Primaris Crusader Squads

[Tokugawa]

If you want to buy and field a 20 men crusader squad, you'd better try some pressure test first. Find a game with a friend player with mutiple blast weapons, and test whether they could survive.

[Tokugawa]

 

 

 

 

 

If the pyreblaster is still dmg2 then it worth a try. Dmg1? 10pts??! no, thanks.

It's d1. Fists all the way, though i'll probably stick on all my pyreblasters on some older intercessor models

 

It was shown that originally they used to have 2dmg in earlier versions. I think so too. It sucks - 20 man crusadersquad would have had options for 4 pyreblaster with damage2. I think they were kinda worried about how strong the Drukhari "dark technomancer" performance pre FAQ.

 

They forgotten that we would not have the ability for +1 to wound in addition to what DT had. Thats the only explanation because the Pyreblaster seems like really bad to me.

 

 

2 fists in 10 man squad or 4 in a 20 man squad is phenomenal. thats 6 attacks if you charge or getting charged (at least).  In best cast you can the vow per litany AAC on it, fire of devotion and use the honor vehemet from SM codex - you would have  20 powerfist attacks^^

 

 

Comparing with flamer weapon in new books: Sisters flamer is 5pts but S5. Ork basic burna is ~2pts. 10pts can't be the originally intended cost of a S4 DMG1 flamer. 100% GW changed their idea at some very late timepoint.

[BitsHammer]

 

 

 

If the pyreblaster is still dmg2 then it worth a try. Dmg1? 10pts??! no, thanks.

It's d1. Fists all the way, though i'll probably stick on all my pyreblasters on some older intercessor models

 

It was shown that originally they used to have 2dmg in earlier versions. I think so too. It sucks - 20 man crusadersquad would have had options for 4 pyreblaster with damage2. I think they were kinda worried about how strong the Drukhari "dark technomancer" performance pre FAQ.

 

They forgotten that we would not have the ability for +1 to wound in addition to what DT had. Thats the only explanation because the Pyreblaster seems like really bad to me.

 

 

2 fists in 10 man squad or 4 in a 20 man squad is phenomenal. thats 6 attacks if you charge or getting charged (at least).  In best cast you can the vow per litany AAC on it, fire of devotion and use the honor vehemet from SM codex - you would have  20 powerfist attacks^^

 

 

Comparing with flamer weapon in new books: Sisters flamer is 5pts but S5. Ork basic burna is ~2pts. 10pts can't be the originally intended cost of a S4 DMG1 flamer. 100% GW changed their idea at some very late timepoint.

 

Agreed. That or the person writing the book went conservative on points costs. Who knows, maybe we're future proofed for the next Chapter Approved?

[Urkh]

It's so they can give the same weapon to salamanders for cheaper when their book comes out maybe? I am a big fan of the power fists over flamers. The flamers just kill more of what our swords and bolters kill. I dont think those four flamer guys are going to kill a monster or a tank like four fists would. If we have AAC as a vow (or even an extra through litanies), having fists can make it so we don't get tarpitted by a tank we wouldn't be able to kill woth flamers, since we wouldn't be able to fall back woth the crusader squad.

[Medjugorje]

of course - I think the Fists are the strongest part in a Primaris crusadersquad. From output it feels like Obsec Terminators.

[Sword Brethren Durion]

Sooo is it worth to play a crusader squad of ten ? Or even two ? Or it's definitly too expansive ?

[Medjugorje]

I am not sure yet but I think they are worth it.

[Marshal Mittens]

I think I will probably do 1 big squad with 4 fists, PS, and the rest with guns. Move towards something my enemy wants to hold, and hopefully draw a lot of fire. 45 S4 AP1 shots is nothing to sneeze at, shooting wise, either. 5++/5+++ is going to make them durable if I give them Chaplin support as well.

 

I play friendly games, so I am more interested in a fun fluffy unit that looks cool and preforms ok than the best possible combination anyway. Might use Skitarii Vanguard helms with the cogs shaved off for the Neophyte helms.

Edited October 16, 2021 by Marshall Mittens

[Charlo]

Autos and Fists certainly feel like the way to go. Even just for a numbers perspective, three shots is better than one extra attack in CC and a pip of AP from turn 3 onwards.

 

Leave the true CC to the Sword Brethren/ Bladeguard etc

Edited October 16, 2021 by Charlo

[ChargingSoll]

How's people feeling from building the Crusader's, took me ages to put them together but they do look great. The sheathed chainsword might be my favorite pose.

[9x19 Parabellum]

Autobolt Rifles (doctrine buff notwithstanding)

3 Str 4 attacks at 24" - advance and shoot

3 Str 4 attacks in melee

 

Heavy Bolt Pistol and Chainsword (doctrine buff notwithstanding)

1 Str 4, -1 AP attack at 18" - shoot in combat

4 Str 4, -1 AP attacks in melee

 

To each his/her own, but I value 5 attacks with AP-1 vs. the 6 attacks without.

Plus, I think our army buffs intersect better with melee.

I like Autobolt Rifles, I have a unit of 10 intercessors armed that way, which I think is the best way to go if you want to use them, and maximize the value of the Rapid Fire strat on turn 2. 

Plus... I mean, c'mon....BT?  CHAINSWORDS.

[tvih]

4 melee attacks with AP -1 is all well and good... if/once you get to actually make 'em. In the meanwhile you can usually be shooting enemies with a 24" range weapon from the first turn already, unless the board is filled with obscuring terrain and you're going first with the enemy entirely hidden. Plus of course there's backfield squads, though I suppose for those you'd want to use a smaller squad than the minimum 10-man Primaris Crusaders.

[redmapa]

I like the idea of making 10 man Crusader squads into TAC squads with the Initiates with Autobolters and the Neophytes with Chainswords, so they have some melee and some shooting so they are never truly useless. I dont think a 10 man squad geared only for combat is a good idea, we have plenty of infantry units with real close combat power so the only reason I would make a Crusader into a full melee brick is a max unit of 20. They make the most out of their buffs, they get 4 Power Fists and a Power sword and can be quite durable. 

[Brother Kraskor]

I like the idea of making 10 man Crusader squads into TAC squads with the Initiates with Autobolters and the Neophytes with Chainswords, so they have some melee and some shooting so they are never truly useless. I dont think a 10 man squad geared only for combat is a good idea, we have plenty of infantry units with real close combat power so the only reason I would make a Crusader into a full melee brick is a max unit of 20. They make the most out of their buffs, they get 4 Power Fists and a Power sword and can be quite durable. 

 

The brick of 20 fully combat-oriented start to look nasty when you throw down Fires of Devotion and get them the Suffer Not vow (whether armywide or via Fervent Acclamation). 

[Medjugorje]

I think there are more ways to play them. 

10 man squads and/or a single 20 man squad which is supported by 5+++ so we dont have to take other board controle units. Its always good to have such a unit in the troop slot.

[BitsHammer]

It's quite likely that much like Tactical Marines there is no one correct way to build a Primaris Crusader squad.

[Tokugawa]

Since the popular "elite" melee options(BGV,Vanguard, Termie) have 0 shooting, if you go also full melee on "basic" units, you may not have sufficient small arms to clear screen.

[Waaagh?]

Anyone still planning on taking 5 man intercessor squads alongside their Crusaders? Thinking of some for backfield babysitting.

[Marshal Loss]

Anyone still planning on taking 5 man intercessor squads alongside their Crusaders? Thinking of some for backfield babysitting.

I definitely am - Crusaders are simply too expensive to be a backfield objective unit. Other units with smaller minimum sizes do that job better.

[Palmu]

Anyone still planning on taking 5 man intercessor squads alongside their Crusaders? Thinking of some for backfield babysitting.

Assault Intercessors, but yes. Gotta have those tiny objective-holding units available, and I've always felt it's better to have assault-ready dudes hiding behind a wall rather than shooty ones. 

[BitsHammer]

 

Anyone still planning on taking 5 man intercessor squads alongside their Crusaders? Thinking of some for backfield babysitting.

Assault Intercessors, but yes. Gotta have those tiny objective-holding units available, and I've always felt it's better to have assault-ready dudes hiding behind a wall rather than shooty ones. 

 

Yeah, if they're going to be hiding where they can't shoot anyways, then yeah, that sounds like a good pick.

[tvih]

I might have to do with Assault ones too, unless I take loaner models from my CF, or just use oldmarines... I don't have shooty Intercessors for BT. Problem is, in many of the matched play missions objectives seem to be basically out in the open where you can't really just hide away, so it's nice to be able to at least shoot. Though having units as screeners in your own deployment area is also a thing for many battles, but marines tend to be a bit expensive for that points-wise.

[Mmmmm Napalm]

Anyone still planning on taking 5 man intercessor squads alongside their Crusaders? Thinking of some for backfield babysitting.

Yep, I'm taking a shooty Intercessor squad or two, and at least 1 assault intercessor squad. My fluff for them will be that they're greyshields who choose to fight as they had prior to joining the Templars.

[Marshal Reinhard]

I'm just gonna have one big mass of initiates that i can put in crusader squads or assault/regular intercessor squads. I don't need no in lore justification because they're all considered crusaders squads... its only a distinction crunchwise

[Sir Clausel]

I'm just gonna have one big mass of initiates that i can put in crusader squads or assault/regular intercessor squads. I don't need no in lore justification because they're all considered crusaders squads... its only a distinction crunchwise

Im gonna do the same properly. Especially since a 10 man barebones assault intercessor squad is only 7 point more than a barebones crusader squad with closecombat weapons.