Mechanized infantry Black Templars

[Tiger9gamer]

Hello! returning from a long haitus from 40k and GW to pick up black templars. Have some history with marines, but no matter what I always trend back to  a mechanized infantry. I am talking about Rhinos and Crusaders with tank support. As such I am mainly looking at a Firstborn list, but I want some questions answered first

1: What would be a good "Hammer" squad for an LRC? So far I have in mind a squad of 10 Stromshield vets, with the champion of the feast carrying the Fist of Belthas, x2 thunderhammers and the rest lightning claws. I could go for basic assault terminators as well, or even a relic terminator squad. With this I have a Sword of judgement captain/chapter master, apothecary and lieutenant. would this be viable? beyond having an awesome project to do with my spare 10 iron armor space marines, I would love if this is viable.

If I wanted to go Primaris, how would some blade guard in a repulsor compare to this? it would probably have an apothecary with them as well, as well as the same kind of CP expendature.

2: if I were to take firstborn marines, I plan on taking them all with chainswords just to play up the assaulty nature of the chapter. would it be worth taking an extra melee weapon initiate? or would I do better with just one more chainsword? and what do you recommend for the sword brother? model wise I have  several power axe serges, but I could expand beyond that as needed.

3: What kind of tank support would be best? so far I have a storm raven, a scorpion, at least one vindicator and one plasma predator that I will run as a lascannon pred. I also have a contemptor dread with dual kheres assault cannons, and a few regular ones with various armaments. my main question is how much anti-vehicle should I worry about?

4: How effective is a jump pack chaplain? I have one lying around and could run it, or could just run a biker chaplain like most Black templars seem to be doing. 

5: If I were to do a mechanized primaris list, what do you recommend?

[Medjugorje]

1. I would go with Terminators. Maybe an offensive Relicbearer ( not Icon of Heinman or Crux Obsidian - but thats just my first impression).

You could run VanVets but they would be so much cheaper with Jump Pack and jumping behind the LRC to hide them.

Company Vets are just restricted on 5 per unit but maybe a whole crusadersquad can do it. 

2. I think its the better choice although you dont have a stratagem which allows you faster charges.

3. A lot of strong Meltashots is usually in each list. So take care or spam it ( what mechalists usually do ).

And ... At the moment I think Land Speeders and Rhino chassies are the best  choices for this roles. But didnt played that often to confirm it.

4. fly is a better keyword then Bike but the statlines speak for it self. For a few points are close to double his input capability.

5. Impulsors !!! All other vehicles lack in game strength and all of them (Impulsors included) are too expensive /way too expensive.

[Prot]

It is worth mentioning there are more than a few Wolves players that are having very good success using multiple Impulsors in their lists. In some cases I’ve seen some go undefeated in GTs lately. 
 

I also think they need to come down on points a bit but I confess my bias towards Impulsor or mechanized infantry ( a bit of third edition never left me!) 

 

So with that bias in mind I love the MM upgrade on my Impulsors. I am trying to make this work in games locally as a theme of using two or more. It’s early to tell if it works yet. 
 

also some people are using the Impulsor Helblaster “hit and fade” trick using devote push as well. 

[Tiger9gamer]

Good ideas all around! Interesting ideas about the terminators, cause I am getting mixed signals between this meaty vanguard squad and terminators. Still, I do want a power squad like that to run up the field, and I could try both. 
 

for the power weapon initiate… I still don’t know if it is worth it just because there is only 1 attack on him normally, and I am very unlucky. For special weapons do you just suggest a melta gun? Or should I load up on points for sergeant combi meltas as well as power weapons?

[Jorin Helm-splitter]

It is worth mentioning there are more than a few Wolves players that are having very good success using multiple Impulsors in their lists. In some cases I’ve seen some go undefeated in GTs lately. 

 

I also think they need to come down on points a bit but I confess my bias towards Impulsor or mechanized infantry ( a bit of third edition never left me!) 

 

So with that bias in mind I love the MM upgrade on my Impulsors. I am trying to make this work in games locally as a theme of using two or more. It’s early to tell if it works yet. 

 

also some people are using the Impulsor Helblaster “hit and fade” trick using devote push as well. 

 

I run a couple of Impulsors in most games with my wolves. I agree that they're overcosted but I think BGV are undercosted so it works out. I'm kinda on the fence about starting BT, but if I were I would plan on using them. 

 

I think the 5++ vow & the multi-melta upgrade fixes the unit. It's basically a 15 point drop on the best base loadout, with a much stronger weapon option available. So I would consider them for units like hellblasters, and assault intercessors which I wouldn't with my wolves.

 

That said I doubt I would go full mechanized, there are too many benefits to having boots on the ground this edition. Which is a good thing, more often than mechanized has been the best way to play. IF your going for it, I think you need to play very aggressive, worry less about the mission and just get try to get most of your army in CC in as fast as possible. 

[Prot]

I am not decided on boots vs mech. Even a Repulsor does have potential application with a 5++ and a MM. I would love to try it. 
 

my thing is right now I feel that we need mech for protection as well as speed. The MM add on actually is a fantastic fluffy touch. 
 

against BA I just played, I found I wished I had more Impulsors….same thing with my AdMech game. Two totally different reasons but I’m not sure yet how deep to go with the mech part. I need some more reps. 

[Tiger9gamer]

I just played a 1k game in TTS against custodes and boy howdy do they hit hard. Only had 1 rhino in the list, but my sword of judgement / imperium's sword captain hit like a truck when he charged, and took the head off of Trajan. If my opponent didn't roll so lucky then my sword bretheren with the special power fist would have killed a full custodes squad. I just need to shake off the rust of these past editions.

I like the humble crusader squad a lot too. It's a nice change of pace to be able to charge without worry lol. Gonna get some more small scale games in as my army grows. 

[Jorin Helm-splitter]

I am not decided on boots vs mech. Even a Repulsor does have potential application with a 5++ and a MM. I would love to try it. 

 

my thing is right now I feel that we need mech for protection as well as speed. The MM add on actually is a fantastic fluffy touch. 

 

against BA I just played, I found I wished I had more Impulsors….same thing with my AdMech game. Two totally different reasons but I’m not sure yet how deep to go with the mech part. I need some more reps. 

 

Right now I tend to run 2 with my wolves, I think with BT I would run 4-5 of them. I just think you could go a bit lighter on some of the other melta options and run sword brethren or assault intercessors in them.

 

Problem is that it would be really similar to my space wolf list, and I just don't know if I could justify it.  

[Mandragola]

I think BT impulsors are the best that anyone has. 140 points buys you 11 wounds with a 5++, a multimelta and 12/16 S4 shots - 8 of them at ap-1. That's a pretty respectable combat vehicle. It's then just a question of what to put in it.

 

In most other armies the answer would be pretty clear: hellblasters and bladeguard. I think the same is probably true of BTs. There seems to be a reasonable case for running this army as a mechanised shooty list. Maybe a couple of Impulsors with assault hellblasters, a couple more with bladeguard, and some troops. I don't know if it's best to go with crusader squads or just the usual stuff like infiltrators to do actions and keep the enemy away.

[Tiger9gamer]

 So to dispel some mystery as to what I have in mind, this is the list I want to run some day using firstborn:

 

 

 

 

++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Imperium - Adeptus Astartes - Black Templars) [99 PL, 1,998pts, 11CP] ++

 

+ Configuration +

 

Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points) 

 

Chapter Selection: Black Templars

 

Detachment Command Cost

 

Gametype: Matched

 

+ HQ +

 

Chapter Master [7 PL, 140pts]: Chapter Command:  Chapter Master, Power sword, Storm shield, Sword of Judgement, Warlord

 

Lieutenants [4 PL, 70pts]

. Lieutenant: Astartes Chainsword, Master-crafted boltgun

 

Primaris Chaplain on Bike [6 PL, 115pts]: Litany of Hate

 

+ Troops +

 

Crusader Squad [10 PL, 200pts]

. 8x Initiate w/ Chainsword: 8x Astartes Chainsword, 8x Bolt pistol, 8x Frag & Krak grenades

. Initiate w/ Special Weapon: Meltagun

. Sword Brother: Bolt pistol, Power fist

 

Crusader Squad [10 PL, 200pts]

. 8x Initiate: 8x Bolt pistol, 8x Boltgun, 8x Frag & Krak grenades

. Initiate w/ Heavy or Melee Weapon: Grav-cannon

. Sword Brother: Combi-plasma

 

Crusader Squad [10 PL, 195pts]

. 8x Initiate w/ Chainsword: 8x Astartes Chainsword, 8x Bolt pistol, 8x Frag & Krak grenades

. Initiate w/ Special Weapon: Meltagun

. Sword Brother: Bolt pistol, Power axe

 

+ Elites +

 

Apothecary [4 PL, 75pts]

 

Vanguard Veteran Squad [13 PL, 303pts, -1CP]: Fist of Belthas

. Vanguard Veteran: Storm shield, Thunder hammer

. Vanguard Veteran: Storm shield, Thunder hammer

. Vanguard Veteran: Lightning Claw, Storm shield

. Vanguard Veteran: Lightning Claw, Storm shield

. Vanguard Veteran: Lightning Claw, Storm shield

. Vanguard Veteran: Lightning Claw, Storm shield

. Vanguard Veteran: Lightning Claw, Storm shield

. Vanguard Veteran: Lightning Claw, Storm shield

. Vanguard Veteran: Lightning Claw, Storm shield

. Vanguard Veteran Sergeant: Champion of the Feast, Power fist, Storm shield

 

+ Heavy Support +

 

Land Raider Crusader [15 PL, 290pts]: Multi-melta

 

Predator Annihilator [8 PL, 170pts]: Two Lascannons

 

+ Dedicated Transport +

 

Rhino [4 PL, 80pts]

 

Rhino [4 PL, 80pts]

 

Rhino [4 PL, 80pts]

 

++ Total: [99 PL, 11CP, 1,998pts] ++

 

Created with BattleScribe

dunno how good it would be, but it seems fun to try at least

Edited October 29, 2021 by Tiger9gamer

[Plague _Lord]

You are putting around 900 points in one place (I suspect all charachters are riding in the LRC with the VV?) and that rarely is a good idea.

 

If I go first then the AT in my army will on average take down that LRC in one round of shooting and my army isn't the shootiest (deathguard). So now your 600points of close combat units will have to leg it and probably die before they can fight, while my AT takes out your rhinos in the next rounds.

 

Sadly fully mechanised lists don't tend to work at the moment unless you are dark and pointy-eared.

 

What you would want is a mix of transports like rhinos or impulsors along with some dreads and forward deployment units. In this list you also lose against any tank heavy list cause your sole source of AT is the pred and it will go down fast. While I like the premise, I just don't think that mech lists will be in a good place unless rhinos go down to 50-60pts and Land Raiders to 190pts.

[Tiger9gamer]

You are putting around 900 points in one place (I suspect all charachters are riding in the LRC with the VV?) and that rarely is a good idea.

 

If I go first then the AT in my army will on average take down that LRC in one round of shooting and my army isn't the shootiest (deathguard). So now your 600points of close combat units will have to leg it and probably die before they can fight, while my AT takes out your rhinos in the next rounds.

 

Sadly fully mechanised lists don't tend to work at the moment unless you are dark and pointy-eared.

 

What you would want is a mix of transports like rhinos or impulsors along with some dreads and forward deployment units. In this list you also lose against any tank heavy list cause your sole source of AT is the pred and it will go down fast. While I like the premise, I just don't think that mech lists will be in a good place unless rhinos go down to 50-60pts and Land Raiders to 190pts.

Unfortunately I was worried about all that, but okay. How would you fix it? This is a majority of stuff I already own, and while casual I don’t want to be bodied. What would you do to keep the theme of the all tank list of first born?

 

(and yea they were all riding in the party bus :D but I guess that plan is bad )

Edited October 29, 2021 by Tiger9gamer

[a_typical_hero]

For your list I would suggest the following changes, keeping your general style while optimising it a bit.

 

Remove:

- Chapter Master upgrade

- Apothecary OR Lieutenant (personally leaning towards Lieutenant)

- Predator Annihilator

- Thunder Hammers on Vanguard Vets

 

Add:

- 2 Venerable Dreadnoughts with Multi-melta

 

Alternatives:

- Exchange a character for a Chaplain so you could add the Fist relic to the Vanguard Vet Sargeant.

Edited October 29, 2021 by a_typical_hero

[Tiger9gamer]

For your list I would suggest the following changes, keeping your general style while optimising it a bit.

 

Remove:

- Chapter Master upgrade

- Apothecary OR Lieutenant (personally leaning towards Lieutenant)

- Predator Annihilator

- Thunder Hammers on Vanguard Vets

 

Add:

- 2 Venerable Dreadnoughts with Multi-melta

 

Alternatives:

- Exchange a character for a Chaplain so you could add the Fist relic to the Vanguard Vet Sargeant.

okay, that is all fair. Though why remove the vanguard vets thunder hammers?

Edited October 29, 2021 by Tiger9gamer

[Plague _Lord]

 

You are putting around 900 points in one place (I suspect all charachters are riding in the LRC with the VV?) and that rarely is a good idea.

 

If I go first then the AT in my army will on average take down that LRC in one round of shooting and my army isn't the shootiest (deathguard). So now your 600points of close combat units will have to leg it and probably die before they can fight, while my AT takes out your rhinos in the next rounds.

 

Sadly fully mechanised lists don't tend to work at the moment unless you are dark and pointy-eared.

 

What you would want is a mix of transports like rhinos or impulsors along with some dreads and forward deployment units. In this list you also lose against any tank heavy list cause your sole source of AT is the pred and it will go down fast. While I like the premise, I just don't think that mech lists will be in a good place unless rhinos go down to 50-60pts and Land Raiders to 190pts.

Unfortunately I was worried about all that, but okay. How would you fix it? This is a majority of stuff I already own, and while casual I don’t want to be bodied. What would you do to keep the theme of the all tank list of first born?

 

(and yea they were all riding in the party bus but I guess that plan is bad )

 

 

I'm not sure tbh. You need objective holders - who is holding your backfield objective? I think you need a 5man squad to hold your backfield objective.

I would probably also get rid of the the LRC, give the VV jump packs and for the points of the LRC get 2 dreads with multimeltas.

I also think I would go all in on power fists on the crusader squads and for example you can pack a total of 4 power fists into 1 rhino (2x5 man squads) and they can acually do some damage in CC.

 

At the end of the day it depends on who you are playing against -  if your oponnent is also playing a fun, fluffy list then you should have a fun game with your list. If you play against random people at a club, then you could get mauled if you go up against a competitive player.

[Tiger9gamer]

 

 

You are putting around 900 points in one place (I suspect all charachters are riding in the LRC with the VV?) and that rarely is a good idea.

 

If I go first then the AT in my army will on average take down that LRC in one round of shooting and my army isn't the shootiest (deathguard). So now your 600points of close combat units will have to leg it and probably die before they can fight, while my AT takes out your rhinos in the next rounds.

 

Sadly fully mechanised lists don't tend to work at the moment unless you are dark and pointy-eared.

 

What you would want is a mix of transports like rhinos or impulsors along with some dreads and forward deployment units. In this list you also lose against any tank heavy list cause your sole source of AT is the pred and it will go down fast. While I like the premise, I just don't think that mech lists will be in a good place unless rhinos go down to 50-60pts and Land Raiders to 190pts.

Unfortunately I was worried about all that, but okay. How would you fix it? This is a majority of stuff I already own, and while casual I don’t want to be bodied. What would you do to keep the theme of the all tank list of first born?

 

(and yea they were all riding in the party bus but I guess that plan is bad )

 

 

I'm not sure tbh. You need objective holders - who is holding your backfield objective? I think you need a 5man squad to hold your backfield objective.

I would probably also get rid of the the LRC, give the VV jump packs and for the points of the LRC get 2 dreads with multimeltas.

I also think I would go all in on power fists on the crusader squads and for example you can pack a total of 4 power fists into 1 rhino (2x5 man squads) and they can acually do some damage in CC.

 

At the end of the day it depends on who you are playing against -  if your oponnent is also playing a fun, fluffy list then you should have a fun game with your list. If you play against random people at a club, then you could get mauled if you go up against a competitive player.

 

I completely forgot that I could have more than one squad in rhinos! Okay, that is good. I made a new list with that advice, and while much more expensive it feels pretty good. Still kept the LRC but that is subject to change, and managed to add two dreads at the cost of the apothecary and lieutenant

[a_typical_hero]

 

For your list I would suggest the following changes, keeping your general style while optimising it a bit.

 

Remove:

- Chapter Master upgrade

- Apothecary OR Lieutenant (personally leaning towards Lieutenant)

- Predator Annihilator

- Thunder Hammers on Vanguard Vets

 

Add:

- 2 Venerable Dreadnoughts with Multi-melta

 

Alternatives:

- Exchange a character for a Chaplain so you could add the Fist relic to the Vanguard Vet Sargeant.

okay, that is all fair. Though why remove the vanguard vets thunder hammers?

 

I'm away from my books, so I eyeballed the points. If you have enough to spare, of course you can keep them :)

[Tiger9gamer]

 

 

For your list I would suggest the following changes, keeping your general style while optimising it a bit.

 

Remove:

- Chapter Master upgrade

- Apothecary OR Lieutenant (personally leaning towards Lieutenant)

- Predator Annihilator

- Thunder Hammers on Vanguard Vets

 

Add:

- 2 Venerable Dreadnoughts with Multi-melta

 

Alternatives:

- Exchange a character for a Chaplain so you could add the Fist relic to the Vanguard Vet Sargeant.

okay, that is all fair. Though why remove the vanguard vets thunder hammers?

 

I'm away from my books, so I eyeballed the points. If you have enough to spare, of course you can keep them

 

Cool! Okay I revised my list and got this thanks to plague_lord and your help (…mostly. I kept the LRC because this is a casual ish list )

 

 

 

 

++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Imperium - Adeptus Astartes - Black Templars) [98 PL, 1,998pts, 10CP] ++

 

+ Configuration +

 

Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points) 

 

Chapter Selection: Black Templars

 

Detachment Command Cost

 

Gametype: Matched

 

+ Stratagems +

 

Strategem: Relics of the Chapter [-1CP]: Number of Extra Relics

 

+ HQ +

 

Captain [5 PL, 100pts]: Power sword, Storm shield, Sword of Judgement, The Imperium's Sword, Warlord

 

Primaris Chaplain on Bike [7 PL, 140pts]: 2. Psalm of the Remorseless Persecution, 4. Fires of Devotion, Chapter Command:  Master of Sanctity, Litany of Hate, Tannhauser's Bones

 

+ Troops +

 

Crusader Squad [5 PL, 110pts]

. 3x Initiate w/ Chainsword: 3x Astartes Chainsword, 3x Bolt pistol, 3x Frag & Krak grenades

. Initiate w/ Heavy or Melee Weapon: Power fist

. Sword Brother: Boltgun, Power fist

 

Crusader Squad [5 PL, 110pts]

. 3x Initiate w/ Chainsword: 3x Astartes Chainsword, 3x Bolt pistol, 3x Frag & Krak grenades

. Initiate w/ Heavy or Melee Weapon: Power fist

. Sword Brother: Boltgun, Power fist

 

Crusader Squad [5 PL, 110pts]

. 3x Initiate w/ Chainsword: 3x Astartes Chainsword, 3x Bolt pistol, 3x Frag & Krak grenades

. Initiate w/ Heavy or Melee Weapon: Power fist

. Sword Brother: Boltgun, Power fist

 

Crusader Squad [5 PL, 110pts]

. 3x Initiate w/ Chainsword: 3x Astartes Chainsword, 3x Bolt pistol, 3x Frag & Krak grenades

. Initiate w/ Heavy or Melee Weapon: Power fist

. Sword Brother: Boltgun, Power fist

 

Crusader Squad [5 PL, 100pts]

. 3x Initiate: 3x Bolt pistol, 3x Boltgun, 3x Frag & Krak grenades

. Initiate w/ Heavy or Melee Weapon: Grav-cannon

. Sword Brother: Boltgun

 

Crusader Squad [5 PL, 105pts]

. 3x Initiate: 3x Bolt pistol, 3x Boltgun, 3x Frag & Krak grenades

. Initiate w/ Special Weapon: Meltagun

. Sword Brother: Power axe

 

+ Elites +

 

Vanguard Veteran Squad [13 PL, 303pts, -1CP]: Fist of Balthus

. Vanguard Veteran: Storm shield, Thunder hammer

. Vanguard Veteran: Storm shield, Thunder hammer

. Vanguard Veteran: Lightning Claw, Storm shield

. Vanguard Veteran: Lightning Claw, Storm shield

. Vanguard Veteran: Lightning Claw, Storm shield

. Vanguard Veteran: Lightning Claw, Storm shield

. Vanguard Veteran: Lightning Claw, Storm shield

. Vanguard Veteran: Lightning Claw, Storm shield

. Vanguard Veteran: Lightning Claw, Storm shield

. Vanguard Veteran Sergeant: Champion of the Feast, Power fist, Storm shield

 

Venerable Dreadnought [8 PL, 140pts]: Multi-melta

. Dreadnought combat weapon w/Storm Bolter

 

Venerable Dreadnought [8 PL, 140pts]: Multi-melta

. Dreadnought combat weapon w/Storm Bolter

 

+ Heavy Support +

 

Land Raider Crusader [15 PL, 290pts]: Multi-melta

 

+ Dedicated Transport +

 

Rhino [4 PL, 80pts]: Storm bolter

 

Rhino [4 PL, 80pts]: Storm bolter

 

Rhino [4 PL, 80pts]: Storm bolter

 

++ Total: [98 PL, 10CP, 1,998pts] ++

 

Created with BattleScribe

 

Edited October 29, 2021 by Tiger9gamer

[Tiger9gamer]

Alright, So I am currently trying to find a good loadout for my Marshals. So far on the firstborn one I know I want to have the Sword of judgement along with the Imperium's sword so he is 6 attacks on the charge at str 8. Just to add on, I was thinking of boosting that up to 7 attacks with Strike first by spending one CP on Heir of sigismund as well, just to have him go crazy.

Also, I got my hands on the black templar box set, so now I have a good size contingent of primaris assault marines and crusaders. Is it worth it to put a crusader squad into one repulsor kitted out for anti-tank? or should they be foot slogging?

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I’d try foot slogging.

[Tiger9gamer]

I’d try foot slogging.

Okay, I will! But should I give the primaris crusaders autobolt rifles and power fists? Or should they all have close combat weapons? 

[Hymnblade]

1: What would be a good "Hammer" squad for an LRC? So far I have in mind a squad of 10 Stromshield vets, with the champion of the feast carrying the Fist of Belthas, x2 thunderhammers and the rest lightning claws. I could go for basic assault terminators as well, or even a relic terminator squad. With this I have a Sword of judgement captain/chapter master, apothecary and lieutenant. would this be viable? beyond having an awesome project to do with my spare 10 iron armor space marines, I would love if this is viable.

 

If I wanted to go Primaris, how would some blade guard in a repulsor compare to this? it would probably have an apothecary with them as well, as well as the same kind of CP expendature.

 

An option which hasn't been mentioned yet is Assault Centurions. They're slower and more vulnerable than Assault Terminators, so they benefit more from having a transport. I also find them just a very fun unit to use because they can do so much damage between their shooting and their melee; it feels very satisfying on the occasions the whole squad gets into range and you get 60+10d6 flamer/bolter shots, followed by melee that will wreck literally anything. They can very comfortably pick up multiple squads and/or a superheavy in a single turn. Of course they'll have a great big target on their heads, but the LRC conveniently holds exactly 5 Centurions plus one Apothecary - so if you put the Crux Obsidian (and maybe Champion of the Feast) on the sergeant, he will be very good at tanking the kind of fire that usually threatens Centurions (with 2+/5++/6+++/T5/-1 damage/5 wounds), and once he dies, the Apothecary can rez him next turn to tank another 5 wounds for the squad. This combo isn't the most competitive possible thing, mostly because Centurions and the LRC are just very expensive, but it will hold up just fine in more casual games.

 

I would say it's basically never worth taking a Repulsor with its current datasheet and point cost, certainly not to transport Bladeguard who advance just as fast as the thing moves anyway.

 

Rather than putting the Sword of Judgement on your HQ, I'd rather give it to a sergeant via Revered Repositories, because HQs have access to lots of other great weapons, while sergeants don't. The Teeth of Terra or a master-crafted relic blade or thunder hammer can make for a very spicy Captain. Protip: an HQ with the Teeth of Terra is a lovely opportunity to use the otherwise-rarely-seen yet beautiful Eviscerator bit from the Assault Squad box.

 

 

 

2: if I were to take firstborn marines, I plan on taking them all with chainswords just to play up the assaulty nature of the chapter. would it be worth taking an extra melee weapon initiate? or would I do better with just one more chainsword? and what do you recommend for the sword brother? model wise I have  several power axe serges, but I could expand beyond that as needed.

 

In a crusader squad, paying for a weapon upgrade on a model with 1 attack is kind of eh. On sergeants or in veteran/Primaris squads it's worth taking at least a few stronger weapons, especially the multi-damage weapons. Fists, hammers, and relic blades still wreck infantry, but they also make the unit a threat to heavies.

 

3: What kind of tank support would be best? so far I have a storm raven, a scorpion, at least one vindicator and one plasma predator that I will run as a lascannon pred. I also have a contemptor dread with dual kheres assault cannons, and a few regular ones with various armaments. my main question is how much anti-vehicle should I worry about?

 

Currently Dreadnoughts basically dominate any other kind of Space Marine vehicle, because they have built-in Duty Eternal and decent melee, while tanks don't get any corresponding perks. Contemptors are very good, although its best loadout is dual Volkite instead of the Kheres. All the tanks are playable but not especially good; I like my Vindicator just because it's very tough for its point cost (T8, 2+ save against shooting) and can make a good 'distraction carnifex', but its big gun is too unreliable to be your main source of anti-tank.

 

A take-all-comers list should have a fair amount of anti-tank, ideally enough that you won't feel helpless if you come up against an army with a Knight (or even an army of pure Knights). You can get that from shooting, but you can also get a lot of your anti-tank from melee; fists and hammers and characters and even D2 Bladeguard swords can do a lot of work here.

 

The Storm Raven is in a slightly dire position; it's even more expensive than a Land Raider, harder to hide, and easier to kill. It's the only one on this list I'd hesitate to use at all, even in a casual game.

 

Two other things which aren't tanks per se, but which still fit the idea of a mechanized list, are bikes (Attack Bikes with multi-meltas are especially good) and drop pods (a Devastator squad or two with grav cannons or multi-meltas can drop in anywhere to delete a target of your choice).

 

4: How effective is a jump pack chaplain? I have one lying around and could run it, or could just run a biker chaplain like most Black templars seem to be doing. 

 

Very effective. I used mine extensively until the bike chaplain model came out. They still do their job of getting litanies where they need to go just fine, it's just that the bike chaplain does the same job just as well and is also a bit fightier and a lot harder to kill.

 

5: If I were to do a mechanized primaris list, what do you recommend?

 

 

There were some 'Impulsor Rush' lists for several chapters which did very well around the end of 8th edition. With multi-meltas on Impulsors and the freedom to take an extra gun instead of a shield dome thanks to Uphold giving a 5++ already, that could have some legs again. I wouldn't hurry out to buy 6 Impulsors, but 1-2 should be very usable even if you end up going in another direction with your collection.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

 

I’d try foot slogging.

Okay, I will! But should I give the primaris crusaders autobolt rifles and power fists? Or should they all have close combat weapons? 

 

 

id go auto bolt rifles.

[Tiger9gamer]

 

All good advice! I am thinking for 110 points to have a majority of crusaders with 3 Chainsword, 1 power fist initiate and sword brother with a power fist for my squads, but yea, I am liking all of this so far.

 

I do know that the sword of judgement could probably be put on better dudes, but I find myself giving it to my captain no matter what. Even above the teeth of terra, though I will have to try it out some time. I would give the blade of judgement to a bladeguard if I run one squad for a primaris build. I am pretty sad about the storm raven though. I just found all the parts for it too…

 

thanks for the advice to! I want to try everything. How does the devastations work in your opinion? They seem like they would miss out if they move or something.

 

I am also pretty sad about the repulsor, if only because I would love for my primaris crusaders to have a ride as well.

 

I think for the blade guard too I will just put an impulsor, as per your advice, so thanks!

 

I have a long way to go before that point unfortunately 

Edited November 1, 2021 by Tiger9gamer

[Tiger9gamer]

Alright, so I need to ask as I obsessively build lists again and again.

 

what would be the best Vanguard vet build? I am probably going to make a poll on Reddit for this too, but I know swords or axes would be amazing modeling wise, but they wouldn’t be as usable as lightning claws seem to be. Should I go with what is cool?