Veteran units are not Sword Brethren

[Banjulhu]

So whilst going through the updated fluff I noticed that the background for the Templar now makes a clear distinction between veterans such as Termmies and Vanguard etc and the Sword Brethren.

Initiates may eventually become Veterans and be allowed to wear the red and black shoulder pads but that does not make them Sword Brethren and that the rank of Sword Brethren is now a step further up and presumably why Sword Brethren as a keyword has not be spread out to other units like Wolf Guard and Deathwing has.

[Charlo]

Yep, they're specifically the household guard of the Marshall.

[tvih]

It's funny when the WarCom article makes a point of how SB are free to fight how they want and all that - yet they can't be terminators, can't be shooty, can't have jump packs... I guess they must all be very single-minded :D

[Sir Clausel]

It's funny when the WarCom article makes a point of how SB are free to fight how they want and all that - yet they can't be terminators, can't be shooty, can't have jump packs... I guess they must all be very single-minded

 

Yeah and they dont have mastercrafted swords like the Bladeguard so they dont even have the best weaponry.

 

[Sword Brother Adelard]

I didn't take this as the way you've put the title. Not all 'veterans' in the normal sense of the word are Sword Brethren, but this was always the case. You could be a veteran marine of longstanding before the supplement, and not have been admitted to the Sword Brethren.

 

For example, Sword Brother Brusc, famous by the time of the Armageddon Crusade for being one of the oldest living marines in the chapter, was over 600 years old by 999M41, he had tried three times to join the Sword Brethren, and was 500 years old by the time they let him in. But that doesn't mean he wasn't a 'veteran' marine before then, he had been fighting over twice as long as Grimaldus had been alive, (Helbrecht is also scarily young. He was a neophyte at the battle where Grimaldus got into the Sword Brethren, so his rise must have been meteoric!) We also know that you can resign from the Sword Brethren, because one of Grimaldus' command squad had done exactly that as he got older. But he would still have been a veteran.

 

Also, just because not all Veterans are Sword Brethren, wouldn't mean that they would give up on things like using Terminator Armour, or jump packs after joining the inner circle, Sword Brethren could still fight in that equipment if they wished, and we know in other fluff sources that they have in the past. Such as when Helbrecht deployed with his Sword Brethren in Terminator Armour at the end of the Ghoul Stars crusade. I suppose I just don't take it all so literally as thinking that only the Sword Brethren models represent the Sword Brethren.

The big change, I have to admit, is that the Red and Black heraldry is seemingly no longer reserved to the Sword Brethren alone. But now described as a generic 'veteran' badge.

On the whole however, I quite like the flexibility all of this provides with painting, even moreso than before, you really are free to do what you want with shoulder pad colours and trim. Red trimmed assault intercessors - cool, black trimmed assault intercessors - also cool. Bladeguard with iniitate colours - up to them. 

 

I really like it.

 

[Marshal Loss]

Not to mention that neither Veterans nor SB need wear the red & black, which is great for those like me who would prefer to keep things in white & black. Some great little lore touches in our book.

[Gederas]

The big change, I have to admit, is that the Red and Black heraldry is seemingly no longer reserved to the Sword Brethren alone. But now described as a generic 'veteran' badge.

Yeah, this was big.

 

That being said, it seems though there IS a Sword Brethren marking: The sword with the scrollwork on it, as seen on the Sword Brother in the Primaris Crusader Squad and all the Sword Brethren in the new Primaris kit.

[Kastor Krieg]

Also, none or some or all of the above might be correct in your Crusade, because one thing Templars aren't is uniform.

[tvih]

 

Also, just because not all Veterans are Sword Brethren, wouldn't mean that they would give up on things like using Terminator Armour, or jump packs after joining the inner circle, Sword Brethren could still fight in that equipment if they wished, and we know in other fluff sources that they have in the past. Such as when Helbrecht deployed with his Sword Brethren in Terminator Armour at the end of the Ghoul Stars crusade. I suppose I just don't take it all so literally as thinking that only the Sword Brethren models represent the Sword Brethren.

Oh, I know in fluff they can do those things... I was just poking a little fun at their in-game representation.

 

Personally I always have and always will paint all Elite squads with Sword Brethren shoulders. If nothing else it means not having to paint white shoulders......

[redmapa]

In all honesty I dont really mind the distinction, in one way or another that idea that there were veterans who were Sword Brethren and Sword Brethren who were part of a Marshall's household was always a thing. I would have loved if <Sword Brethren> became a keyword for all Veterans much like <Deathwing> or <Death Company> became one but that didnt happen and now Sword Brethren are part of a Marshall's circle of trust, why not then give them the Company Veterans rules to act as bodyguards? Or access to more weapons like a command squad? I like the unit as it is but it feels constrained for no good reason and they really missed the mark to make them feel like they were a Marshall's personal veterans.

Edited October 22, 2021 by redmapa

[Tokugawa]

Having both unitname "sword brethren" and keyword "sword brethren" in the same book, would made the book very difficult to read.

[Gederas]

Having both unitname "sword brethren" and keyword "sword brethren" in the same book, would made the book very difficult to read.

Not really, they've done keywords and names in the same book with Age of Sigmar. When it's an effect or ability calling out a unit it'll be in normal text, but when it's calling out a keyword it'll be bold text.

[Schlitzaf]

In all honesty I dont really mind the distinction, in one way or another that idea that there were veterans who were Sword Brethren and Sword Brethren who were part of a Marshall's household was always a thing. I would have loved if <Sword Brethren> became a keyword for all Veterans much like <Deathwing> or <Death Company> became one but that didnt happen and now Sword Brethren are part of a Marshall's circle of trust, why not then give them the Company Veterans rules to act as bodyguards? Or access to more weapons like a command squad? I like the unit as it is but it feels constrained for no good reason and they really missed the mark to make them feel like they were a Marshall's personal veterans.

In fairness the way rules are worded they are backwards compatible with Vigilus and thus CVets can use SBros rules.

[Mmmmm Napalm]

Yeah I didn't mind this. While I would've liked Sword Brethren to be a keyword applied to Bladeguard, the various oldmarine vet squads, etc. from a fluff standpoint this is fine imo, not much has changed beyond the red on black being applicable to dudes who technically haven't been inducted into the Sword Brethren; non SB "vets" have been around for a while, and like others have said this gives us more flexibility regarding army schemes. Now I'm conflicted as to whether I want to give my bladeguard Red-on-Black or reserve that for true SB's and Castellans.

[BitsHammer]

It's funny when the WarCom article makes a point of how SB are free to fight how they want and all that - yet they can't be terminators, can't be shooty, can't have jump packs... I guess they must all be very single-minded

I mean the supplement talks about how important the Land Raider Crusader is to the chapter but Primaris can't right in it....

[Marshal Reinhard]

the sword wrapped by a coiled parchment icon denoting swordbrethren was present on the classic swordbrethren kit, and there's actually some transfers of it now to. They also included one on the new helbrecht in form if chained idol hanging from his belt.

 

makes me think you could potentially take dark angel hanging sword bits, wrap a thin bit of GS around it, and make one yourself

[Sword Brother Adelard]

I really want someone to make a printable Sword Brethren symbol!

[SWORD BROTHER RYAN]

I'm not seeing a problem here. Just because you are a veteran does not mean you become a SB automatically. In lore, it makes a LOT of sense. In real world armies, a lowly soldier could be a veteran of several battles and/or campaigns and not achieve NCO or officer status until they've earned it in the eyes of their unit chain of command. It does not take away from the fact that this particular soldier is a veteran, and possibly given some type of a role within the unit of responsibility over other less experienced troops.

 

Personally, I'll still run my Terminators as SB in TDA, even if they don't have a rule set for them other than as Terminators. Also, even though they did not give us a rule set for 1st gen SB, I do like the fact that they can still be used as SB in 1st gen Crusader squads. I know al lot of people are going to run then as some form of vanguard vets, but I think I like the idea of these older, cool looking, models as the SB in a standard Crusader Squad.

 

We didn't get everything we wanted, true, but we got a lot more than we have in the last 15+ years. I'm happy to see it.