Which is the least popular Legion?

[LameBeard]

I can’t think of an instance in the Black Library novels.

 

I guess Luther-faction Dark Angels is a possibility, but they didn’t give a lot of in-universe room for who they’d be fighting and why. I guess in-universe evidence of loyalist legion forces following Horus is ruthlessly suppressed, and we don’t get to see those stories.

[Gamiel]

I can’t think of an instance in the Black Library novels.

 

I guess Luther-faction Dark Angels is a possibility, but they didn’t give a lot of in-universe room for who they’d be fighting and why. I guess in-universe evidence of loyalist legion forces following Horus is ruthlessly suppressed, and we don’t get to see those stories.

We also have at least the WS forces under Captain Hakeem in Garro

 

And nothing says that there can't be Horus sworn Ultramarines, Raven Guards, or similar.

 

I was more thinking on the table than in the books when I asked

Edited November 2, 2021 by Gamiel

[LameBeard]

Yes I know. I’m just making the connection that although the Red Books allow it, it’s often the novels which inspire the actual making of an army. And that’s a space that could be explored more.

 

Any frater with traitor Ultramarines, Fists, Salamanders etc - please post here!

[Gorgoff]

I can’t think of an instance in the Black Library novels.

The novel White Scar comes to mind immediately where a lot of the story is about these traitors.

[LameBeard]

I might read that novel, but I’m worried it will inspire me to start a White Scars traitor force (says the chap with 4 legions started but not even 500 points of one finished).

[Gorgoff]

I might read that novel, but I’m worried it will inspire me to start a White Scars traitor force (says the chap with 4 legions started but not even 500 points of one finished).

It will.

I might say it is one of the best HH novels I've read so far. They are portrait very nicely and seem to be an interesting bunch.

Before I read this novel I always saw them as a mock up mongol legion.

Way over the top for my liking.

But apparently they are not and they have a unique position in the whole spectrum of legion, which is nice as well.

[Bung]

Yes I know. I’m just making the connection that although the Red Books allow it, it’s often the novels which inspire the actual making of an army. And that’s a space that could be explored more.

 

Any frater with traitor Ultramarines, Fists, Salamanders etc - please post here!

The problem is, some fun stuff from loyalist Legions are locked in loyalist forces, like characters.

Same as WB are only traitors.

[LameBeard]

Yeah there are a few loyalist-only characters in the Traitor legions so would be good if we got a few mirror images. Maybe a challenge for the community! Does Captain Haakeem get an entry in the Black Book?

[Noserenda]

I've got a small traitor Salamanders force but I run them as blackshields :)

[Charlo]

You really don't see many Blood Angel armies around for HH.

 

I think it's because they're so close to 40k that its a little boring for some.

[Noserenda]

Yeah i sold my Blood angels company when they got fully flanderised in HH too, which was a big missed opportunity given how fully defined 40k BA are by the events of the Heresy, something the Salamanders suffer from in a different way, which might explain their lack of popularity?

Edited November 2, 2021 by Noserenda

[Spagunk]

You really don't see many Blood Angel armies around for HH.

 

I think it's because they're so close to 40k that its a little boring for some.

I specifically look at it as a means to challenge yourself with new ways to paint. My 40k BA don't look anything like my HH BA other than both being red and having blood drops.

[Lautrec the Embraced]

I kinda feel as if Ultramarines were amongst the most unpopular choices, at least in my area. Maybe not the most unpopular ones (from what i saw I'd nominate Iron Hands and Salamanders) but I'd say that being the poster boys for 40k isn't doing the Smurfmarines any favours in 30k.

 

On our glorious forum, we could get some quantifiable albeit skewed data by looking at number of views and replies for each legion's tactica:

 

Replies:

1. White Scars - 301
2. Salamanders - 632
3. Word Bearers - 743
4. Thousand Sons - 755
5. Ultramarines - 853
6. Dark Angels - 1067
7. Blood Angels - 1112

 

Views:

1. White Scars - 37k
2. Salamanders - 78k
3. Thousand Sons - 81k
4. Ultramarines - 83k
5. Blood Angels - 92k
6. Dark Angels - 96k
7. Word Bearers - 101k

You have to consider that by virtue of being released at different times it's hardly a fair comparison. So Angels are not doing bad considering 'recent' release while Scars are losers by a huge margin. Overall 'd say the least popular are:

 

1. Scars
2. Sallies
3. TSons
4. Ultras

Edited November 2, 2021 by Lautrec the Embraced

[LameBeard]

Nice data. Is that based on the HH tactics sub-forum?

[dicebod]

 

Just wondering, how often do you see traitor factions from Loyalist Legions? I know that olyalist factions from Traitor Legions are relativly populare but what about the other way around?

I've never seen that.

 

 

Yeah it seems like if folks want to go the route of "loyalists of dubious loyalty" they'll just go blackshields.

[Lord Marshal]

Fists in 30 k can be painted with less yellow, which may get more people interested to do an army.

 

I've seen more Neo-Black Templar Fist armies than I have pure yellow. 

[Noctus Cornix]

 

 

Trying to decide on a Legion to get started with again after a hobby slump. Have done several before (some threads here, lots more on @slowandpurposeless on Instagram), but want a fresh start.

 

And I do get motivated by underdog syndrome haha.

 

So, what's the least popular Legion? I'd figure Raven Guard or Salamanders, or maybe even Space Wolves, but I have limited horizons.

 

Also just bored working on a Sunday haha, so 50% here for just discussion.

 

All the best,

BTB

Didn't you do some really gorgeous Word Bearers back in the day?

 

Insane memory! Cheers and thank you, I had a long running Word Bearers project that kind of grinded to a halt with the change in base sizes, and just generally wanting to paint something different haha. Maybe it's time to go back!

 

Sick. I loved your Word Bearers and I can't wait to see what you come up with next, mate.

[Indefragable]

Regarding the lack of Traitor contingents of Loyalist factions…

 

…I think the the fact that every single Loyalist Legion was betrayed in some way adds a certain empathy to them. It’s hard to come up with a compelling narrative for why say Salamanders would go with Horus when you feel just how shattered they are from Isstvan…and even if they would leave the cause of the Imperium they would never side with those who so deceptively murdered their brethren. It’s precisely why Loyalist contingents of Traitor Lwgions, especially those from Isstvan III are so compelling: that righteous fury.

 

Hidden Content

Dark Angels: sent out of the galaxy as a means of keeping them in the dark only to have them ambushed by the Night Lords at Thramas

 

White Scars: the only Legion to actually weigh the evidence and choose a side….but even still as evidenced in the novels, the attempts to subvert he will of the Khan via the lodges still has elements of betrayal in it, as does the manner of the Alpha Legion’s covert campaign against them at Chondax

 

Space Wolves: being tricked into teamkilling another Legion doesn’t exactly make you sympathetic to the side that tricked you

 

Imperial Fists: having your entire Legion recalled to the throne world to defend it because you are considered particularly good at it and particularly Loyal doesn’t really provide ammo for flipping sides. While other forces feel betrayed or abandoned by the Emperor, you’re literally invited to his house drinking his whisky smoking his cigars. <Perturabo glowers>
 

Blood Angels: your dad’s best friend who he trusted implicitly decides to send your dad to literal hell. 
 

Iron Hands: your dad’s best friend tries to turn him and then cuts off his head when he doesn’t, all while facilitating a betrayal that sees most of your Legion dead and your fellow Legions to pieces. 
 

Ultramarines: you get Space Pearl Harbored

 

Salamanders: Isstvan

 

Raven Guard: Isstvan

 

 

That’s not to say we can’t come up with reasons for Traitors-from-Loyalists, but it’s just that much harder to justify or be inspired by…..and this hobby is expensive enough.

 

As others have said, that’s why it’s “easier” to do Blackshields or renegades from Loyalists than out-and-out Traitors. Aka Ashen Claws or Nemean Reaver et al.

Edited November 5, 2021 by Indefragable

[Gamiel]

Regarding the lack of Traitor contingents of Loyalist factions…

 

…I think the the fact that every single Loyalist Legion was betrayed in some way adds a certain empathy to them. It’s hard to come up with a compelling narrative for why say Salamanders would go with Horus when you feel just how shattered they are from Isstvan…and even if they would leave the cause of the Imperium they would never side with those who so deceptively murdered their brethren. It’s precisely why Loyalist contingents of Traitor Lwgions, especially those from Isstvan III are so compelling: that righteous fury.

 

Hidden Content

Dark Angels: sent out of the galaxy as a means of keeping them in the dark only to have them ambushed by the Night Lords at Thramas

 

White Scars: the only Legion to actually weigh the evidence and choose a side….but even still as evidenced in the novels, the attempts to subvert he will of the Khan via the lodges still has elements of betrayal in it, as does the manner of the Alpha Legion’s covert campaign against them at Chondax

 

Space Wolves: being tricked into teamkilling another Legion doesn’t exactly make you sympathetic to the side that tricked you

 

Imperial Fists: having your entire Legion recalled to the throne world to defend it because you are considered particularly good at it and particularly Loyal doesn’t really provide ammo for flipping sides. While other forces feel betrayed or abandoned by the Emperor, you’re literally invited to his house drinking his whisky smoking his cigars. <Perturabo glowers>

 

Blood Angels: your dad’s best friend who he trusted implicitly decides to send your dad to literal hell. 

 

Iron Hands: your dad’s best friend tries to turn him and then cuts off his head when he doesn’t, all while facilitating a betrayal that sees most of your Legion dead and your fellow Legions to pieces. 

 

Ultramarines: you get Space Pearl Harbored

 

Salamanders: Isstvan

 

Raven Guard: Isstvan

 

 

That’s not to say we can’t come up with reasons for Traitors-from-Loyalists, but it’s just that much harder to justify or be inspired by…..and this hobby is expensive enough.

 

As others have said, that’s why it’s “easier” to do Blackshields or renegades from Loyalists than out-and-out Traitors. Aka Ashen Claws or Nemean Reaver et al.

The easiest reason I can think of is that they were turned to Horus side before the big traumatic event and now have made their bed. Or just consider daddy stupid for not siding with Horus and deserving what he got

[Mogsam]

Having been to alot of heresy events lately (all rescheduled after the pandemic at basically the same time), the ones I've seen the least are:

 

Sons of Horus

Word Bearers

Space Wolves

Salamanders

Iron Hands

Raven Guard

Blood Angels

Ultramarines

 

Never really seen many of the buggered by Istivaan legions knocking around. It's a hard fluff sell after most of your Legion is dead and when you do see them, they're all very similar lists.

 

Sons of Horus seem to come and go a bit. Not really sure why they're not that popular! Might just be the age of the Legion and lack of updates.

 

Space Wolves and Word Bearers have the same inherent issue, because you have to take certain units, people seem to avoid them. I've looked at Space Wolves a few times but 3 characters at 3k is alot for me.

 

Blood Angels and Ultramarines crop up, but they're not massively common. I see more Blood Angels than I do Ultras.

 

There was one event with three Salamanders at, I played against all of them and they all used the same RoW!

 

It's a shame there aren't more loyalists that turn traitor. Quite often it's just the Dark Angels or WS players that get flipped over of there's not enough traitors!

[Noserenda]

I mean there is plenty of good reasons for Loyalists to side with Horus, exactly the same reasons all the Traitors took for one thing, plus Lodges, long term secondments or cooperation or personal grudges against their Primarchs/leadership. 

For example my traitor Salamanders are formed around a core of Terrans who were horrified by Vulkans changes to the legion when they came back from a Expedition fleet which was a mix of them and Luna Wolves and pulled strings to keep themselves off and away from the main Legion wherever possible, often alongside the Sons of Horus with whom they had built a strong bond. When the Heresy came they sided with Horus without hesitation and turned their guns on their "brothers" at the dropsite massacre with little hesitation, before striking their colours and taking up the Eye of Horus instead.

I use blackshields because i think that represents a force that has rejected their Legion culture and is in a bit of a tight spot regards logistics better :) 

[Lucien Eilam]

It’s not hard to justify for creative types but I think a lot of hobbyists, maybe the majority, look to Black Library and the black books for inspiration, and there are very few direct examples.

 

Besides the Scars thing and the Dark Angels it’s like… Alastor Rushal? I guess at this point we’re only going to find out exactly what his deal was if A D-B picks up Sevatar’s post-Heresy career. And then maybe a handful of footnotes scattered across 9 volumes of the black books. I’m sure a lot of people have completely missed that it’s possible.

 

I think a couple of colour plates over the years, a short story or two, a few more minor characters in the novels, etc. would all have gone a long way.

[Indefragable]

Yes, it's not hard to come up with a backstory for why dudes from a Loyalist Legion would go Traitor...

 

...but that doesn't mean its enough to inspire someone to put the time and energy into manifesting it on the tabletop.

 

Case in point: I have ideas for both Traitor Ultramarines and Traitor Blood Angels contingents, but especially as my time to play decreases those ideas become less and less worth the time, money, and energy especially if I'm going to run My Dudes from BA 99.9% of the time I'm going to want to run them as Loyalists. 

 

That's what I am getting at: the ideas are easy, the motivation to actually go all the way is not as strong as other sources for the majority of people.

[AlexisSonOfDorn]

White Scars pretty easily, even after their rules/models were released. A combination of them always being one of the least popular Legions even after Chris Wraight gave them a much needed time in the sun, coupled with running their army in the iconic manner (jetbike focus) being extremely expensive in terms of real-world moolah, in a game that's already very expensive to collect. 

 

After them I'd probably say Iron Hands, more so because they've never really been in-focus that much beyond "their Primarch died early into the Heresy" and if people want to play seething, mechanically-inclined gits there's Iron Warriors over there already.

 

I see a surprising amount of Raven Guard on tables, which seems disproportionate to how 'quiet' their fanbase often seems. Salamanders appear on the lower end of the popularity scale but they're definitely not uncommon. Spaces Wolves do seem a lot less popular when compared to 40k but like Salamanders they show up often enough that they don't feel rare.

 

Now that I think about it, I don't feel like there's an unpopular Traitor Legion in terms of table presence. Emperor's Children maybe? But even then, calling them unpopular would probably be pushing it. 

White Scars are only expensive from FW, no need to ever go that route. Recasters are our friends and keep costs for the game reasonable. That paint job is also super simple with an airbrush, zenithal highlighting all the way. 

[Silas7]

Another potential factor to scars being unpopular is the scheme. White is daunting to paint for most people, and you don't quite have the fallback that world eaters do of being covered in grit and blood that can help offset things.

 

Also you know, being last to get their primarch and having mechanically disfunctional rules on won't help either.

I'd like to add that imo the mongol theme doesn't come off as interesting to most players.

 

Edit: Any XX love?

Edited November 24, 2021 by Silas7