The Wolftime Review Thread

[Knockagh]

Pretty sure D.C. is right the big plot is certainly the Tenebrus and the Bucharis artifact. When did eisehorn die? ( I jest…sort of…) The weapon, the language of beginnings and ending. The existence of the dark imperium trilogy means there is nothing huge huge huge that can happen, which shows how poorly thought out that trilogy was.

One thing this book did was to make me hate prima marines a little bit more. There are just too many

[Noserenda]

It makes sense that the Dawn of Fire series will hit up most if not all the factions across its run, id expect every book to have Imperial protagonists, and they have already covered a lot of Imperial factions that way; then Chaos forces form the primary antagonists of the series, (And i would expect a bit of tie in to next years rumoured large chaos releases) who again have a fair few potential factions to cover; then each Xeno race gets a book as an antagonist and some side roles like the Eldar helping Guiliman.

After all this Crusade is meant to parallel the Great Crusade and that involved a lot of xenos as well as broadening/deepening the background of the new 9th ed status quo.

My personal wish list is seeing some Sisters of Silence in the Pariah nexus because i still cant believe they (afaik) never confirmed the affect it has on untouchables but i suspect not much.

[DukeLeto69]

I'm pretty sure the author of the second book was already assigned and working on it before the first one was out on the market so I don't believe there's momentum/sales lost. They need to involve new writers (Rath, Crowley, etc) and stop getting Abnett into every single project. As much as I love Wraight, I'm perfectly fine if he stays out of this series and he can focus on finishing his trilogies. ADB also has plenty to finish.

 

If anything, GW/BL needs to look into their marketing department. If they want the DoF as big as the HH, why the heck isn't this series even advertised on their websites? (the third book has a banner on BL but it's because it just came out, before that, there was nothing). I remember seeing the first HH novels often advertised outside of WH only related sites/channels. Why aren't sci-fi magazines, book reviewers, youtubers, etc getting copies to promote it? Every other publisher does that.

Of course Andy Clark would have been locked in early in the process. My point is that I suspect (but do not know) that he is not one of the big selling authors. I would be surprised (though happy to be wrong) if Gate of Bones sold as many copies as Avenging Son. Why? Because Haley is almost certainly a bigger seller than Clark (again I am not making reference to writing ability).

 

Personally I have no problem with other authors getting the gigs (and some if the newer authors are damn good) but there is speculation that sales of this series may be falling short and that this might be causing a rethink on scale of the series (we will see).

 

Sales will be down to three factors; Interest in the series, popularity of the author, marketing.

[Kenzaburo]

To be honest, marketing at BL has been a problem for quite some time - which is surprising, as they did a better job at that during the early heresy. For all I know BL would even benefit, if they adapted some regular marketing standards of GW prime. 

 

It's actually highly advisable since they broadened their portfolio with crime and horror. 

 

But a bit more on topic: Ever since Book 1 was released, the subsequent books have been advertised less and less. Which is a shame, since content, coordination and overall quality seems to be quite good, tbh.

[Lord Nord in Gravis Armour]

 

 

The series was originally announced as 9 books so we will see what's going to happen. Personally, I'm enjoying it and I hope the sales of paperbacks are decent for BL to finish the series. Plus the move to offer LE along with general release was a great move.

 

Some retailers already have the 4th book listed and Haley is mentioned as the author.

 

I'm aware that there was some chatter at the time about the series being nine books long, but I don't believe that was ever *officially* announced anywhere. Last I knew, the only place people were able to point to as "confirmation" of that was Amazon's listing for Avenging Son.

 

And let's face it, Amazon's been wrong more than once. For that, you need look no further than their listing for The Gate of Bones, which can't decide whether it's "book 2 of 3" or part of a "Mega-series."

 

If you have an official source, I'd really like to see it.

 

As for Haley writing Book 4, well as I said we can expect him to acknowledge the Hexarchy uprising and probably announce Morvenn Vahl's ascendancy in that book. I just really hope this doesn't lead to Wraight being pressured to write book three of both Vaults of Terra and Watchers of the Throne to accomodate this now-canon three-year jump in the timeline that he clearly never intended. I am sure book 3 of Vaults was largely meant to take place concurrently with the Hexarchy crisis, so that would suddenly need to jump forward three years as well. Hopefully he'll be allowed to just ignore it.

 

 

The chatter was from an article on "Warhammer Community" page directly but has been since removed/edited; or at least I'm not able to look it up anymore and the search function on that website is atrocious. Not the first time they would edit one of their articles. Often in case they reveal something they aren't supposed to or mess up (upcoming books leaked and few hours later edited out, audiobooks announced but no such thing is coming out, people point it out on BL FB and suddenly the article is quickly edited).

 

Also, the synopsis/publishing date info retailers get directly from GW who supplies it to the retailers' catalogs, it's written by GW not by the individual retailers and bookstores. Amazon isn't the only retailer who received the info directly from GW the Avenging Son is the first book of the 9 part mega-series. GW can edit their articles but hell no they are going to provide updated info to all retailers in case they decided to scrap the idea o 9 novels. Same with the publishing dates, it's not retailers and bookstores having incorrect dates, GW simply doesn't bother updating them about re-scheduling.

 

*edit: just received my copy, excited to dig in. It's not always you see people posting positive reviews of Gav's work.

 

 

Going to have to take issue with your memory on this one.

 

First off, I do hope you had a great Thanksgiving or whatever your local equivalent may. Nothing here should be taken as any kind of personal attack - to the degree that I've been aware of your presence on this forum, I don't remember ever getting any impression that you were arguing in bad faith. I'm sure you remember things exactly as you say.

 

BUT... the chatter in question DEFINITELY came from the Amazon listing, not from GW's announcements. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying GW WOULDN'T change an article like you suggest. They've done it multiple times.

 

I'm just saying they DIDN'T do that in this case.

 

How do I know? Well, there is the fact that I just had a very clear memory of how it went down because I was actually excited for the Dawn of Fire series. I'm sure you were as well, but in my case it was basically THE project Black Library is involved with that grabbed me at the time. I could remember the discussion the day of the announcment quite clearly. And I remembered distinctly that no discussion of it being a nine-book series happened prior to the Amazon listing being referenced.

 

Fortunately, we don't have to play "duelling memories" on this.

 

We can go to the videotape!

 

In this case, "the videotape" isn't a dubiously-edited article or series of articles from GW. No, it's the live reaction thread on this very forum - which you took part in - whose entire purpose was to discuss the Dawn of Fire announcement.

 

On that thread, in the immediate post-announcement discussion which starts of the forum, there is ZERO mention of a defined length of the series and certainly nothing about it being nine books in total.

 

In fact, the "chatter" about DoF being a nine-book series didn't begin until halfway down page FIVE, when Roomsky chimed in to mention it...

 

...and the source he referenced WAS the Amazon listing.

 

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/364072-dawn-of-fire-the-series/?p=5533693

 

Prior to that point, nobody - including you, who posted as early as page one - was chattering about a nine-book length for the series. And no one reacted to Roomsky's post as if it was something that had been previously mentioned in a GW announcement. It was 100% new information to this thread.

 

As to the Amazon listing coming straight from GW, yes I'm sure it was a GW employee or contingent staffer who filled out the submission widget. But there very well may have been a "series" toggle that trapped them into giving a finite number as to series length before they could actually submit the form without an error message. And where they pulled the number nine from is a discussion that may well involve body cavities that are better left unmentioned.

 

That's all I've got. Again, nothing personal meant here, but I stick by my earlier claim that GW never officially announced Dawn of Fire as a nine-book series and that they were certainly hoping to milk it for fifteen or more books. I also absolutely stick to my conclusion that The Wolftime was originally written to take place only a few months after The Gate of Bones and shows ample evidence of being rewritten to take place three years later due to decisions made from on high to chop the series length down in light of its relative sales cratering in comparison to the Heresy and Siege books.

[Kelborn]

Do we have a clue when the German/ French translation will be released?

Seen March 2022 on Amazon but wanted to be sure.

[theSpirea]

The info came straight from Simon & Schuster who is the GW's distributor and was listed directly in their catalog, not on the e-shop website. People often use Amazon because it's easy to look up books on their website and it's well-known so, in a way, considered "reliable". They don't go in and come up with random info stating the book X or Z is a part of X/Y series. Again, they receive the synopsis directly from GW. Often the distributor receives ISBN info but it's not allowed to list any further details even in their catalog until a certain date given by the publisher. This is often reserved for major releases the publisher wants to announce but the ISNB, etc info is provided to distributors in advance, usually way before the publisher even acknowledges the existence of the said book to general public. This is my experience from this industry as I have worked with a few publishers and distributors in the past on their catalogs.

 

The easy explanation could be the synopsis was provided way before GW announced the series (the video you mentioned), but the distributor already had that info months before, and in the meantime, GW decided to change their plans, decided they don't want to provide the exact number of the books in the series, so they can adjust it further on as they need to, etc. That's all perfectly fine.

 

However, once GW announced the book, distributor was allowed to display the book in their catalog (and S&S catalog is public) and later on e-shops, but GW didn't correct the synopsis with them. No one from Amazon goes into this manually and adds random info. It's all automated and they simply post what they receive; either from distributor (who receives it from GW) or directly from GW. None of these companies are changing and adjusting it. And it wasn't/isn't only Amazon. There are tens, if not hundreds of e-shops with the same exact copy-paste synopsis. I think you have to agree it would be very strange all these companies (in the US, UK, AU, NZ) would post the same info.

 

I'm fairly certain GW doesn't have a template that forces GW intern to fill in random number of the series. Majority of the books are standalones, such system wouldn't work. If there was such template, we would have seen the exact same phrasing "## part mega-series" previously.

 

We can argue semantics whether "officially" means GW providing the info to the distributor but later changing it or the official announcement done by GW.

 

Now, this is taking the thread way off-topic, I just wanted to provide some insight info (from different publishers/distributors) how it works and what could explain this discrepancy. If mods deem it necessary to delete the post, please do so.

[Petitioner's City]

The info came straight from Simon & Schuster who is the GW's distributor and was listed directly in their catalog, not on the e-shop website. People often use Amazon because it's easy to look up books on their website and it's well-known so, in a way, considered "reliable". They don't go in and come up with random info stating the book X or Z is a part of X/Y series. Again, they receive the synopsis directly from GW. Often the distributor receives ISBN info but it's not allowed to list any further details even in their catalog until a certain date given by the publisher. This is often reserved for major releases the publisher wants to announce but the ISNB, etc info is provided to distributors in advance, usually way before the publisher even acknowledges the existence of the said book to general public. This is my experience from this industry as I have worked with a few publishers and distributors in the past on their catalogs.

 

The easy explanation could be the synopsis was provided way before GW announced the series (the video you mentioned), but the distributor already had that info months before, and in the meantime, GW decided to change their plans, decided they don't want to provide the exact number of the books in the series, so they can adjust it further on as they need to, etc. That's all perfectly fine.

 

However, once GW announced the book, distributor was allowed to display the book in their catalog (and S&S catalog is public) and later on e-shops, but GW didn't correct the synopsis with them. No one from Amazon goes into this manually and adds random info. It's all automated and they simply post what they receive; either from distributor (who receives it from GW) or directly from GW. None of these companies are changing and adjusting it. And it wasn't/isn't only Amazon. There are tens, if not hundreds of e-shops with the same exact copy-paste synopsis. I think you have to agree it would be very strange all these companies (in the US, UK, AU, NZ) would post the same info.

 

I'm fairly certain GW doesn't have a template that forces GW intern to fill in random number of the series. Majority of the books are standalones, such system wouldn't work. If there was such template, we would have seen the exact same phrasing "## part mega-series" previously.

 

We can argue semantics whether "officially" means GW providing the info to the distributor but later changing it or the official announcement done by GW.

 

Now, this is taking the thread way off-topic, I just wanted to provide some insight info (from different publishers/distributors) how it works and what could explain this discrepancy. If mods deem it necessary to delete the post, please do so.

But Lord Nord is right still on when we learned it, including it being from Amazon as discovered by roomsky, not from whc as you said. You could say "yes, you are right, I misremembered" :) it's not "semantics", it's about admitting one's mistakes and being responsible (and accurate). Edited December 3, 2021 by Petitioner's City

[DarkChaplain]

Now that's a patronizing reply if I've ever seen one...

[nagashnee]

 

The question is, what is the focus of the (rest) of the series? If it is the crusade, then it can literally go anywhere before the plague wars and fight anyone on the way.

Dark Imperium seems to clearly focus on Guilliman and Mortarion's invasion of Ultramar.

 

Dawn of Fire by contrast seems much less focussed. It seems to be trying to give each race a quick visit to show how they are coping in the galaxy following the opening of the great rift. The Crusade setting is quite good for this as it allows the action to hop across the Galaxy visiting all sorts of locations and known characters. If that is all the series is, it will be OK but nothing special. I am hoping that the threads of the novels will start to be tied together into a bigger picture with implications going forwards. I guess we will have to wait and see. I enjoy Haley's writing and if he is overseeing the lore now, it will be interesting to see how he paints a picture on a larger canvas.

 

You could argue the opossite too tho, if its purpose is to show how each race is doing in the new era, why limit yourself by having it all framed thru the lense of an imperial crusade? Why not just throw a generic series name 'i.e' space marine battles and then give each race 1-2-3 books that does just that. With them all having as much contact or crossrefrences as you want/naturally occur. But if say book 7 is the eldar book but to really enjoy/experience it you need books 1-6 or worse just 'skip' all the imperial parts then that a poor book for an eldar fan. Likewise for me as a mech player, i would MUCH rather 1-2 dedicated books then scattered the lore little by little in a 8 book series. 

[Karhedron]

You could argue the opossite too tho, if its purpose is to show how each race is doing in the new era, why limit yourself by having it all framed thru the lense of an imperial crusade?

Because Marines have always been GW's headline faction. Plus there have been lots of demands from fans to see how different factions are coping with their new Primaris intake. Telling a series of Marines vs X storiesd allows them to kill 2 birds with one literary stone.

[nagashnee]

 

You could argue the opossite too tho, if its purpose is to show how each race is doing in the new era, why limit yourself by having it all framed thru the lense of an imperial crusade?

Because Marines have always been GW's headline faction. Plus there have been lots of demands from fans to see how different factions are coping with their new Primaris intake. Telling a series of Marines vs X storiesd allows them to kill 2 birds with one literary stone.

 

So because marine fans want it? Cause i have never heard a xenos player go 'i wonder what necrons think of primaris, eldar, orks,tau, etc'.  Cause you use the word factions but only 1 faction had primaris intakes. marines. Just 1.

[Karhedron]

 

Because Marines have always been GW's headline faction. Plus there have been lots of demands from fans to see how different factions are coping with their new Primaris intake. Telling a series of Marines vs X storiesd allows them to kill 2 birds with one literary stone.

So because marine fans want it? Cause i have never heard a xenos player go 'i wonder what necrons think of primaris, eldar, orks,tau, etc'.  Cause you use the word factions but only 1 faction had primaris intakes. marines. Just 1.

 

I am not writing the books. I am just trying to speculate about GW's reasons for writing them the way that they have been.

[jaxom]

I have a suspicion that the third Black Legion book will be a springboard for post-Cadia chaos stories.

[Kelborn]

Back to topic, guys.

[DarkChaplain]

Am I the only one who thinks Dawn of Fire's purpose is to, you know, tell the story of the early years of the Indomitus Crusade, instead of being an on-rails tour to show faction x and y?

Even the "how does Chapter X cope with Primaris" subject isn't central to Dawn of Fire. It's highlighted in The Wolftime because it can be used to progress the plot of the Wolves alongside escalating the threat levels - and if we remember, there's been a pretty loud part of the fandom complaining since 8th that the Imperium "won" by getting Primaris, ignoring that things are just as bad if not worse than before. The Wolftime coming in to reaffirm the Ork Menace as a dire threat - to the point of linking back to The Beast Arises, reconciling the Wolves "following" Guilliman and presenting the token-Primaris introduction to a stubborn, dismissive Chapter all at once. It's giving an example of how things might not go as smoothly as with the Ultramarines successors or those of the Imperial Fists.

 

For Chapter-specific stories, we still have Space Marine Conquests and other books - a lot of which have already tackled that subject in the first place. The one featuring the Wolves, however, did not. It touched Primaris in one of the first chapters of the novel, then didn't even mention them for the entire rest of the book. There was a gap there, which was no conveniently filled. But Dark Angels, Blood Angels, Flesh Tearers, Imperial Fists, Raven Guard, they've all been covered in some capacity over the past 4 years already. We don't need more of it in Dawn of Fire.

 

Of course the series will establish facts about the state of the galaxy after the Rift opens -  but it is still supposed to present a core narrative. If we speculate on the supposed 9 books for the series, we've only just shut the opening stages presenting the setup: Establishing the Indomitus Crusade, establishing the antagonists and threat and now, with The Wolftime, showing the politics involved in linking up with the Old Guard of the Adeptus Astartes while seeking answers about the foe.

 

Mentions of Bucharis are all over the book - this is the ongoing plotline, not window-shopping Primaris adoption or how the Tau feel about bigger Space Marines. They might still get a moment in the sun, but that'll likely be because Haley believes it can serve the overarching plot, not because he wants to tick a faction box.

[Gamiel]

In which story was Raven Guards covered?

[DarkChaplain]

They were one of the three stars of Josh Reynolds' Apocalypse, alongside White Scars and Imperial Fists.

[Kelborn]

Which is easily the best out of the Conquest series, imho.

 

Scars, Ravens, Fists and Bearers without a single one of them getting the short end.

 

A brilliant one that is and it's even better when narrated by Richard Reed.

 

If you haven't, go get it. It deals with way more than simple "bolter porn". And the twist is worth a chef's kiss.

[Jorin Helm-splitter]

Finally got the book today.... and I think it's safe to say its Gav's best marine book. I don't think it's as good as Chris Wraight's books, but I do think it's a lot better than ashes was. The ideal of a chapter master not being comfortable with owing a debt to a different chapter's primarch was handled well. There were some parts where the pacing felt awkward, and I do think that Logan's change of heart didn't really feel earned. It's also doubtful that Guilliman really needed the wolves help with the shape they were in. I don't see this as a major failing on Gav's part it's really tough to find a balancing point to justify everyone's positions.

 

The only thing about the book that really bugs me is the Dragonspears. They're presented as firstborn that aren't aware of Primaris which is kinda weird for an Ultima founding chapter. Their main purpose seems to be, allowing Gav to make a joke about Krom Dragongaze finding it funny to ally with a chapter named the Dragonspears. If they had any real impact on the story, it wouldn't have bugged me. They were mentioned in Saga of the Beast, so I think he just name dropped them without knowing they were an ultima founding, because that wasn't mentioned until the 9th edition book. That said I remember part of the goal of the dawn of fire series was to have the GW studio and Black library on the same page. It's not a big deal and it probably annoys me more than it should.  

 

That said I like his primaris characters. I would recommend this book to space wolf fans who are looking for something new to read if they've read all of the chris wraight stuff, and the Ragnar novella that ADB wrote. I don't think there were any major revelations that moved the Dawn of Fire story forward, so if your not a fan of Space Wolves I think you can skip it. 

 

  

[sitnam]

I'm about 60% into the book and enjoying it so far, despite absolutely hating the Space Wolves (been this way since Burning of Prospero). Despite not liking that chapter, the different perspectives of the chapter characters is interesting, as is the process of seeing Primaris integrated in real time. War of Secrets tried something similar and that book was an absolute failure to me
 

Edited December 17, 2021 by sitnam

[Pariah32]

So finished this the other day and I must say this was better than expected. I understood why Gav and Guy wanted to tell this story, though like many others here have said already, it does not drive the main plot forward enough and thus could of benefitted being part of some other series.

 

I loved all the story and world building elements set on Fenris, I feel Gav really gets the space wolves tonally. Logans apprehension and distrust was justifiably played out, though for me his end decision came about abit too abruptly and was not entirely believable.

 

Gaius was great as was Gytha there journey was the highlight for me, though I do love Fenris anytime an author goes back there and does it justice.

 

The plot with Mudire And Vychellon was nothing more than a side story with teases of what's to come though interesting, felt a little lacking.

 

Overall I enjoyed it and would recommend it to any space wolf fan as well as, for those wishing for a little tease on the forward plot for the Dawn of Fire series.

Edited December 21, 2021 by Pariah32

[Ubiquitous1984]

Does anyone have any theories about the female turncoat Commissar? I'm not that well read in 40K lore - is a human working alongside the Orks believable in the setting? Who could it be + what are the future implications (if any) of it?

[cheywood]

Does anyone have any theories about the female turncoat Commissar? I'm not that well read in 40K lore - is a human working alongside the Orks believable in the setting? Who could it be + what are the future implications (if any) of it?

I don’t think there are any implications. Orks frequently enslave humans and put them to work. The Beast Arises has a few examples, most prominently in Guymer’s Last Son of Dorn I think. More recently there’s Prisoners of WAAAGH! from Justin Woolley which is a whole novella about being an ork slave/prisoner.

Edited December 21, 2021 by cheywood

[theSpirea]

Finally got around reading this beast! I'm approximately half way done and it's growing on me. I struggled a bit with the beginning, there were too many plot points dropped for 50+ pages, but it's all slowly coming together.

 

I wish GW/BL kicked off the whole Primaris thing with this series. I'd say it does a solid job introducing Primaris. Gaius is my boy. The scenes with him and Ullr are one of the best in the book and I can't help it but root for him.

 

And there's Mudir. He sounds like Haley was writing those parts, especially the scenes Vychellan. I hope I will be able to finish it over the weekend and read all the spoilers here (still avoiding them).