A change of perspective

[Plague _Lord]

Had been quite inactive lately, due to a long vacation (much needed)! This hiatus from gaming gave me some time to think and this is the question I have for myself and you all: do we really need our contagion?

 

So I'm going to a tournament next week and am thinking about my list's weaknesses:

 

1. Apart form spawn and winged DP my army is really slow. This leads to...

2. I start to score primary late in the game. Mission and advance rolls dependant, but I regularly only get 5 primary points in turn 2 and 10 isnt guaranteed in turn 3

 

This got me thinking...what remedy can I come with to counteract my lack of early game pressure? NURGLINGS! And lot's of em. I'm thinking about souping in a poxpringer and 10 nurglings bases (2x5). What are the boons?

 

1. I aplly pressure from turn 1 and can also counter other infiltrators.

2. More screening for CoF.

3. Possibility of tying something up if opponent is careless.

4. Poxbringer can caddy PBC and heal them or DP if need be.

5. Possible 2nd miasma (or not? It's a different spell right?)

 

In exchange I give up the - 1T contagion and 2 CP. The only instances where I would miss it are ehen my dp is going into T8 and when my terminators are going into T4/6. I actually often forget that I have the bloody thing in the first place, often rolling against unmodified toughness...

 

 

So what do you think? Is the extra board control and scoring worth the loss of - 1T contagion?

 

PL

[WickedJester1013]

I’m not expert, but with the change to no prisoners swarms can give up a lot of secondary points from what I hear.

[KingYertle]

I think the real question is Does your army rely on the -1T or will the lack of it hurt your offensive output.

 

In my personal experience, the -1T is great on axe wielding Blightlords when they come up against T7 vehicles and T4 MEQ Infantry, which I face often.   However, They've just as often been negated by Transhuman.  It does seem like every army in the game is getting some form of Transhuman or Transhuman light (1 & 2 autofail), which is a hard counter to our -1T Contagion which often has us wounding infantry on 2s rather than 3s.

 

If your meta is dominated by T3 bodies, I think you are on to something with not needing to build around Contagions of Nurgle.  Infiltrating Nurlgings are great because they both fill a gap in our codex while also providing a good screen for our slow infantry.  They also force your opponent to target them to deny the early 15 point primary.  

 

I'm less enamored with the Poxbringer.  He isn't that cheap.  The Surgeon is a better healer for the same points, and the Plaguecaster is a better caster for only 20 pts more.  His +1Str aura won't buff PBCs and he doesn't have the speed to keep up with our other daemon engines.  He could be a decent companion for the Prince, but does the Prince really need him? 

 

I think your ideas has legs.  Being able to grab an early 15 point Primary, or slow down a Murder Elf alpha strike could be key to a victory.  However, I think I'd rather keep trying to make the book work as is, maybe summoning in a few deamons, rather than spending the 2 CP on a detachment.   I wouldn't be surprised if the 9th edition Daemon codex has a means for bringing Nurgle Daemons without loosing our Contagions.  After all, all those Daemons were in the 8th edition codex.  Its a bit of a slap in the face for new players who collected both Death Guard and Nurgle Daemons that they now are penalized for bringing both. 

[Tokugawa]

That goes into another archetype. Since terminators has bad synergy in this shell, you will want to reduce them, and add more decent daemon units. e. g. Epidemius. Fewer marine units then means less poxwalker but more nurglings…

 

The army won't be DG, but slowly becoming nurgle daemon with DG daemon engines, after games. One day you may want to add Belakor to your list.

[Tipper]

I don’t have Deamon experience, so I won’t speak to that. As for the Contagion, I really like it! Does it always have an in game effect, no. But out of game, I can see what it does to my opponent when I ask for Toughness and then ask if that has the negative 1 factored in. It makes them antsy. And when it actually does work, actually does bump that die roll, damn that feels good!

 

It sounds like you have a cool idea, and you should totally go for it! However may I suggest, before you commit, try to really play into the contagion first. Since you said you mostly forget. Find your best matchups and press the advantage that it gives.

[Angelus Nex]

Does the contagion ability dissappear when you summon daemons?

[Wolf Lord Loki]

Does the contagion ability dissappear when you summon daemons?

I would argue no. As the conditions (i believe this is correct but I could be wrong) say you need to be battle forged and mono faction at the Start of the game. You don't chose your daemons until after the first summoning roll (if you roll really well you could put down what ever you like) and that would be after the game has started.

 

But summoning wouldn't help with board control. In order to get the nurgling scout move you heed to start with them on the table which means a separate or mixed detachment which invalidates the Contagion conditions

[Special Officer Doofy]

https://www.goonhammer.com/the-2021-big-40k-faqs-hot-take-chaos-edition/

 

It was in a FAQ, that summoning does not break it. It was the same FAQ that let inexonerable advance ignore difficult terrain. I linked the goonhammer review that talks about it.

[Jorgend Lupus]

You can try it that way but I think Summoning would allow you almost the same tactics but would keep Contagion and your precious 2 CP !

You just need to position 2 characters correctly during deployment phase so that they can both summon a squad of Nurglings et voilà, you get your 15 VP turn one :) !

 

As Tokugawa said, you will probably be tempted to play Nurgle daemons and allied Daemon engines if you try to optimize this kind of list, which is perfectly fluffy and fun by the way.

 

Whatever you choose, let us know how it went...

[KingYertle]

Looking at the Mission Maps, most of the midfield objective markers are no more than 12 inches from the edge of the deployment zone, which gets them in range for summoning.  The hard part is 1) Going second and needing to summon 9 inches away from your opponent, and 2)Needing characters who are ok staying stationary for a turn.  (I tried very unsuccessfully to argue that Remaining Stationary should allow us to move and Summon.  Goonhammer did not agree).  

 

Staying true your original idea, what are you thinking for the rest of your army?  That will go a long way to determining if you really need the -1T aura and can afford the 2 CP.

[Plague _Lord]

Interesting thoughts.

Well my current list is more or lees: Winged DP, Plaguecaster, LoV, 10 plague marines with full shooty loadout, 2x20 poxwalkers, 10 terminators with flails and reapers, 3 deathshroud, contemptor with double volkite, PBC with entropy, 2 spawn, blightspawn, tallyman. I would probably decrease the plague marines to a 5man squad and some shave some zombies to get that detachment in.

 

I haven't lost a game in 9th yet, but I also haven't been to a tournament with my DG. One time I went to a different venue with my space wolves I went up against GSC, Admech, Necrons and Harlies. All in all my list is all about doing a lot of midrange damage on turn 2 and I use combat as a coupe de grace on turns 3+.  Against these opponent the -1T wouldn't be too good as we don't really have much problems with going through mass T3 units and marines counter it with transhuman when it counts.

 

Summoning the nurglings in is an interesting concept, but still doesnt help against armies with infiltrators (space marines, admech, orks, DE), neither does it help against fast armies when going second (GSC, Harlies, DE, White scars).