguinius armour style, look at Dante, astorath, sanguinor, even the current sanguinary guard have sleeker design elements than regular mk7. They aren’t flying terminators and really shouldn’t be

[Guest Triszin]

I think GW should make

 

- Sanguinary Guard

- some kind of space wolf troop choice like grey Intercessors or Blood Intercessors.

- For Dark Angels it would be nice to see an Terminator eqivalent which is not just a Primaris Terminator. A really knightly themed unit (although as a BT fan I would be SUCH envious) based on their 30k units.

 

All other chapters used to be "standard codex complaiant chapters" which dont should not have the priority before others are done since BA, DA and SW have a far greater fanbase. Except Characters. I would like to see some favourite characters turn Primaris.

Grey slayers

Storm claws

Varagyr

[Cryptshadow]

I think GW should make

 

- Sanguinary Guard

- some kind of space wolf troop choice like grey Intercessors or Blood Intercessors.

- For Dark Angels it would be nice to see an Terminator eqivalent which is not just a Primaris Terminator. A really knightly themed unit (although as a BT fan I would be SUCH envious) based on their 30k units.

 

All other chapters used to be "standard codex complaiant chapters" which dont should not have the priority before others are done since BA, DA and SW have a far greater fanbase. Except Characters. I would like to see some favourite characters turn Primaris.

Disagree on some chapters being lower prority just because they are somehow "standard codex compliant" especially since all chapters were codex compliant, yes even black templars until they werent, all chapters that used to be legions had unique cultures and units that show that. Being "standard codex compliant" wouldnt change that and are as vaible as any of the three u said to get a unique unit Edited October 19, 2021 by Cryptshadow

[Captain Idaho]

There's no need for unique units to be Primaris exclusively but GW won't feasibly release anything else.

 

I still vote for FW doing HH units for 40K. :)

[Jorin Helm-splitter]

I don't think space wolves should get a unique primaris troop. It just doesn't make sense, the squad loadouts already mirror the old ways close enough that it doesn't feel like we're missing something.  I think squads similar to the sword brethren kit make the most sense, (and then you could remove the veteran intercessor datasheet once all the chapters were updated) with unique rules that fit each chapter. IMO just providing the chapter specific bits is a win (and maybe update the intercessor options as new weapons appear).  

 

I also think looking at something similar to what they did with the Hounds of Morakai would make sense for a lot chapters as a way to add flavor and get some under preforming kits back on the table. Maybe letting Raven Guard have elite snipers using the Eliminator kit, that can pick which models are removed from a squad they targeted. Captain Idaho is right in that it wouldn't just have to be primaris getting new rules as well, so maybe a special imperial fist centurion unit? 

Edited October 19, 2021 by Jorin Helm-splitter

[Cryptshadow]

I don't think space wolves should get a unique primaris troop. It just doesn't make sense, the squad loadouts already mirror the old ways close enough that it doesn't feel like we're missing something. I think squads similar to the sword brethren kit make the most sense, (and then you could remove the veteran intercessor datasheet once all the chapters were updated) with unique rules that fit each chapter. IMO just providing the chapter specific bits is a win (and maybe update the intercessor options as new weapons appear).

 

I also think looking at something similar to what they did with the Hounds of Morakai would make sense for a lot chapters as a way to add flavor and get some under preforming kits back on the table. Maybe letting Raven Guard have elite snipers using the Eliminator kit, that can pick which models are removed from a squad they targeted. Captain Idaho is right in that it wouldn't just have to be primaris getting new rules as well, so maybe a special imperial fist centurion unit?

Eh hounds of morekai were some lazy rules with basically lazier reboxing of reviers with a bland sw primaris kit. No thank you

 

And primaris are the new default marines that gw are making its just a copyrightable term, gw doesnt seem to be the type thats gonna make new stuff for old models.

Edited October 20, 2021 by Cryptshadow

[Jorin Helm-splitter]

 

I don't think space wolves should get a unique primaris troop. It just doesn't make sense, the squad loadouts already mirror the old ways close enough that it doesn't feel like we're missing something. I think squads similar to the sword brethren kit make the most sense, (and then you could remove the veteran intercessor datasheet once all the chapters were updated) with unique rules that fit each chapter. IMO just providing the chapter specific bits is a win (and maybe update the intercessor options as new weapons appear).

 

I also think looking at something similar to what they did with the Hounds of Morakai would make sense for a lot chapters as a way to add flavor and get some under preforming kits back on the table. Maybe letting Raven Guard have elite snipers using the Eliminator kit, that can pick which models are removed from a squad they targeted. Captain Idaho is right in that it wouldn't just have to be primaris getting new rules as well, so maybe a special imperial fist centurion unit?

Eh hounds of morekai were some lazy rules with basically lazier reboxing of reviers with a bland sw primaris kit. No thank you

 

And primaris are the new default marines that gw are making its just a copyrightable term, gw doesnt seem to be the type thats gonna make new stuff for old models.

 

 

Yeah I agree that hounds were pretty lazy I still expect them to do it, and I think they can do a better job if the new squad isn't using probably the worst infantry squad in the codex as its base.

 

On your second point I somewhat I agree. I don't think GW gets the credit they should for keeping the firstborn units relevant. I mean jump pack characters, attack bikes, vanguard vets, and devs in pods are all competitive choices. You can make a pretty solid argument for them being the best choices in their respective slots. So I don't think they have any desire to get rid of them, and to be blunt there wasn't anything new for Hounds from a wargear perspective. 

[TheNewman]

See, I respectfully disagree with that last part. Head canon is what keeps a lot of us motivated. I come here to get away from the real world. I also want to keep politics and pandemic bull-:cuss out of hobbying and games.

 

Here is more head canon. A big problem for Heretic Astartes? Logistics. Bolter rounds are not easy to manufacture, and which Chapters make their own? Seriously, maybe the Ultramarines, and we all know the Imperial Fists have a practically unlimited supply due to their roles as Defenders of Terra. Now, imagine heretic warbands, who have to raid and steal to get most of their supplies.

 

And here come the Primaris with their Bolt Rifles. A Bolt Rifle is not only much bigger than a Bolter, but it's ordnance (remember, bolt shells are not bullets, they are rocket propelled grenades) fires further and punches through armor better. Bolt Rifle ordnance CANNOT be fired from Bolters or even Heavy Bolters. This drastically reduces the Heretic's ability to resupply through raiding or looting corpses. Also factor into the repair of power armor, the obstacles to incorporating pieces of Primaris armor into older grades of power armor are astronomical. So, now heretic Astartes either start to target Chapters with all or mostly Firstborn Astartes, or rely more heavily on the so-called Dark Mechanicus for supplies. The solution to that? Continue to phase out Firstborn, and heavily target Dark Mechanicus and wipe them out. As a result of those 2 things being successful, heretic warbands will have to fight each other for increasingly limited resources.

 

Now, back on topic. How about this for White Scars? Instead of putting each and every character on a bike, make an elite biker with a chariot-style sidecar on his Outrider. One non-gravis character can embark onto the sidecar. The bike has Storm Shield tech in the sidecar, bestowing a 4++, and the biker acts as a bodyguard for any embarked character, with a 5+ FNP for mortal wounds. The character embarked still counts as on the table, gains biker keyword with +1W and +1T, can shoot and fight out of the sidecar, as well as use command phase abilities and affect units with their auras. I say White Scars mostly because they released Korsarro Khan on foot to sell Impulsors, when he is almost always on a bike in the lore. But imagine being able to put a Primaris Techmarine in that sidecar, and now he can keep up with Gladiators, Impulsors, Repulsors, and Storm Speeders. Imagine the boost in durabilty to a Repulsor, Impulsor, or Gladiator Valiant or Reaper, if a Techmarine could keep up with the tank. Your opponent hast to blow it up his first turn, or it gets repaired and you target his anti tank units. So, your Dreadnoughts are not being targeted, and neither are your your other vehicles.

 

This is another unit that I could see as if you take a Captain or Chapter Master, you can take one without using an elite slot. Think about a basic Primaris Captain, MC Power Sword and the Bellicose Rifle embarked on that sidecar, not to mention how a Bladeguard Captain would be.

I kind of like the economy of the idea, but an ATV makes more sense and it would be awful to have such a thing explode when your valuable character would be the only passenger.