Fire strike turret buff?

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

I just realized the techmarine isn’t a named part of the data sheet, would adding the techmarine on the data sheet with all the normal rules and buffs of the role, be enough to get the firestrike turret some more regular love?

[Jorin Helm-splitter]

I don't think giving it the extra techmarine rules would help that much. It doesn't have a lot of wounds so the healing is ok, but I think in most cases it won't get an opportunity to use that ability. It already has great BS, so the +1 to hit would be pretty situational and I'm not sure if you want another vehicle hanging out next to it. I really think its a gunline unit in an edition that does not favor them.

 

If I were going to buff it, I think I would give it some sort of anti-deep strike ability for example let it shoot at units that deep strike within a certain distance or even the infiltrators deep strike denial. Plus maybe an invulnerable save. It'd have a niche, I don't know if it would be popular but I would give it a try.

Edited October 21, 2021 by Jorin Helm-splitter

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

I don't think giving it the extra techmarine rules would help that much. It doesn't have a lot of wounds so the healing is ok, but I think in most cases it won't get an opportunity to use that ability. It already has great BS, so the +1 to hit would be pretty situational and I'm not sure if you want another vehicle hanging out next to it. I really think its a gunline unit in an edition that does not favor them.

 

If I were going to buff it, I think I would give it some sort of anti-deep strike ability for example let it shoot at units that deep strike within a certain distance or even the infiltrators deep strike denial. Plus maybe an invulnerable save. It'd have a niche, I don't know if it would be popular but I would give it a try.

I was kinda thinking pairing it with a dread might not be a horrible idea. Also w/ thechmarine as it’s one thing on the datasheet you’d expect them to push it up to 6-7 wounds as well. Just a little more durable.

 

Was just a thought though.

 

Edit

Or make a stratagem that allows it to shoot at a deepstriking unit when they deep strike for 1-2CP, and then give it an ability that negates the -1 to hit for fliers, making it a portable AA system rather than just a machine gun emplacement.

Edited October 21, 2021 by Inquisitor_Lensoven

[Karhedron]

The basic problem is that the Firestrike is overpriced. The basic Accelerator autocannon version costs 90 points. For 100 points you can get a squad of Suppressors who have 50% more identical firepower, far better movement and 1 more wound. They also have the suppression fire rule which can be handy, if situational. Granted they are T4/3+ rather than T5/2+ but that fact they are 3 models means they are not going to be wiped out by a single Darklance shot.

 

If the autocannon version costed 60 points, I might start to look at it but not at its current price.

Edited October 21, 2021 by Karhedron

[BloodyB]

My big problem is that it has no niche. The autocannons are just worse versions of a Suppressor squad's, and the Law talon is strictly worse than a Dev squad with Las. What can this unit do that another can't? The only answer is somehow shuffle around the board without any locomotion (I think the Techmarine pushes it around). If it had something like the Necron Doomstalker's overwatch power then it could be entertaining at least. Not good, but a little funny.

 

Honestly, I think it looks pretty nice and adds some fluffy goodness to any army, but I see it more as terrain than a unit.

[Karhedron]

The irony is that the Autocannon profile is pretty good against units that are currently performing well in the meta like DE skimmers. The fact that it is still not worth taking shows just how badly overpriced it is.

[Warhead01]

The irony is that the Autocannon profile is pretty good against units that are currently performing well in the meta like DE skimmers. The fact that it is still not worth taking shows just how badly overpriced it is.

This completely sums it up for me.  As you pointed out Suppressor squads give you more for less.  I really wanted to be "sold" on the  Firestrike turret but I just can't do it. 

I don't know if the Lastallon really has much of a use or not on the Firestrike turret. 

 

In the past I would have said it depended on the points size of the game, for me. In maybe a smaller points game it might have been a good idea but with 9th I can't say one way or the other.  

[Jacques Corbin]

Wouldn't it be bitterly ironic if when they release Suppressors as a full kit, their other weapon option was Lastalons?

[Warhead01]

Wouldn't it be bitterly ironic if when they release Suppressors as a full kit, their other weapon option was Lastalons?

oof. Intereing thought but what would the points look like and which unit become the better choice with the lastalons? 

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

My big problem is that it has no niche. The autocannons are just worse versions of a Suppressor squad's, and the Law talon is strictly worse than a Dev squad with Las. What can this unit do that another can't? The only answer is somehow shuffle around the board without any locomotion (I think the Techmarine pushes it around). If it had something like the Necron Doomstalker's overwatch power then it could be entertaining at least. Not good, but a little funny.

 

Honestly, I think it looks pretty nice and adds some fluffy goodness to any army, but I see it more as terrain than a unit.

even if they chopped the points to 50 I don’t see people taking them tbh.

 

But I think it could have a good place in narrative games with an orbital landing scenario if they made the autocannons negate the -1 to hit of fliers, and could shoot deepstrikers on the enemy turn when they come in.

[Karhedron]

oof. Intereing thought but what would the points look like and which unit become the better choice with the lastalons?

I would think Suppressors would work better with Lastalons as their movement makes up for the weapon's shorter range.

 

The problem with Lastalon Firestrikes is the short range on a low mobility platform. A Lastalon Firestrike costs 130 points, gets 4 anti-tank shots at 24" range with 3" movement and 5 T5 Wounds. For 135 points you can get a squad of 3 Eradicators who have 6 anti-tank shots, 5" move and 9 T5 wounds. The Eradicators are also Core and so can be buffed more easily.

[Orange Knight]

The points are totally off for the turrets, and also for the various tanks.

 

When I see a turret like this, a defensive platform comes to mind. It needs additional rules such as the ability to fire at units arriving from reserve, or a stratagem that allows it to shoot at units in the opponent's turn under certain conditions.

 

As it stands it's simply a very cool looking unit that has been balanced terribly within it's own codex and the general game itself.

[TheNewman]

A LasTalon is 20 points over the Accelerator Autocannon on the Firestrike, it's a pretty safe bet Suppressors with LasTalons would be 160 points and called something different. My first though is "ug that's awful", but on the other hand...

 

25 points over Eradicators for native Deepstrike is something I might actually consider. S9 doesn't make up for losing Melta, but being able to split fire without losing half the shots and not being limited to 6" off a board edge for placement kinda does.

 

Edit: Suppression Fire is a rule on the Suppressors that specifies firing the Autocannon. That's odd wording for a unit with no other weapon options, so it's possible LasTaloniers wouldn't pay the full 20 points for the gun upgrade. 145 would be a lot more palatable than 160.

Edited October 22, 2021 by TheNewman

[Lord_Valorion]

I think you all forget that Supressors suffer from the heavy weapon to hit malus.

[Karhedron]

I think you all forget that Supressors suffer from the heavy weapon to hit malus.

No. Even with that, Suppressors would be a superior platform for a short-ranged weapon like the Las Talon.

[TheNewman]

 

I think you all forget that Supressors suffer from the heavy weapon to hit malus.

No. Even with that, Suppressors would be a superior platform for a short-ranged weapon like the Las Talon.

Especially since there's a main-Codex strat to allow a unit to count as stationary if it didn't advance and that's at it's most valuable on a unit like Suppressors with a really high base Movement stat.

[Jorin Helm-splitter]

 

I don't think giving it the extra techmarine rules would help that much. It doesn't have a lot of wounds so the healing is ok, but I think in most cases it won't get an opportunity to use that ability. It already has great BS, so the +1 to hit would be pretty situational and I'm not sure if you want another vehicle hanging out next to it. I really think its a gunline unit in an edition that does not favor them.

 

If I were going to buff it, I think I would give it some sort of anti-deep strike ability for example let it shoot at units that deep strike within a certain distance or even the infiltrators deep strike denial. Plus maybe an invulnerable save. It'd have a niche, I don't know if it would be popular but I would give it a try.

I was kinda thinking pairing it with a dread might not be a horrible idea. Also w/ thechmarine as it’s one thing on the datasheet you’d expect them to push it up to 6-7 wounds as well. Just a little more durable.

 

Was just a thought though.

 

Edit

Or make a stratagem that allows it to shoot at a deepstriking unit when they deep strike for 1-2CP, and then give it an ability that negates the -1 to hit for fliers, making it a portable AA system rather than just a machine gun emplacement.

 

 

Boosting it up a couple of wounds would help. Personally I wouldn't have a dread babysit it but that has more to do with my chapter, I'm just going to get a lot more out of dread in CC than I will plinking away, more so because I only run primaris so I'd be wasting the redemptors best attacks.

 

I think you all forget that Supressors suffer from the heavy weapon to hit malus.

 

As others have stated there are ways around the hit penalty. That said I really think the biggest drawback is the lack of movement. When you look at how much obscuring terrain a lot of tournaments are using, its just hard for me to see the firestrike getting a lot of good shots, Its why I think an anti-reserves role could really help it.

 

For what its worth, 9th does need a lot of terrain so I don't think the tournaments are using to much. Otherwise a lot of games would be decided on turn 1.