Primaris Crusader Squads

[a_typical_hero]

I didn't see that we have a dedicated thread just for Crusader Squads, so I want to share my first experience with it here as well.

In a 1000p game I had one squad of 10 with two fists, axe, pistols & chainswords. No further support.

 

It got wacked pretty good right in the first turn of Ork shooting. Lost 6 guys to a Dakkajet and a Squig buggy and two more in melee. 20" between me and those Ork boys are apparently not as safe as I thought :D

Needless to say, the remaining fist didn't hit squat and I had to use Insane Bravery for the first time this edition in order to not lose the squad completely.

 

I would not recommend running it unsupported. 5+ Feel no Pain from a Chaplain along with his LD 9 and re-roll hit litany is imho mandatory for 10 man.

For a blob of 20 I would strongly consider using an Inquisitor with Psychic Fortitude to auto pass morale tests. If we make him Malleus with the respective WT, he brings 2 denies to the table as well for just 60p and 1CP.

 

For now I will recommission my Crusader squad Initiates as 5 Assault Intercessor while the Neophytes get to be Incursors.

[Charlo]

Intercessors are important as they let us take units smaller than 10. Which is great for Impulsors!

 

I really wish Primaris Crusaders could rock at a minimum 5 Initiates but I get why they can't.

[Mmmmm Napalm]

I'm just gonna have one big mass of initiates that i can put in crusader squads or assault/regular intercessor squads. I don't need no in lore justification because they're all considered crusaders squads... its only a distinction crunchwise

I can't do this because im a weirdo and I have to give them squad numbers lol (not for Sword Brethren and vets though).

 

I've pulled the arms off of about 20 of my unpainted Intercessors (of both varieties). I'm gonna give them chained weapons and put many of them in crusader squads so i don't have any duplicate bodies in a given squad. 

Edited October 18, 2021 by Mmmmm Napalm

[tvih]

Intercessors are important as they let us take units smaller than 10. Which is great for Impulsors!

 

I really wish Primaris Crusaders could rock at a minimum 5 Initiates but I get why they can't.

Nice that the new Initiate models can still be used for either variety of Intercessor, though. Not confusing or anything WYSIWYG-wise since the wargear along with the inclusion or lack of Neophytes clearly indicates which of the three squads it is. But yeah, using them as Intercessors of course does away with the wargear options beyond the Sword Brother.

[Medjugorje]

Intercessors are important as they let us take units smaller than 10. Which is great for Impulsors!

 

I really wish Primaris Crusaders could rock at a minimum 5 Initiates but I get why they can't.

For that we have Assault Intercessors. They are in general more what GW want to Assault Marines just put them into troops. 

[Charlo]

 

Intercessors are important as they let us take units smaller than 10. Which is great for Impulsors!

 

I really wish Primaris Crusaders could rock at a minimum 5 Initiates but I get why they can't.

For that we have Assault Intercessors. They are in general more what GW want to Assault Marines just put them into troops. 

 

Oh exactly, just would have been nice to get more than one fist/ sword in there :D 

[tvih]

Why on earth is the shotgun the same cost as the carbine, when the latter has +6" range? Rather disappointing, as I always liked the look of Astartes shotguns  Or is the Carbine not 24" Assault 2? My army set arrives on Wednesday so I'm relying on BattleScribe at the moment.

Edited October 18, 2021 by tvih

[a_typical_hero]

Shotguns can be pushed to 2D with a stratagem.

[Mandragola]

For me I think it’s ABRs and maybe the occasional fist on initiates, chainswords on the kids and the sergeant should have the sword of judgment relic.

 

I like the idea of big units in a MSU meta. They’ll be awkward for melee opponents to deal with. One MSU squad won’t be able to kill them all and then you’ll pop the interrupt strat to punch everyone else.

 

It’s a shame about the cost of pyreblasters. They do roughly double the damage an ABR does though, so they’re not as horrible as all that. They’re just odd though, and underwhelming.

[Medjugorje]

in some matchups 2dmg is crazy when you have your shotguns protectey by initiates. 16 shots with rerolling hits and rerolling wound rolls of1 in the tactical doctrine can be amazing.

[Palmu]

I was actually impressed by Laeroth's reasoning on max squads with 4 Fists and whatever the SB wants to take - These 5 melee dudes are just a mini terminator squad hiding behind 15 ablative models that can all freely bring shooting because the 5-man squad should have well enough fightiness.

[9x19 Parabellum]

Has anyone considered a black tide objective secured spam supported by buff characters?

 

I'm thinking something like:

2 x 20 crusaders with gubbins as you like

1 x 10 intercessors with abr

1 x 10 intercessors with br

1 x 5 infiltrators

1 x 5 intercessors with sbr

 

Helbrecht

Grimaldus littany of divine prot + ?

Apothecary with chief apoth upgrade, Aurellian Shroud

 

1x5 BGV Icon, Champ, SoJ

 

Uphold the Honor

 

That's around 2,000 points.

Cluster units around Grimaldus and Apoth for 6+++.   Pop Aurellian shroud turn 1 for 4+ invuln.

Kill all the small things, don't worry about tanks and big stuff. The idea here is to just maximize endurance and board control and win on primaries.

[Kastor Krieg]

Has anyone considered a black tide objective secured spam supported by buff characters?

 

I'm thinking something like:

2 x 20 crusaders with gubbins as you like

1 x 10 intercessors with abr

1 x 10 intercessors with br

1 x 5 infiltrators

1 x 5 intercessors with sbr

 

Helbrecht

Grimaldus littany of divine prot + ?

Apothecary with chief apoth upgrade, Aurellian Shroud

 

1x5 BGV Icon, Champ, SoJ

 

Uphold the Honor

 

That's around 2,000 points.

Cluster units around Grimaldus and Apoth for 6+++.   Pop Aurellian shroud turn 1 for 4+ invuln.

Kill all the small things, don't worry about tanks and big stuff. The idea here is to just maximize endurance and board control and win on primaries.

If buff sources die, it seems like it's over. You don't have anything fast to react with either. I'd definitely squeeze in a biker Chap and bikers for him to roll with. Give him Dem Bones and watch the opponents futile efforts to kill him while everything else slogs on.

 

Also, high-STR weapons? Antitank?

[a_typical_hero]

The list is lacking any damage output outside of Helbrecht and the BGV and I'm really not sure how durable it really is. The big units will take Blasts left and right and are vulnerable to morale. Still, give it a try and tell us about it.

[9x19 Parabellum]

 

Has anyone considered a black tide objective secured spam supported by buff characters?

 

I'm thinking something like:

2 x 20 crusaders with gubbins as you like

1 x 10 intercessors with abr

1 x 10 intercessors with br

1 x 5 infiltrators

1 x 5 intercessors with sbr

 

Helbrecht

Grimaldus littany of divine prot + ?

Apothecary with chief apoth upgrade, Aurellian Shroud

 

1x5 BGV Icon, Champ, SoJ

 

Uphold the Honor

 

That's around 2,000 points.

Cluster units around Grimaldus and Apoth for 6+++.   Pop Aurellian shroud turn 1 for 4+ invuln.

Kill all the small things, don't worry about tanks and big stuff. The idea here is to just maximize endurance and board control and win on primaries.

If buff sources die, it seems like it's over. You don't have anything fast to react with either. I'd definitely squeeze in a biker Chap and bikers for him to roll with. Give him Dem Bones and watch the opponents futile efforts to kill him while everything else slogs on.

 

Also, high-STR weapons? Antitank?

 

 

how are the buff sources going to die with 75 2 (or more) wound bodies to chew through?

 

I totally agree on the speed problem/reaction problem though. The thought is you just push forward, leaving behind the smaller / depleted units on objectives as you push forward.  As I said in the initial post, this army is really more about board control and pushing your opponent back.

 

Antitank....nope.  :-)  Your antitank is surround tanks and don't worry about them while you grab primaries with objective secured.

[tvih]

Big units or otherwise units with at least around 50 attacks on the charge certainly have decent potential with Psalm of Remorseless Persecution. If you can get those attacks - less will do if you have rerolls, of course - it'll be 6 MW with Shock Assault on average. And of course if the BattleScribe wording is right, you can take benefit of it in a multi-charge if you get all of the models in with a 20-man squad since the 6 MW cap is per target unit.

 

I don't really plan on more than the one 10-man Crusader squad specifically, but I could see a 10-man jump VV unit or a 6-man Outrider Squad along with a Psalm-reciting bike Chaplain packing a nice mobile punch.

[a_typical_hero]

Outriders are sadly limited to 3 per unit :(

[BitsHammer]

I was actually impressed by Laeroth's reasoning on max squads with 4 Fists and whatever the SB wants to take - These 5 melee dudes are just a mini terminator squad hiding behind 15 ablative models that can all freely bring shooting because the 5-man squad should have well enough fightiness.

That's largely where my mind has been going for the squad as well.

[tvih]

Outriders are sadly limited to 3 per unit

Ah, damn it. I was assuming it was a BattleScribe error, could've sworn I had recently planned other lists with Outrider squads being 6... oh well, that just means jump VV it is, I suppose. Well, I suppose it allows leaving the 3 outriders as protection for the chaplain in case the VV make the charge but the chaplain can't. Or something.

 

Anyways, I do find it interesting that the power fist is "the" heavy melee weapon for Primaris Crusaders. Though I suppose it's fittingly due to being IF successors. The new power fist bit looks nice for sure. A squad with 4 of them would really need Helbrecht's full rerolls for the hit rolls though. Had a painful reminder in my Saturday battle of how crappy hitting on 4+ is with thunder hammers and power fists and no rerolls.

[9x19 Parabellum]

I was actually impressed by Laeroth's reasoning on max squads with 4 Fists and whatever the SB wants to take - These 5 melee dudes are just a mini terminator squad hiding behind 15 ablative models that can all freely bring shooting because the 5-man squad should have well enough fightiness.

 

Correction....hiding behind 30 ablative wounds :-)

[tvih]

Models vs wounds ;) Both are correct.

[a_typical_hero]

 

Anyways, I do find it interesting that the power fist is "the" heavy melee weapon for Primaris Crusaders. Though I suppose it's fittingly due to being IF successors. The new power fist bit looks nice for sure. A squad with 4 of them would really need Helbrecht's full rerolls for the hit rolls though. Had a painful reminder in my Saturday battle of how crappy hitting on 4+ is with thunder hammers and power fists and no rerolls.

 

That's what I'm saying as well. Fists without any kind of re-rolls just plain suck. But! we can get them in many ways.

 

Full re-rolls:

- Chapter Master for 1 unit per turn

- Chaplain (Litany of Hate) as an aura

- Sigismund's Seal against a specific enemy unit

 

Re-roll 1s:

- Captain as an aura

- Dreadnought with Wisdom of the Ancients as an aura

[BitsHammer]

 

 

Anyways, I do find it interesting that the power fist is "the" heavy melee weapon for Primaris Crusaders. Though I suppose it's fittingly due to being IF successors. The new power fist bit looks nice for sure. A squad with 4 of them would really need Helbrecht's full rerolls for the hit rolls though. Had a painful reminder in my Saturday battle of how crappy hitting on 4+ is with thunder hammers and power fists and no rerolls.

 

That's what I'm saying as well. Fists without any kind of re-rolls just plain suck. But! we can get them in many ways.

 

Full re-rolls:

- Chapter Master for 1 unit per turn

- Chaplain (Litany of Hate) as an aura

- Sigismund's Seal against a specific enemy unit

 

Re-roll 1s:

- Captain as an aura

- Dreadnought with Wisdom of the Ancients as an aura

 

We can also get a lot of attacks in general out of them as well.

[Kastor Krieg]

how are the buff sources going to die with 75 2 (or more) wound bodies to chew through?

Pretty easily?

 

https://games-workshop.ru/wh40k9ed/factions/officio-assassinorum/Vindicare-Assassin

https://games-workshop.ru/wh40k9ed/factions/space-marines/Eliminator-Squad

 

And other sources of "Ignore <Look Out, Sir!>".

[9x19 Parabellum]

I'm not saying there aren't ways to snipe them, but I'd hardly call that "pretty easy".