Beat-stick sorcerer

[Paladin777]

Has anyone else tried to make a real monster out of a sorcerer yet because I figure we can make a pretty good one. You could make a simple one with a khopesh, paradigm of change, and Swelled by the warp for 7, Str7 -3AP 2D attacks. Alternatively, using the Stave Abominus would make for 14x S9 -1AP attacks that can be combined with the Cult of Mutation warlord trait for extra mortal wounds.

 

A more complicated, though also very powerful version would be a Cult of Mutation Terminator sorcerer with Battle Psyker (+1 attack and 2+ WS) the cult of mutation relic (+1 S, T, A), and swelled by the warp for a total of 7 attacks at S8, -3AP, 2D and he'd have a respectable T5 while we're at it!

 

So while I know it's not really our thing, we can certainly make a decent combat monster to help bail out our rubric marines at a points cost a fair bit lower than the DP if we're on a budget.

 

Edited for accuracy

Edited October 10, 2021 by Paladin777

[jgascoine011]

Not too sure where you are getting the d3 damage from, or the extra attack from charging.

 

The best beatstick character i can find is really the exaulted with seers bane, but even then its kind of medicore.

[Paladin777]

Not too sure where you are getting the d3 damage from, or the extra attack from charging.

Umm, accidental holdover from 8th, my bad, and I forgot that the staff drops the damage to 1. I edited my original post. I still think it would be fun to try.

[Montoya]

I've toyed with this idea before.  But I generally fall on the side that it isn't what we do best, so better to focus points elsewhere.

[dice4thedicegod]

My (sole, small) game so far was using cult of mutation.

 

I had two hq’s:

 

Exalted sorcerer with warlord trait that sixes to-hit do mortals, paradigm of change for extra wound and attack, staff abominus for double attacks (albeit at d1)

 

Terminator sorcerer with exalted mutation relic and undying form and a khopesh. (So strength, toughness, wounds were 5 and attacks of 6, either using staff or khopesh)(and WS 2+).

 

They worked well… but the poor necrons were just overwhelmed in any case.

 

My thinking is that time or duplicity is probably better but… I like having a melee counter charge available. And my armies typically have some/all melee… so it fits my comfort zone.

Edited October 12, 2021 by dice4thedicegod

[Paladin777]

I take it you gave the terminator sorcerer battle psyker?

 

Did you take swelled by the warp for either one?

Edited October 12, 2021 by Paladin777

[dice4thedicegod]

I take it you gave the terminator sorcerer battle psyker?

 

Did you take swelled by the warp for either one?

Yes- definitely battle-psyker!

 

Actually, I had a twist of fate on the terminator sorcerer but went without swelled by the warp. I figured I wanted glamour on the exalted (and then they both knew a mw spell)

[GreenPlasma]

I did quite some thinking about this. Beguiling Influence + Plate + Chatterfowl + Glamour would let an Exalted Sorcerer tank almost any single model in the game more or less indefinitely. If you can base the opponents’s model, with a single Rubric nearby for Implacable Guardians (but outside engagement range), they would lose their shooting phase entirely. You can theoretically grind down Redemptor Dreads this way, by bonking them with the D3+1 damage staff and Warp Swell.

 

That’s more of a fun build to maximize hilarity from rules jank. Which I love. But competitively speaking, smart play is to maximize utility that’s less niche. Which means running the powers and traits within Duplicity, Time, and Magic, and prioritizing relics like the Crystal, Prism, Scrolls, Orrery. Not to mention — MWs are devastating at close range. Punchiness in CC is essentially redundant. So it’s tough going for the lonely but courageous combat HQ.

[Lucky_Lee]

I've been enjoying a Terminator Sorcerer with; battle psyker, exalted mutation, aetherstride, temporal surge, swelled by the warp, force axe, and kopesh.

This creates a 16" moving sorcerer, that counts as flying, 2+/5++ and has 2+ WS, STR 8/10 with AP -3/-2 and damage 2/d3. He gets 7 attacks once buffed.

Very versatile with the ability to deep strike as well as the movement to just leap over squads and murder characters. For added kick you can pop unholy susurrus to swap smite/warp reality for twist of fate and just cabal ritual to auto cast it if your target is packing a good invulnerable save.

Supporting elite slot characters die to this guy ezpz. I usually take Ahriman, an exalted sorcerer, and a DP so this guy doesn't take any force org in a battalion.

If you guys dig it try it out!

Edited October 19, 2021 by Xenoscry

[Paladin777]

Fair enough! I really need to swap out my termie sorcerer's staff for an axe... it's just so much better against almost all targets! Edited October 19, 2021 by Paladin777

[GreenPlasma]

I have seen the Aetherstride + Thrydd + Paradigm of Change build appear in a few tourney lists. It’s definitely got mobility you can’t equal with any other character in the codex.

[Lucky_Lee]

I have seen the Aetherstride + Thrydd + Paradigm of Change build appear in a few tourney lists. It’s definitely got mobility you can’t equal with any other character in the codex.

My only real concern with this the use of the relic disc.

If you're getting charged then your opponent will be sending someone who can kill him outright.

If you're charging then you plan to win your combat.

 

In 9th edition multi-turn combats are something of a rarity so I just don't really see this being worth the relic slot.  Especially when you could just double up on warlord traits or take conniving plate which is much better on a DP with temporal manipulation, swelled by the warp and undying form.

[Mushkilla]

 

I have seen the Aetherstride + Thrydd + Paradigm of Change build appear in a few tourney lists. It’s definitely got mobility you can’t equal with any other character in the codex.

My only real concern with this the use of the relic disc.

If you're getting charged then your opponent will be sending someone who can kill him outright.

If you're charging then you plan to win your combat.

 

In 9th edition multi-turn combats are something of a rarity so I just don't really see this being worth the relic slot.  Especially when you could just double up on warlord traits or take conniving plate which is much better on a DP with temporal manipulation, swelled by the warp and undying form.

 

 

Exalted with the relic disk isn't a full on smash sorcerer. They are more a utility piece. With 15" movement you can pull off some crazy moves. What the relic disk gives you is fallback+cast, advance+charge, and consolidate in any direction. This can be used to do some crazy things. I've had my Thrydd sorcerer move ridiculous distances. 15+d6+15+2d6+3+6 is a lot of movement. Great assassin for killing 1-2 key targets and dying, great at playing the mission, great mobile MW platform, great end game sweeper hunting backfield scoring units etc. So many uses.

Edited October 20, 2021 by Mushkilla

[Emicus]

Multiply before adding is the rule now, just a reminder :)

 

 

Base strength x weapon + magic

[Paladin777]

Agreed, but none of the calculations involving strength use multiplications.

 

However, with the way the Stave Abominus is worded it really does seem like all attacks are multiplied.

 

"Each time an attack is made with this weapon, make 2 hit rolls instead of 1."

 

All attacks that a sorcerer will make are going to be with the weapon.

 

Unless this has been FAQ'd already...

Edited October 24, 2021 by Paladin777

[Xenith]

Agreed, but none of the calculations involving strength use multiplications.

 

 

Is is Skaeloch's talon that's Sx2 for 2D3 damage, however at AP0?

 

Such a wasted opportunity. Bonus S and D don't matter if you can't get through armour. 

[Paladin777]

Such a wasted opportunity. Bonus S and D don't matter if you can't get through armour.

That's not true actually.

 

I ran the numbers against quite a few T/Sv combinations including terminators and land raiders) and the talon comes out substantially on top as compared to a normal force stave in most scenarios.

 

I'm at lunch right now, but maybe I'll run and record the numbers later comparing a regular force stave, khopesh, the talon, and the stave abominus.

 

Edit: I keep running more numbers and if the target is T5+ with 3+ wounds the Talon seems to be the heavy favorite regardless of the target's saving throw, even when compared to the Khopesh.

 

This does not take additional buffs into account like Swelled by the Warp.

Edited October 26, 2021 by Paladin777

[Xenith]

 

Such a wasted opportunity. Bonus S and D don't matter if you can't get through armour.

That's not true actually.

 

I ran the numbers against quite a few T/Sv combinations including terminators and land raiders) and the talon comes out substantially on top as compared to a normal force stave in most scenarios.

 

I'm at lunch right now, but maybe I'll run and record the numbers later comparing a regular force stave, khopesh, the talon, and the stave abominus.

 

Edit: I keep running more numbers and if the target is T5+ with 3+ wounds the Talon seems to be the heavy favorite regardless of the target's saving throw, even when compared to the Khopesh.

 

 

I would absolutely love to see the results of those stats, if you're doing them? Might be worth a new topic we can add to the TS resources - optimum staff/relic choices?

 

Personally I'd written off the talon, but would be extremely happy to be wrong on this one. 

[Paladin777]

I'll should have some time this Saturday. I'll try to get to it then.