Death to Aircraft

[Amon777]

It is no secret at the moment that aircraft from two top factions, Orks and Ad Mech, are dominating the meta. 

 

The purpose of this thread is to strategize about how best to counter these threats. SMs have some dedicated AA in the form of the Hunter and the Stalker. Both are T8 which is useful for a backfield piece. The problem with the hunter is that is just one shot (though a powerful one) and the stalker has high shot volume but difficulty wounding and penetrating armor. Plus Ork flyers ignore the D2 since it's only strength 7 and Ad Mech flyers natural have -1dmg. 

 

Now, we can always just shoot and take the penalty to hit. I'm weirdly excited about las fusil eliminators of late with their natural BS2. We also have our own aircraft but they are no where near as survivable and quite pricey. 

 

What are other people's thoughts and experiences?

Edited October 28, 2021 by Amon777

[Iron Father Ferrum]

The Hunter looks like the best bet against those cases. The Skyspear's special ability means it's hitting on 2s and does an average of 9 damage against the ork and 8 against the Admech. It's only one shot so getting a reroll -- IH in DevDoc for example -- would be nice to make sure it hits home.

 

The Stalker's autocannons aren't useless though. They're better against infantry and most ground targets, plus against aircraft it's still 12 shots. Reduced to 1 damage hurts, but you're getting more versatility out of it.

[lansalt]

How about a Deredeo with Boreas air defence missiles plus side weapons to taste?

[Karhedron]

The other option is a bit more left field. Take a squad of MM Attack bikes and chuck a Chapter Master's buff on them. They have the speed to hunt down aircraft and hitting on 4s isn't so bad with full rerolls.

 

At close range you will average 16-17 wounds on an Ork flyer and 13-14 on Admech. At longer range you may not one-shot them but you should still be able to put some serious hurt on them.

[The Unseen]

My mm attack bikes have been the best anti air for me ever.

Back when Aeldari planes were hit on 6s thanks to stacking hit penalties, I had 2 bikes, and 1 plane in range.

Boxcars to hit, both wound, no save, boxcars again for damage.

My opponents face was priceless.

 

But realistically we have little that can kill them, as anything capable of reliably shooting the planes down becomes target #1 for the opponent, and it's near impossible to hide from the planes.

 

But a smash captain isn't a terrible choice.

Thunder Hammers tend to make a mess of planes.

[Captain Idaho]

Yeah if you get the chance to mob an aircraft with Vanguard (you got jump packs of course, right?) or hit them with a Jump Pack Captain, go for it.

 

I'm in the Attack Bike camp as a great choice. They can hurtle towards the flyer and do the damage needed for a kill.

 

Also remember that you can potentially hit them with just about any traditional anti-tank and only suffer a -1 to hit. Not completely obscene to overcome, especially with rerolls.

[Malakithe]

Gatling Redemptor near a Captain? CentDevs with Hurricanes? If we cant over come the lack of Str then might as well throw lots of shots. 

[a_typical_hero]

Don't forget to use the Flakk Missile stratagem to add 2d3 mortals on a hit with your regular BS. Every unit in your roster with a missile launcher can contribute some reliable damage on top of your actual AA options.

[Charlo]

Don't forget to use the Flakk Missile stratagem to add 2d3 mortals on a hit with your regular BS. Every unit in your roster with a missile launcher can contribute some reliable damage on top of your actual AA options.

 

I suppose the issue is you need to bring a Missile Launcher!

 

Which is basically Scouts, Tacs or Devs (or Sternguard Vets?)

 

Though I think a cool tech-choice could be Scouts inside a Landspeeder Storm as some cheap defence.

[Captain Idaho]

Taking a Tactical squad as rear objective holder with Missile Launcher just for the Strategum is a useful strategy. I do the same with a Heavy Bolter Tactical squad just to use Hellfire Shells.

[Jorin Helm-splitter]

So this may be a controversial take but I don't think Marine lists really need to change anything. I like reading Goon Hammers Meta review articles, and in the most recent one they have a table comparing each fractions goes first win rate vs. it's goes second win rate. Admech win almost 70 percent of their games when they go first, and just under half of their games when they go second. 

 

I think a lot of it comes down to their planes, which have crazy damage output but are fragile. So I don't know if I'd be looking at any unit that starts on the table to try to counter them (your basically gambling on going first). Maybe having your specials spread out has some value, but I really think the 9th edition classic of devs in a pod is going to be one of the best answers.

 

Orks are a bit tamer than admech and I don't think the planes are as popular, but I think I would approach it from the same mindset. They also have a goes second win rate under 50%. 

 

For what its worth, I don't think the planes should have the damage output that they do and hopefully GW corrects that with some point increases or other nerfs.

[Medjugorje]

still rerolls from a chapter master and +1 to hit from another source like a chaplain or a techmarine and then mass shots is enough against each flyer.

[TheNewman]

Apparently the correct answer was "just wait a while, GW will nerf flyers."

[BloodyB]

Don't forget to use the Flakk Missile stratagem to add 2d3 mortals on a hit with your regular BS. Every unit in your roster with a missile launcher can contribute some reliable damage on top of your actual AA options.

Does this srat stack with the Armourium cherub? If so, taking a Devastator Squad with 4ML and a cherub and slamming 2 shots for 2d3 mortal each and an extra 3 missile launchers for good measure can be good as well.

[ValourousHeart]

Dark Angels have an interesting solution to flyers... a stratagem called Target Guidance.  For 2 CP select 1 enemy unit within 18" and visible to a Ravenwing Land Speeder or a Ravenwing Storm Speeder during the shooting phase.  All Dark Angels units that target that unit during that shooting phase get +1 to hit.

 

In my last 2 games, with the help of that stratagem, I took out a flyer in 1 game and a Knight in the other.  I highly recommend it.

[Dark Shepherd]

Aircraft have tended to be an awkward fit, or at best prone to abuse

 

Transport aircraft (in that role) werent a problem. Doubt they would be again especially if they had to hover to disgorge infantry